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SlowwHand is offline SlowwHand
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Sep 1999
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And who does it hurt? Iraqi people.

Red Cross May Cut Back After Iraqi Blasts

By ALEXANDER G. HIGGINS
Oct 27, 2003 11:40 AM EST

The international Red Cross said Monday it is considering cutting back its operations in Iraq after a bomb attack on its Baghdad headquarters that shook the neutral Swiss-run organization.

The attack killed two Iraqi employees of the International Committee of the Red Cross and as many as 10 other people outside the agency's compound, said agency spokesman Florian Westphal.

"Such an attack is a major blow for us," Westphal told The Associated Press. "It's a big shock. It is obviously impossible to move onto a normal day's business, so we really have to step back and take stock."

United Nations aid agencies also reacted with shock, but said it was unlikely their operations would be affected: They already had cut back to skeleton staffs because of the Aug. 19 truck bombing of U.N. headquarters in Baghdad.

Several ICRC employees were slightly injured inside the compound, Westphal said.

He said ICRC officials in Baghdad and at the Geneva headquarters were reviewing operations.

"It's too early for us at the moment to say how this attack will impact on our activities," Westphal said. "We will have a fairly clear idea within the next few days how we want to proceed."

He said much of the ICRC operation focuses on the agency's visits to prisoners held by coalition forces and the Iraqi police - a main part of the agency's mandate under the Geneva Conventions on warfare and occupation.

It also offers emergency medical aid in conjunction with the Iraqi Red Crescent, provides water and sanitation and educates Iraqis on how to avoid land mines and other explosives left over from warfare.

Westphal said that weeks ago the agency had received "unspecified warnings that we may at one stage or another be the targets of an attack," but added that the ICRC didn't know who would want to target the organization.

The warnings had been "relayed" to the ICRC, Westphal said.

"They were not in any way specific and it was really impossible to read too much into that except obviously that the situation is extremely difficult and dangerous," he added.

Last August the ICRC disclosed that it had received warnings of a threat and said it had been cutting back on its staff since a Sri Lankan staffer was killed July 22 south of Baghdad.

U.N. agencies, which scaled back their operations following the August attack, saw Monday's bombing as another assault on the very people trying to help Iraqis.

"Everybody is quite shaken about another attack on a humanitarian agency and a close partner," said Ron Redmond, spokesman for the U.N. High Commissioner for Refugees in Geneva.

Most of the foreign staff have remained outside Iraq since the August attack, whose 23 victims included the top U.N. envoy to Iraq, Sergio Vieira de Mello.

But spokeswoman Fadela Chaib of the World Health Organization said, "We are seriously concerned about the consequences, not only in terms of loss of life but also in terms of reducing further the international presence in the country."

Christiane Berthiaume of the World Food Program said her agency would be able to continue its distribution of food in Iraq because it is mostly handled by a network of 44,000 Iraqi agents.

The ICRC was the main international relief organization to maintain operations in Baghdad and Basra during the U.S.-led invasion earlier this year, keeping six international staffers and several dozen Iraqis to provide help to hospitals.

"We have been in Iraq since 1980," said Westphal.

The ICRC, which provided relief during the Iran-Iraq war and the Gulf War, currently has 30-40 international staff and several hundred Iraqis working for it throughout the country, Westphal said.

"This attack yet again primarily hurts Iraqis, which is the particular tragedy, be it our staff or others who happened to be in this area," Westphal said.

Pekka is offline Pekka
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Feb 2002
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  Old Post 27-10-2003 23:03
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Yep.. hurts only the people of Iraq.. Unfortunately for the resistance in Iraq, they don't have enough support to launch bigger operations, and they are not strong enough. So, when thinking about their cause, this strike was for nothing, but waste of lives.

SlowwHand is offline SlowwHand
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A waste of innocent lives.
People trying to help their dumb asses.

chegitz guevara is offline chegitz guevara
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Jun 2000
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  Old Post 27-10-2003 23:17 Visit chegitz guevara's homepage!
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Everyone knows the RC is off-limits. The question is, is it the Ba'athists of al-Qaeda that's doing this?

Spiffor is offline Spiffor
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  Old Post 27-10-2003 23:22
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Suicide attacks hint to Islamist groups IMHO.

Dis is offline Dis
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  Old Post 27-10-2003 23:33 Visit Dis's homepage!
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This is very terrible.

The U.S. really should leave.

Kropotkin is offline Kropotkin
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  Old Post 27-10-2003 23:40
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Yeah, this is a good question. I don't think we're getting enough information about who are actually doing these attacks. It was stated that the one they caught alive was a syrian. As Spiffor just pointed out, it seems islamistic. Who are the coalition forces fighting? Is it local and regional groups or international islamistic groups or both?

Q Cubed is offline Q Cubed
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Apr 1999
time: 23:31
  Old Post 27-10-2003 23:42 Visit Q Cubed's homepage!
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[angry lang man]ok, please.

it's islamist, not islamistic. and wtf came up with "terroristic" as an adjective?[/end]

Oerdin is offline Oerdin
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  Old Post 27-10-2003 23:47
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quote:
Originally posted by Spiffor
This is terrible.

The Iraqi guerilla definitely is organised. Apparently, it is hard to find people hiding in the sprawling Baghdad, and they use it to their advantage.


Spiffor: Supposedly most of the terrorists aren't Iraqi. At least that's what the Iraqi civilians are claiming; they say it's mostly Syrians and Saudis who are acting like terrorists while the locals just want to put their lives back together.

If I understand correctly they police have foiled several attempted car bombings and they even captured a few Syrians who were attempting to pull of the car bombing. I really do blame the state controlled media in Syria and Saudi Arabia which spend virtually every night attacking Israel/the US/the UK and inciting people to become terrorists and to attack the infedels.

Oerdin is offline Oerdin
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  Old Post 28-10-2003 00:18
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quote:
Originally posted by SlowwHand
A waste of innocent lives.
People trying to help their dumb asses.


Slow: You are wrong. The Red Cross workers are trying to help Iraqis ergo most Iraqis want the aid agencies there. Foreign Islamic militants want every nonmuslim person and organization out of Iraq and trying to bring that about his the fundimentalists' cause du jour.

Chemical Ollie is offline Chemical Ollie
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  Old Post 28-10-2003 00:23
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Attacking UN and the Red Cross are crimes of war according to a recent resolution.

Shi Huangdi is offline Shi Huangdi
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Apr 1999
time: 00:31
  Old Post 28-10-2003 00:30
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34 are dead and you are blowing off steam Mr.Fun?

This is really terrible, it is really sad to see the Iraqi people become such victims of terror.

Ned is offline Ned
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Oct 1999
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  Old Post 28-10-2003 00:31
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According to a dark haired, bespeckled, makeupless "peace activist" who just appeared on CNN to comment on yesterday's march on Washington, the solution to Iraq would be for the Unites States to pull out now and turn Iraq over to the UN. According to her, the attacks on the UN and other international agencies are solely motivated by their "perceived" support of the American occupation. She said that once the UN was in charge, Saddam would surrender, or at least stop fighting, and support a democratic regime in Baghdad.

Really?

Dis is offline Dis
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it could work...

Spiffor is offline Spiffor
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  Old Post 28-10-2003 00:41
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quote:
Originally posted by Ned
Really?

It is completely delusional to believe that an immediate withdrawal from Iraq by the US forces will be any helpful to the Iraqis.

If the UN took over the process with the US firepower, it wouldn't change much for the Iraqis, except that their wealth would be a tad less sucked by foreign companies, and would be much less sucked by American companies. A UN-sponsored regime may potentially also be more independent in the end, and result in a government that listens more to the wishes of the population than to those of Washington.

But there would be no immediate changes to what the Iraqis are experiencing. Things would most probably be even worse if the UN couldn't rely on US firepower.

Stopping the occupation now is the best way for a restauration of Saddam, or for the arrival of the civil war

Ned is offline Ned
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  Old Post 28-10-2003 00:48
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Spiffor, I agree. But I was waiting for the reporter to ask the "peace" activist how she knew the fighting would stop if the US withdrew. He never did.

But that was the tenor of yesterday's march on Washington - an immediate US pullout. It also seems that most of the Democrat candidates are now leaning that way since only two of the nine support the 87 billion, including 20 billion aid, for Iraq.

Dis is offline Dis
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  Old Post 28-10-2003 00:53 Visit Dis's homepage!
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What's wrong with Saddam Husseing getting back into power?

The whole point of removing him was for violating U.N. sanctions and possessing womd. But it appears there were no womd.

Yes I know what would happen in real life. Saddam would kill many, many people upon returning to power. Anyone who helped the U.S. would be dead. But I can't help but think he was wrongfully removed from power.

SlowwHand is offline SlowwHand
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  Old Post 28-10-2003 01:25 Visit SlowwHand's homepage!
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Bunch of dumb****s.
The U.N. is a Swiss-run aid organization (see followup if you didn't know).
So bombing them, because the U.S. is there, is okey-dokey?

Drop leavlets giving 48 hours notice, then make glass.

MrFun is offline MrFun
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  Old Post 28-10-2003 01:33 Visit MrFun's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by Dissident
What's wrong with Saddam Husseing getting back into power?

The whole point of removing him was for violating U.N. sanctions and possessing womd. But it appears there were no womd.

Yes I know what would happen in real life. Saddam would kill many, many people upon returning to power. Anyone who helped the U.S. would be dead. But I can't help but think he was wrongfully removed from power.


Saddam Insane NEEDED to be removed from power in Iraq -- that we did so, was a wise move.

That the Bush administration carried out this mission with presentation of misinformation to Americans and for sake of oil guzzling, is wrong.

Jac de Molay is offline Jac de Molay
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Sep 2001
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  Old Post 28-10-2003 01:56
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quote:
Originally posted by Ned
According to a dark haired, bespeckled, makeupless "peace activist" who just appeared on CNN to comment on yesterday's march on Washington, the solution to Iraq would be for the Unites States to pull out now and turn Iraq over to the UN. According to her, the attacks on the UN and other international agencies are solely motivated by their "perceived" support of the American occupation. She said that once the UN was in charge, Saddam would surrender, or at least stop fighting, and support a democratic regime in Baghdad.

Really?


This person is a prime example of why so many of us opposed to the war avoid the so-called "movement" like a plague. It's basically a confused shambles of people who harbor conspiracy theories or spout off crap like this.

Obviously, we can't pull out no matter what. And the UN, while useful in many respects, are lousy military peacekeepers. Bush sucked us into this money pit, and we're gonna be stuck for a least 6-7 years.

Giancarlo is offline Giancarlo
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  Old Post 28-10-2003 01:59 Visit Giancarlo's homepage!
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This attack was horrible and I hope those responsible are brought to justice for their crimes.

Also a reminder: The US and its coalition will not pull out until the job is done. Don't even try to use this to further your agenda.

Those terrorist bastards don't give a crap about their own people.. rather they bomb the institutions that will provide security and help.

Kropotkin is offline Kropotkin
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  Old Post 28-10-2003 02:00
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Of cource she's delusional. But I can't see what her apperence has to do with anything...

Then again, once my girlfriend looked over my shoulder and thought Ned must be a nice guy, I think Vin Diesel had something to do with it. So maybe apperence has something to do with it.

Ned is offline Ned
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  Old Post 28-10-2003 02:03
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Can you imagine what would happen if we did withdraw? Saddam would quickly resume power and a bloodbath beyond measure would start. After he was done in Baghdad, he would turn his eyes on the Shi'ite South, then later on the Kurdish North.

Imagine the killing an raping and the potential use of the hidden WMD.

Clark, where are you my boy. You said it was right for the US to act without a UN resolution in Kosovo to protect the people against genocide. Where are you today on Iraq? Why are you against the $87 billion to support our effort to liberate its people. Is our cause not just? Or was your position on Kosovo a sham lie?

Giancarlo is offline Giancarlo
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  Old Post 28-10-2003 02:05 Visit Giancarlo's homepage!
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If Saddam didn't resume power if the US pulled out, there would total anarchy and thousands would be killed in a absolute bloodbath. But hey, the liberals want that.

lord of the mark is offline lord of the mark
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Dec 2000
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  Old Post 28-10-2003 02:18
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quote:
Originally posted by chegitz guevara
Everyone knows the RC is off-limits. The question is, is it the Ba'athists of al-Qaeda that's doing this?


Assuming its AQ (or somebody inspired by AQ with a similar Qutbist ideology) why would you think they consider the AQ off limits? They dont consider ANY Kufrs offlimits, and in fact about 80% of muslims are not offlimits to them. International conventions mean nothing to them.

lord of the mark is offline lord of the mark
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  Old Post 28-10-2003 02:20
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quote:
Originally posted by Spiffor

It is completely delusional to believe that an immediate withdrawal from Iraq by the US forces will be any helpful to the Iraqis.

If the UN took over the process with the US firepower, it wouldn't change much for the Iraqis, except that their wealth would be a tad less sucked by foreign companies, and would be much less sucked by American companies. A UN-sponsored regime may potentially also be more independent in the end, and result in a government that listens more to the wishes of the population than to those of Washington.

But there would be no immediate changes to what the Iraqis are experiencing. Things would most probably be even worse if the UN couldn't rely on US firepower.

Stopping the occupation now is the best way for a restauration of Saddam, or for the arrival of the civil war



In general i agree with Spiffor - theres no alternative to american firepower - there simply isnt enough other deployable firepower available in the world. Everybodys got strategic overstretch.

Re sucking the wealth - can you say "odious debt"?

lord of the mark is offline lord of the mark
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  Old Post 28-10-2003 02:22
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quote:
Originally posted by MrFun
SlowwHand, it's unAmerican to post any bad news about Iraq.

shame on you


I hope ive never said that its unamerican to post bad news on Iraq. Its certainly perfectly legitimate. While I may from time to time have tried to post what I see as good news, to put it all in context, I did not mean by that to impugn anyones patriotism (well at least not for that!)

Ned is offline Ned
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  Old Post 28-10-2003 11:58
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quote:
Originally posted by Fez
If Saddam didn't resume power if the US pulled out, there would total anarchy and thousands would be killed in a absolute bloodbath. But hey, the liberals want that.


Fez, I am not sure that the liberals want a bloodbath in Iraq. They simply want the US out and will do and say anything to achieve that objective including the statement that all will be peaceful in Iraq if the US, the cause of all evil in the world in the liberal view, would simply leave.

Rufus T. Firefly is offline Rufus T. Firefly
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  Old Post 28-10-2003 12:15
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quote:
Originally posted by Ned


Fez, I am not sure that the liberals want a bloodbath in Iraq. They simply want the US out and will do and say anything to achieve that objective including the statement that all will be peaceful in Iraq if the US, the cause of all evil in the world in the liberal view, would simply leave.


Well, it's fun to charicature your political opponents -- I do it too -- but this is wrong, or at least only applies to some liberals. Liberals right now are furious that, having proceeded with Iraq to begin with, the Bush administration has done such a half-assed job of it. Liberals are furious that they were ignored when they said "it's going to be a bloodbath," and are still being ignored when they say, "see? We told you so. This should have been handled differently." Liberals are furious that Bush & Co. keep changing their story about why we're in Iraq and what we expected the occupation to be like, and getting away with it.

But we are, most of us, sensible enough to know that a US pullout at this point will just turn Iraq into that other shining star of Bush foreign policy, Afghanistan. Nobody wants that.

Still, even though we too ar committed to seeing this thing through, it doesn't chang the fact that the Bushies were wrong, wrong, wrong: wrong about the WMD, wrong about the way our "liberating" troops in Baghdad would be treated, wrong about how many troops we would need, wrong about how much it was going to cost, wrong about how long it was all going to take. We are like passengers in a plane being piloted by a drunk; of course we can't just get out, but don't expect us to be happy about the situation.

edited for typos

Last edited by Rufus T. Firefly on 28-10-2003 at 12:22

Ned is offline Ned
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  Old Post 28-10-2003 12:21
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Rufus, I may have mispoke. I was quoting the anti-war leader who appeared on CNN. From here appearance and rhetoric, I think she was far to the left of most liberals.

If you ask most Democrats what they want to do now, they would agree with you that we have to see things through in Iraq. But the anti-war marchers and the extremists, like Shapton and Kucinich, want the US out now, damn the consequences.

 
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