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E
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July 24,2005 Ctp2 Tiles in sig!
May 1999
time: 21:31
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UPDATE 06/26/04
As the code project goes on, certainly people will want new capabilities for units in the epic game and available for scenarios, SLIC, and mods. I'll try to update this as they come out...
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1) In combination with the idea that stack size expands with time, I'd like each unit to be worth a number of "points", and you can only have so many points worth of units in a stack (this number can change with tech) (OT: typing this I just realized this system would be quite amusing in a Warhammer mod ). In addition, the points can be divided into different types - sea/land/air, maybe arty too. Also, allow multiple stacks per tile (though if this turns out to be an exploit for defenders, make it so that the other stacks retreat int an adjacent tile if one of the stacks loses a battle). - Kucinich
I'll added newest abilitiy ideas here then move down the list:
1) TILE Capture. A function where a unit on an unclaimed or enemy AI can enter that square and CAPTURE it, making a tile you possess. This would most most important for capturing airbases, harbors, forts, and goods.
2) Precision Bombing. (Gen.Dragolean)
The way I see it is that it is units can attack improvements only. Just make it so that units can only attack a building or improvement on a tile. The precision attack should be left to units like Special Forces, guerillas, Spies and aircraft like stealth bombers and cruise missles.
3) Move cost: Abstract Logistics (see thread for discussion)
Instead of just move point cost units consume food/gold/pw for each move and the price increases the farther the unit is from a city/fort or harbor (allied cities too)
4) Of course Civ3 cherry picks like resource requirements, automatically built from buildings (C3C)
1) Hidden Nationality (From Civ3)
(you dont know which country is attacking you, they appear as barbarians, and you can do it without declaring war)
2) Precision Targeting (From Civ3, but not just air units)
(you can choose which unit, improvement, or population to attack)
3) Create Guerrilla
(like the new conquests enslaving or old Civ2 partisans, when a special forces unit wins in battle it converts the unit to a guerrilla unit)
4) Convert Units (BigMc)
(Bribe units like Civ1, or Steal units as BigMC added)
5) Steal map (BigMc)
(either territory map or enemy plans like Civ3)
6) Steal Gold (BigMc)
7) Steal Public Works (BigMc)
(Do corporate branches need modifying? I would like a tab that showed how much PW was coming from corporate branches)
8) Cause unhappiness (incite a revlt with out overthrowing city) (BigMc)
9) Refugees / join other player city (BigMc)
(when you get 50% = take over the city. May have to copy the Civ3 nationality thing though)
10) resource model for unit construction (Hexagonian)
(various proposals are in debate in economy thread)
11)veteran status (Hexagonian)
(fix is being worked, may lead to civ3 style promotion from regular-veteran-elite)
I'd suggest adding Elite and conscript from Civ3 also to allow for varying degrees of armies
12) food hunger flag for unit maintenance (Hexagonian)
(like civ1 and civ2 for settlers I assume, but available to all units to represent logistics)
13) Harvesting
(Unit on square outside of borders takes resources from that square back to civilization, I thinkit was in AC)
14) Joint/Coalition Attack
(Might involve combat system editing but allowing for allied units to attack and defend the same square on a turn, costing it a turn in the next round)
15) Civ2/Civ3 Style Paradrop
(debatable, but allows for behind enemy lines infiltration)
16) Civ2 style Partisans (BigMC)
(appear after a city has been captured, already SLIC'd)
17) Experience level for units (J Bytheway)
(Units gain different bonuses with continuing combat, may have to change at some point because units dont live forever, but also good for a fantasy game)
18) Propaganda (BigMC)
Increases vet level in allied units decreases it in enemy units. Would also be great as a leaflets options for aircraft.
19) Medic (bigMc)
Heals all with it command use – 500 gold -10 food – 25 public works
Also medic unit increases heal rate of units. Could also be used as a supply unit, AI needs o know how to use this one!
20) Siege Class
A unit that has a bonus only when attacking cities but very weak on the battlefield.
21) Create more unit sizes for (Caranorn explanation scroll down)
22) Split cargo type land/air/sea/special/total in so that a unit may carry different numbers of units. cargo capacity size might be split into 4 as well, but that would probably not be needed.
23) tie unit (and other features like buildings and tile improvements) in with certain goods available in a city (or traded). Likewise, tie in production to existing buildings in a city and if possible wonders in a civ. (Example, 3000 BC, your capital city has a horse good, so you may build some Javelin Cavalry which has this prerequisite, 1000 BC you have just build some stables (horsebreeding) in one of your frontier cities, you may now build Theban Cavalry etc.). Possibly make it so that a unit may have up to 3 prerequisites (all could be empty making the unit buildable as soon as you have the tech), prerequisites could be goods (owned and/or traded), tile improvements, a building or a wonder. If more then one prerequisite is used for a unit, all have to be met, alternatively create an additional line and make this togleable by unit (and/or).
24) Now here comes the potential major change. Why limit armies at a fixed size, why not allow a gliding scale depending on technology and possibly leaders?
25) revision of the combat system using a real small map, allowing player deployment (the ai would probably have a hard time though) and some added player control (turn or time based battles). But this I expect would be asking too much and might not even be of interest to most players.
26) The above mentionned leader functions. Army size modifier (instead of a bonus it could be a multiplier, but that might be harder to fine tune) and troop quality modifierwould be 2 special leader values, I could probably come up with others as well.
27) What about having a communications black out were the city and units in the city has a view range of one tile for a few turns so you can get an army close without the city player knowing or just to put the fear of god in a person. Or something that brings back fog of war or undiscovered (a dark age effect)
28) Cloaking (differnt than invisible?)
Several (like 6 or 8) extra undefined custom buttons for unit actions. Which:
* Units definitions have flags enabling these.
* They have definable icons, sounds etc.
* They can be disabled (greyed out,) and activated thru SLIC.
* They activate SLIC code, when pressed. The context passed is the unit. (from which location etc can be found)
* Optionally, the button should be able to target another location, army or city.
29) I always wanted to make a sea unit in a landlocked city then use the rail launcher to send it to space and then allow it to space down in the ocean and start firing. (big MC)
30) Peacekeeper. A button if you have the UN or something that lets your units become peacekeepers (maybe add a UN flag to the unit graphics?). It gives right of passage to different territory. Cant be expelled by diplomacy (but can be attacked). If peacekeeper is attacked it causes huge Rep hits. In peacekeepr mode you cant attack but your defense is doubled and you can build improvements in another countries territory.
Last edited by E on 26-06-2004 at 20:16
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hexagonian
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Gnawing on your mind...
Jun 1999
time: 23:31
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quote:
Originally posted by E
Hidden Nationality - (you dont know which country is attacking you, they appear as barbarians, and you can do it without declaring war) |
This opens the door for abuse, IMO, because there is no consequences to your action. There would need to be a huge drop in regard if caught, and the chances of being caught should be large.
quote:
Originally posted by E
Precision Targeting
(you can choose which unit, improvement, or population to attack) |
Its an interesting concept, but I don't see this as necessary since combat is not handled as one-unit vs one-unit, but as stack vs stack. If there is a type of unit that would destroy another in a stack it would also need to give you the means to see all of the units in a stack, so you can choose which one to kill, because if it did it randomly, it would probably be a waste to build.
And it could be overpowering, especially if you could see the entire makeup of a stack, or you were able to continually pick off strong units, unless you were able to get the AI to use it as effectively as you could too.
I do feel that the inability to see the entire makeup of a stack to be one of the strengths of CTP2. If you want to see what is in a stack, you have to commit a unit to attack a stack.
What would be nice is to designate where units are lined up on the combat screen (ie, which front-line units go against which enemy units), and to get the AI to use the retreat feature - either that, or totally eliminate it for the player.
quote:
Originally posted by E
Create Guerrilla
(like the new conquests enslaving or old Civ2 partisans, when a special forces unit wins in battle it converts the unit to a guerrilla unit) |
This has already been done via SLIC.
My hopes for unit additions would be to impliment a resource model for unit construction, and to get the vet status and food hunger flag for unit maintenance to work.
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MrBaggins
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Its not a bad idea to cherry pick the best ideas of Civ3, and implement similar features, optional where possible. Those ones that aren't unbalancing anyway.
Personally, I think that one very large thing we have to consider, is should the CtP2 interface be improved? (thats a yes, btw *chuckles*) and are there any interface features from Civ3 that would improve the playability of CtP2.
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MrBaggins
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Interface as in user interface, yes.
I.E. buttons, screens, tabs, etc.
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Maquiladora
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Id like to see the screen centre on a city when i highlight it in the list... and some other improvements i cant remember yet.
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MrBaggins
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Cloaking would be a very interesting feature. Unbalancing. But interesting.
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MrBaggins
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OK... pretty large, extensive and useful idea for units:
Several (like 6 or 8) extra undefined custom buttons for unit actions. Which:
* Units definitions have flags enabling these.
* They have definable icons, sounds etc.
* They can be disabled (greyed out,) and activated thru SLIC.
* They activate SLIC code, when pressed. The context passed is the unit. (from which location etc can be found)
* Optionally, the button should be able to target another location, army or city.
Last edited by MrBaggins on 05-11-2003 at 23:13
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MrBaggins
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If we got custom actions for units working, you could introduce additional "timers" to SLIC, other than happiness.
It might be nice to have food, production, commerce modifiers.
Imagine a terrorist (yeah... I know there is a bio-terrorist already). I think that in addition to causing just a happiness effect, we might want economic effects, and a "commerce" timer for that might work great. (There is a small knock on effect that happiness has on city efficiency and thus income, but its not enough, and increasing it to the point of rioting isn't reasonable)
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Caranorn
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Luxembourg, Europe
Mar 2000
time: 06:31
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Some suggestions, remember I'm no programmer so I might be asking for th impossible;-)
1) Create more unit sizes for transport, not everyone will have a use for this, but for more or less modern scenarios this could be handy. I'd sugest 8 or 9 sizes.
2) Split cargo type land/air/sea/special/total in so that a unit may carry different numbers of units (for a example a commando carrier like the old HMS Hermes, 1/3/1/1/3, in which case Hermes could carry 1 unit of any type and an additional 2 air units, some units might have multiple high cargo capacities which makes a total value necessary, which means said unit may never carry more then the total value). (Not sure CTP2 currently uses a special cargo type, I'm thinking of missiles, mines and such).
3) If this won't slow down the game too much, cargo capacity size might be split into 4 as well, but that would probably not be needed.
4) This has already been mentionned, but make it possible to tie unit (and other features like buildings and tile improvements) in with certain goods available in a city (or traded). Likewise, tie in production to existing buildings in a city and if possible wonders in a civ. (Example, 3000 BC, your capital city has a horse good, so you may build some Javelin Cavalry which has this prerequisite, 1000 BC you have just build some stables (horsebreeding) in one of your frontier cities, you may now build Theban Cavalry etc.). Possibly make it so that a unit may have up to 3 prerequisites (all could be empty making the unit buildable as soon as you have the tech), prerequisites could be goods (owned and/or traded), tile improvements, a building or a wonder. If more then one prerequisite is used for a unit, all have to be met, alternatively create an additional line and make this togleable by unit (and/or).
5) Now here comes the potential major change. Why limit armies at a fixed size, why not allow a gliding scale depending on technology and possibly leaders? That is at the start of the game you might be able to form armies up to lets say 5 units, with a standard leader (another unit type to be considered, let it increase army size and possibly raise quality rating (as we are now talking about possibel levels in addition to the existing standard/veteran), once you have gained certain technologies you could raise armies up to size 9 etc. Much would of course depend on how large a force the engine could handle, but I would definitelly try and go beyond the existing 12. Another thing to consider might be an entire revision of the combat system using a real small map, allowing player deployment (the ai would probably have a hard time though) and some added player control (turn or time based battles). But this I expect would be asking too much and might not even be of interest to most players.
6) The above mentionned leader functions. Army size modifier (instead of a bonus it could be a multiplier, but that might be harder to fine tune) and troop quality modifierwould be 2 special leader values, I could probably come up with others as well.
I will have to think this over some more. In the past I've come across many problems trying to design scenarios for CTP2 (and other civ games) because some features just don't exist in the game. On the other hand I haven't worked on a CTP2 mod for at least a year, so my memory of the game files is limited and I might be asking for already existing features.
Marc aka Caran...
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03-11-2003 19:20
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