03-11-2003 20:57									#1
	Early Landing Comparison Game #6 Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

Early Landing Comparison Game #6

First, I would like to dedicate this game to Scouse Gits(2). Without his encouragement and prodding, I doubt I would ever have written a guide for EL games and gone on to host comparison games. At that time, we were conducting a lively correspondence by email and my life was enriched by our friendship.

It seems fitting that we are now due to play an orange civ, and that the English happen to be this color, so I went into my rules.txt and looking for Henry VII and replaced the name of this lecherous scoundrel with that of Scouse Gits(2), so that England might have a ruler with more class and wit.

The island we are starting on looks a little bit like England, too, and the settlers happen to start off in the vicinity of Liverpool, although the SSC site at (87,49) is closer to where London would be. I’m afraid England has slipped a bit too far south in this game, being partly on the Equator, but hey, I tried my best in locating a suitable start.

The deadline for this game will be December 31, and a copy of the EL rules are posted below. Don’t forget to enjoy your games and when deciding what to do with that hidden special remember that Ivor’s favorite beverage was wine and that he will be watching to see what you do!


Rules used for Comparison Games

a) The human player may not tip any huts. What’s a rule without an exception, so in the rare situation where a hut may block a player’s movement, the player must save the game, after which the hut is tipped enough times until it produces a military unit or a nomad, which must then be immediately disbanded. Huts appearing in a radius of any city can be destroyed without reaping any benefit by placing a citizen on the hut’s tile while in the city display.

b) Since the game attempts to prevent caravan and freight re-homing, this exploit is not allowed. Any other ploy or exploit is allowed.

c) As a minimum each player should provide a summary of their game, using the format provided with each game start. Each player is also encouraged to keep a chronological log of their game, listing significant events. The addition of details describing the game and strategic decisions made while playing it add interest, so doing this is very much encouraged. Once a game is completed, a short game summary and the optional log should be posted in the game’s thread. Attached to this post should be a save of the game made showing a completed ship or one on the way to Alpha Centauri.

d) The player posting the best landing date before the deadline will be declared the winner of that game. If the date is the best so far attained in comparison games, it will become the new “official” record.


Summary Format

Governments
Monarchy
Republic
Democracy
Communism/Fundamentalism

Wonders
HG
MPE
ST
Colossus
Copernicus
Isaac's
Leo's
Michaelangelo's
Darwin's
SETI
Apollo

SSC stats
size 8
size 12
size 21
max. size

Techs
Trade
Invention
Railroad
Automobile
Nuclear Power
Computers
Flight
Space Flight

Key civ contact

AC arrival

The table following each game will contain these stats. Of course, you may not end up building all wonders listed, or use all governments, so just keep track of dates relevant to your own game. More detailed logs and/or written accounts of games will be at the players' discretion. Add as little or as much as you want to the required summary.

Attachment: sc_b4000.sav
This has been downloaded 24 time(s).

	03-11-2003 21:43									#2
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Solo,

Glad you are back. Good luck with this new challenge. Is this a suitable start for an OCC attempt??

Monk

	03-11-2003 22:42									#3
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Hi Monk,

Good to see you back, too!

The start is suitable for OCC, too. Play the way you prefer, or try both types of games using it.

	04-11-2003 11:07									#4
	Put an end to popups!

Get thee behind me Satan.

I will be quite busy with RL until after Christmas - but I don't suppose I'll be able to resist the chance to get a landing before 1850 at last. I've been experimenting recently with SSC sites that are mainly water tiles rather than having lots of specials. The theory is that the extra trade arrow from a lot of tiles makes up for loss of silk or wine. We'll see.

RJM at Sleeper's

	04-11-2003 11:33									#5
	Put an end to popups!

RJM: Consider trying the GOTM 34 over at CFC. There is a decent OCC/SSC site close to the start with only 5 land tiles (looks like mostly Plains). The Specials are one Whale, two Fish, and one unknown (Whale under dark land). Should be something like you have been experimenting with. I gather you are shooting for Pottery and Seafaring early, perhaps KingRich too?

	04-11-2003 12:18									#6
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quote: Originally posted by Elephant RJM: Consider trying the GOTM 34 over at CFC. There is a decent OCC/SSC site close to the start with only 5 land tiles (looks like mostly Plains). The Specials are one Whale, two Fish, and one unknown (Whale under dark land). Should be something like you have been experimenting with. I gather you are shooting for Pottery and Seafaring early, perhaps KingRich too?

Don't put more temptation my way - I already spend more than enough time playing.

I prefer to avoid pottery (if I can get an early enough trade for seafaring). So far, I have usually been able to build the harbour in time for the WLTKD population explosion. I haven't tried KRC. I'm begining to realise that one of my mistakes is lack of production capacity in the end game, so it may be worth a try.

RJM at Sleeper's

	04-11-2003 14:17									#7
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quote: Originally posted by rjmatsleepers Don't put more temptation my way - I already spend more than enough time playing. RJM at Sleeper's

And I thought I΄m the only one!

Solo, any specification on the settings? Medium Size, Deity, Raging Hordes I assume?

Zenon

	04-11-2003 21:21									#8
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quote: Originally posted by rjmatsleepers I prefer to avoid pottery (if I can get an early enough trade for seafaring). So far, I have usually been able to build the harbour in time for the WLTKD population explosion. I haven't tried KRC. I'm begining to realise that one of my mistakes is lack of production capacity in the end game, so it may be worth a try. RJM at Sleeper's

Avoiding Pottery gives you better commodity choices, unless you install Samson's Dye/Copper patch which seems to help more cities demand Salt and Wool.

"WLTKD population explosion"? I use WLTKD to get Republic-style extra trade while still having three supported units and Settlers on a diet.

KRC has the advantage of giving one extra shield from every tile you are working, unlike Colossus which gives you extra trade only from tiles that already have at least one. KRC shines in OCC cities with lots of water: it is like an Offshore Platform available in the BC era. You can rearrange your tech plan to delay its demise a bit, but if you put it in right after getting Eng you will have awesome production while WLing the city up. There is also minimal early pollution, as documented by Startlifter at CFC a while back:

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showt...s=&threadid=765

	04-11-2003 21:41									#9
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

Er, yeah. Thanks for posting a link to a thread with a spammy reply from myself in. Starlifter was a great guy, and a valuable source of knowledge. It's worth reading more of his posts on your next CFC visit.

	04-11-2003 22:39									#10
	Get a bigger avatar today!

We were all a little gushy back then...

Solo's deadline of Dec 31 makes this one even you can't miss, DoY. Up for some EL/OCC fun?

	05-11-2003 00:45									#11
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

Zenon,

Those are the usual settings along with allowing civ restarts in EL games. It will be fun to play the next game using a start prepared by someone else.

If you are planning an OCC game, I know of no restrictions on the type of start used, since OCC results are only relevant to individual games.

For the game in this thread, it's up to players how they want to play it, either as EL or OCC. Your results will be listed in the appropriate category. It will be interesting to see how much longer it takes for one city vs. many using the same start.

	05-11-2003 05:25									#12
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solo,

Thank you for leaving RoN aside and starting this game.

I am very busy trying to beat all scenario records on the Spanish site, but you have chosen such a name for the ruler of the orange civ that I feel compelled to give it a try (with no hope of getting one of the best results, since I go on playing without black clicking and helper programs ).

	05-11-2003 11:06									#13
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quote: Originally posted by Elephant "WLTKD population explosion"? I use WLTKD to get Republic-style extra trade while still having three supported units and Settlers on a diet.

Yup - celebrating Monarchy is good; faster research and more gold from the vans. I just meant that once you start the republic / democracy celebration in an SSC with lots of water, you need to have a harbour.

KRC in a city with lots of water sounds like a jolly wheeze. I will try it in my experimental games. For this one, I think I'll simply try to put together everything that I think I've learned and see if that gets me to AC before 1850.

RJM at Sleeper's

	05-11-2003 22:20									#14
	Get a bigger avatar today!

I d/l'd this & will look into it -- also need to look at games 1-5 for a better perspective.

Speed is not my forte -- I tend to play a little safer than many (but not all.) Hopefully I'll provide some equity to the statistics

(signed)

New victim

	06-11-2003 11:36									#15
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quote: Originally posted by Old n Slow I d/l'd this & will look into it -- also need to look at games 1-5 for a better perspective. Speed is not my forte -- I tend to play a little safer than many (but not all.) Hopefully I'll provide some equity to the statistics (signed) New victim

I don't think you need to worry too much - I've taken the wooden spoon in every game I've finished so far. But every day in every way I'm getting better and better

RJM at Sleeper's

	06-11-2003 18:26									#16
	Support Apolyton

quote: Originally posted by rjmatsleepers But every day in every way I'm getting better and better RJM at Sleeper's

So am I

Perhaps you might be our President (and I could be Secretary General)

"The (yacht)club of those who get better and better"

	06-11-2003 19:08									#17
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by rjmatsleepers Get thee behind me Satan.

Close, RJM, but the name is solo! Good to see you and to see La Fayette back for another game.

Welcome to Old n Slow. I hope you enjoy trying this style of play.

	08-11-2003 11:41									#18
	AC landing 1835 Increase Your PM Length

Here are the summary stats - save and commentary to follow.

RJM at Sleeper's

Governments

Monarchy 2150 BC
Republic AD 60
Democracy AD 1540 (and again AD 1828)

Wonders

ST AD 460
Colossus 725 BC
Copernicus AD 20
Isaac's AD 1280
Darwin's AD 1640
Apollo AD 1802
Hoover AD 1760

SSC stats

size 8 AD 300
size 12 AD 600
size 21 AD 780
max. size AD 1800 (26)

Techs

Trade 1300 BC
Invention AD 780
Railroad AD 1300
Automobile AD 1620
Nuclear Power AD 1660
Computers AD 1760
Flight AD 1764
Space Flight AD 1784

AC arrival AD 1835

Last edited by rjmatsleepers on 08-11-2003 at 12:23

	08-11-2003 11:57									#19
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

I chose to use the starting position as my SSC. I like to avoid any knowledge of the map that is not gained in the course of the game (ie no black clicking, no hut finder, take no notice of suggested SSC site in the starting post). Rather than spend forever searching, I take the best SSC site available when I have 4 caravans ready to build the collossus. In this case, the starting site gives trade arrows from every tile so that was good enough for me. I renamed it to Liverpool after I had chosen it as the SSC.

The good news was that almost every van delivery was demanded. They gave me lots of gold, but didn't help as much with research as they should have done. I was mostly around 2 turns per tech and my deliveries didn't give me enough to trigger a discovery while my SSC was providing enough beakers for the next discovery. Also I didn't get a good ship chain going.

I remembered the lesson from SG(2) and built Darwin's in a more recent city.

My biggest mistake was failure to find and trade with the Indians. I understand how it happened, but it was astounding carelessness.

After launch I had a little problem that (fortunately) didn't affect the landing date. I picked up an Indian city after they declared war and failed to sort out the unhappiness correctly. I consequently spent a long time in anarchy. How do OEDO years work when you've switched to a turn per year after launch? It seemed to take longer than 4 years.

I have a turgidly detailed log, so I can give more details if you're really interested.

RJM at Sleeper's

Attachment: sc_a1834.sav
This has been downloaded 4 time(s).

	10-11-2003 02:21									#20
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

My understanding of OEDO after launch is take the last Oedo before the launch and continue the XXXO pattern through the launch turn. You may have been thrown off by the switch from two year turns to one year turns. Post your log and we'll take a look.

I have begun an OCC using this start. Settled London in 3650BC; revolt to Republic in 1250BC. Started Colossus in 1900BC; should be switching to complete as Marco Polo around 800BC. Having Plains for a city square hurts the extra food production.

	13-11-2003 22:52									#21
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I have finished my EL game and here is the summary:

Governments

Republic - 1850 BC
Democracy – 300 AD

Wonders

MPE – 1250 BC
ST – 525 BC
Colossus – 350 BC
Copernicus – 125 BC
Isaac's - 120 AD
Darwin's – 420 AD
Apollo – 860 AD

SSC stats

size 8 – 400 BC
size 12 – 300 BC
size 21 – 75 BC
max. size - 35

Techs

Trade – 1450 BC
Invention – 100 BC
Railroad – 400 AD
Automobile - 620 AD
Nuclear Power – 720 AD
Computers – 780 AD
Flight – 800 AD
Space Flight – 840 AD

Key civ contact – 1150 BC

AC arrival – 956 AD

I tried a few new things this game, but they did not work well. Barbarians were plentiful and sometimes interrupted progress.

I followed RJM’s lead by renaming my capital to Liverpool, founding it where the settlers started the game. London followed later at the suggested SSC site. This site permitted a lot of farmland and a large population, so I decided to include Refrigeration in my own tech path to maximize SSC growth. After converting most land tiles to grassland and farmland, 35 citizens were produced just before transforming the land specials to wine.

I would say that below average trade and the lack of good helper and colony management were the two things that prevented a better landing date. This excellent SSC site deserved a better effort.

Following is the log of my game:

BC years

4000 Liverpool
3900 York
3800 Alphabet
3650 York – warrior
3550 Code of Laws
3400 Liv – settlers, Yor – warrior
3300 Nottingham
3200 Liv – warrior
3150 Writing
3000 Liv – warrior
2850 Yor – settlers
2800 Hastings

Originally, I had planned more cities north and west of these first few helpers, but barbarians kept interrupting progress in this direction, so I decided to cluster the remaining helpers around the SSC site, the center of which had to be converted from forest to plains, before it could be founded. Most of the helper sites did not have much of their own to make them productive and this hurt the progress of the game later on.

2750 Bronze Working
2700 Has – warrior
2500 Liv – settlers
2450 Canterbury
2400 Literacy
2200 Yor – settlers
2050 Not – settlers

Barbs appeared again, and many more times later on. Although there were enough defenders to hold onto cities, one was knocked down in size during an attack. Several times, settlers had to be fortified in existing cities to help protect them. They are good defenders, too, although doing this wastes their valuable time.

1950 Republic, Liv – settlers
1900 Can – settlers, Coventry, revolution
1850 government to Republic, London

London was the SSC and founding it was delayed by the forested central tile. The site was excellent, so it was too bad that helpers could not be as productive, which is why more helpers than usual were added.

The first experiment in this game was to control helper happiness only with luxuries, the idea being to delay their temples and/or colosseums until luxuries were no longer needed for SSC “we love” growth. This allowed more production to go into caravans and ended up speeding up early trade and SSC development, but it turned out that a luxury setting of 30% was needed to sustain happy helpers. I think it might have been a better idea to try the HG or earlier temples instead.

I also decided on early Republic in this game, since opportunities for collecting tribute were limited by starting on a separate island. Republic was gifted to each AI on first contact, too, to speed up their research.

1700 Currency
1450 Trade
1400 Liv – food
1350 Yor – food
1250 Has – Marco Polo’s Embassy, Not – silk, Celts – trade for Map Making and Ceremonial Burial, share maps

After building MPE, I could see that the AI had the usual collection of available techs, including: Ceremonial Burial, Horseback Riding, Map Making, Pottery, Warrior Code, Masonry, Mysticism, and The Wheel. Three AI were in the process of learning Mathematics, Iron Working and Construction, so building MPE as the first wonder was worth while.

I usually maximize my own science setting throughout EL games, but in this one decided to use less science early on, hoping that this would give the AI more time to learn techs on my behalf, allowing me to use more resources for luxuries and economic development. At first, this plan worked very well, but later on, the AI kept picking useless or known techs for their research choices, and were practically no help at all in acquiring new techs during the second half of the game.

1200 Cov – trireme, French – trade for Mysticism, share maps
1150 Indians – trade for The Wheel, give tech, share maps
1100 Lon – hides, Can – trireme
1050 Aztecs – peace, trade for Iron Working, give tech, share maps
1000 Americans – trade for Construction, give tech, share maps
925 Not – diplomat, Yor – hides

Yet more barbs on the horizon, so a diplomat was needed.

900 Lon – beads, Zulus – trade for Mathematics, give tech, share maps
850 Americans – give tech, share maps, silk(d) to Delhi, 205g
825 Lon – hides, Has – wine
800 Cov – beads, Philosophy, Engineering, Liv – silk, hides(d) to Madras, 216g
775 Lon – marketplace, Can – beads
750 Not – trireme
725 Bridge Building

There was a lot to do to get London ready, so this tech was given more priority than usual. I had 3 settlers working on London’s tiles.

700 wine(d) to Delhi, 220g, Indians – give tech, share maps
675 Lon – dye, Medicine, beads(d) to Madras, 248g
650 silk(d) to Madras, 264g, Newcastle

Newcastle was the first colony, built on the continent shared by the Celts and Aztecs. As with helpers, colonies in this game did not perform very well.

625 University, Lon – silk, Has – copper, barb leader – 150g

Finally 150g in compensation for all their harassment.

600 Liv – dye, Americans – trade for Astronomy, Celts – war
575 Lon – library, Not – silver, Yor – dye
550 Lon – salt, Cov – silk, Can – hides, Celts – peace, trade for Seafaring, beads(d) to Tenochitlin, 240g, hides(d) to Carmarthen, 232g

525 New – diplomat, Lon – Shakespeare’s Theater, we love begins, Chemistry, barb legion bribed, 82g, Zulus – give tech, peace, share maps

Barbs were also strangely attracted to my first colony, Newcastle, too, where a diplomat became the first priority! In spite of barb troubles, London was off to a very good start, and at this time I thought this game might still have some hopes for an excellent landing date, perhaps challenging the 500 AD barrier. It would take a lot of luck, though.

500 beads(d) to Tlateloclo, 248g
475 New – copper, Lon – harbor, hides(d) to Zimbabwe, 344g
450 Sanitation, Has – copper, silk(d) to Bombay, 450g
425 New – temple, Lon – university, Not – dye, Yor – dye, Liv – beads
400 Cov – silk, Can – silk, Lon – size 8
375 Lon – aqueduct
350 Lon – Colossus
325 New – diplomat, salt(d) to Teotihuacan, 468g, riot incited in Rheims for 291g, 79g plundered along with Banking, French – give tech, peace, share maps

Rheims was the second colony, well positioned on the French continent. It seemed more efficient to bribe an existing AI city rather than build a settler and transport it across the map to found a colony. For the third colony, I had my eyes on the Celt city of Armagh, but when I was ready to buy it, it was size 8 and the cost was over 1100 gold, which was no longer a bargain. It’s amusing to see that the AI are quite ready to make peace right after you’ve stolen one of their best cities! This is one of the most endearing qualities exhibited by the AI and I doubt that a human opponent would react in the same way!

300 Rhe – temple, Lon – sewer system, size 12, Aztecs – give tech, share maps, copper(d) to Paris, 56g

250 Lon – cloth, Has – silk, Liv – dye, Economics, dye(d) to Ulundi, 522g

225 Lon – bank, Can – silk, Not – dye, Yor – dye

Here is where I blew any chance for an excellent result. Since the AI turned out to be good for only a few more techs, it was time to build Copernicus immediately, and put temples in helpers so that science could be maxed out. In this game, I prioritized economic development, instead, building a stock exchange next in the SSC.

175 Cov – silk
150 Lon – stock exchange
125 New – dye, Lon – Copernicus’s Observatory, Cov – harbor, copper(d) to Carmarthen, 264g, Celts – give tech, share maps

100 Rhe – gems, Invention
75 Lon – salt, size 21, Cov – colosseum, Can – harbor, Liv – beads

London was already size 21 in BC years, which was good progress, but I had big plans and now it was a race to Explosives so that I could make 4 engineers and get them working on the SSC tiles.

50 Has – hides, Not – dye, Yor – dye, cloth(d) to Newcastle, 352g
25 Lon – dye, Has – colosseum, Not – colosseum, Yor – coloseeum, Indians – give tech, share maps

Happiness control with temples/colosseums had been delayed far too long, wasting luxuries that could have been better used for faster research.

AD Years

20 New – hides, Can – silk, silk(d) to Carmarthen, 234g
40 Rhe – dye, Has – harbor, Yor – harbor, Indians – trade for Democracy, Zulus – give tech, share maps

60 Can – colosseum, Liv – dye, Gunpowder, dye(d) to Delhi, 88g, French & Aztecs – give tech, share maps

80 Has – temple, Yor – temple, salt(d) to Teotihuacan, 464g
100 Lon – cloth, Cov – silk, Can – temple, Explosives, Liv – temple, dye(d) to Bombay, 448g, Celtic trireme bribed, 196g

With this NON trireme, I planned to anchor off Armagh and wait for the Democracy revolution, so I could bribe it as my first colony.

120 New – engineers, Rhe – engineers, Lon – Sir Isaac Newton’s College, Not – engineers, Yor – engineers, Americans – trade for Navigation, give tech, share maps

140 Lon – gold, Cov – temple, Can – engineers, Metallurgy, Has – engineers, Liv – harbor, Indians – give tech, share maps

160 Lon – gems
180 Conscription, Indians – give tech, share maps
200 Lon – dye, Aztecs – trade for Feudalism, give tech, share maps, Celts – give tech, share maps

220 Physics, hides(d) to Delhi, 100g
240 New – harbor, gold(d) to Bombay, 592g
260 Rhe – colosseum, Lon – courthouse, Magnetism
280 New – colosseum, Steam Engine, gems(d) to Madras, 676g, revolution

Now I had about 1000g and was ready to bribe Armagh, but succumbed to sticker shock, as over 1100 gold was wanted for my intended third colony.

300 government to Democracy, Lon – temple, we love resumes, Cov – silk, Aztecs – trade for Horseback Riding, Indians – give tech, share maps

I needed to reset the tech list and figured I would need Horseback Riding later to learn Chivalry. Of course, once I had this tech, one of the AI started studying Chivalry themselves! Oh well!

320 Electricity, New – diplomat, Has – gems, Not – dye, Yor – dye, barb elephant bribed, 82g, leader – 150g

340 Lon – food, Can – silk, Liv – dye, Celts – give tech, share maps
360 Refrigeration, Not – temple

This experiment with refrigeration and using SSC farmland for more scientists worked very well, but it required having 4 engineers working full time on the SSC tiles in order to get London to maximum size by the time Automobile was discovered. In games without a chance for a railroad connection to an AI city, I think that having extra scientists by using Refrigeration is worthwhile. Otherwise quite a few helpers and colonies would need scientific improvements in order to secure 1 turn advances.

380 Indians – give tech, share maps, Lon – food, Liv – colosseum, French & Zulus – give tech, share maps

400 Lon – supermaket, Railroad
420 Lon – Darwin’s Voyage, Atomic Theory, Industrialization, Has – rifleman, dye(d) to Ulundi, 104g, French – give tech, share maps

Hastings was facing barbs again. This time a defender was needed since the approaching barb had a leader and couldn’t be bribed using a diplomat.

440 Corporation, Lon – gold
460 Zulus – give tech, share maps, Can – transport, dye(d) to Zimbabwe, 472g
480 Rhe – oil, we love begins in all helpers and colonies, Lon – dye, Refining, Yor – transport, barb elephant bribed – 82g, barb leader - 150g, barb knight bribed – 82g

500 New – diplomat, barb knight bribed – 82g, leader – 150g, Not – transport, Cov – transport

Instead of getting a break, barb activities near Hastings and Newcastle became even more intense!

520 Has – transport
540 Steel
580 Lon – food, dye(d) to Marseilles, 464g
600 Rhe – colosseum, Combustion, Cov – engineer, Oxford, gold(d) to Marseilles, 492g, we love ends with London at size 35

Oxford was a minimal helper used to collect SSC wonder bread. SSC commodities had been blocked by trades to Madras earlier in the game, a large AI city with a lot of trade arrows. Size 35 for an SSC is a record for me in EL games. The extra scientists/tax collectors became very useful. The last transformation in London was already underway: the conversion of the two land specials into wine. One of these had started as silk, and then was watered to wheat, then transformed to grass and finally wine.

620 Lon – dye, Automobile, Stratford, gems(d) to Boston – 308g
640 Lon – superhighways, Electronics, Celts – trade for Chivalry, share maps, Indians – give tech, share maps

The plan of having the SSC, helpers and colonies at full size and strength by Automobile worked out, but it was already 640 AD, behind the pace of more successful games. With science maxed out, the SSC was producing 1296 beakers! It’s too bad that not enough trade could be whipped up to cruise in with 2 advances for each turn. Trading opportunities were not as good as in earlier EL games. Without prospects of an excellent result, not as much care or effort as would be usual was expended during the rest of this game.

660 Str – transport, Mass Production, Can – gold, Has – gems, Not – silver, Yor – gems, Liv – oil, dye(d) to Marseilles, 322g

680 Lon – food, Leadership, Aztecs – give tech, share maps, gems(d) to Newcastle, 246g, oil(d) to Newcastle, 322g, Celts – give tech, share maps

700 Rhe – hides, Lon – gold, Nuclear Fission, Cov – silk, Str – transport, French – give tech, share maps

720 New – gold, Rhe – superhighways, Lon – wool, Has – wine, Nuclear Power, Not – gems, Yor – cloth, Liv – dye, Can – transport, oil(d) to Lon, 970g, gems(d) to Kells, 396g, Indians – give tech, share maps

740 Str – temple, Tactics, New – superhighways, Lon – mass transit, Cov – gems, Machine Tools, wool(d) to Tours, 672g, gold(d) to Marseilles, 928g

760 Laser, Rhe – hides, Lon – wool, Can – dye, Has – dye, Not – beads, Yor – dye, Liv – cloth, Miniaturization, barb leader – 150g, gold(d) to Liverpool, 434g, wine(d) to Marseilles, 290g, silver(d) to Lyons, 215g

780 Str - coal, New – wine, Cov – food, Computers, gems(d) to Newcastle, 470g, dye(d) to Carmarthen, 340g, beads(d) to Kells, 264g, dye(d) to Tlateloclo, 176g, wool(d) to Tours, 672g, Indians – give tech, share maps

800 Flight, Rhe – hides, Lon – research lab, Radio, Can – gems, Yor – beads, Liv – food, Celts –trade for Monarchy, Indians – give tech, share maps, dye(d) to Paris, 139g

With a research lab, those extra SSC scientists really start to pay off. SSC science now maxed out at 1424 beakers, even after Flight cancelled the Colossus.

820 Str – gems, New – food, Lon – wool, Has – wine, Advanced Flight, Not – dye, hides to London, 204g, coal(d) to London, 377g, wool(d) to Tlateloclo, 532g, silk(d) to Bombay, 212g, cloth(d) to Caernarfon, 197g

840 Rocketry, New – food, Rhe – copper, Lon – gold, Cov – dye, Can – food, Space Flight, Yor – food, Liv – food, dye(d) to Madras, 126g, hides to London, 204g, gold(d) to Besancon, 474g, wine(d) to Besancon, 280g, cloth(d) to Besancon, 107g, wine(d) to Marseilles, 194g, dye(d) to Chartres, 62g, Celts – trade for Warrior Code, Indians – give tech

860 Str – dye, Oxf – Apollo Program, New – food, Rhe – dye, Plastics, Lon – wool, Has – gems, Not – food, hides to London, 204g, Copper to London, 204g

880 Str – C #1, Superconductor, Oxf – S #1, New – S #2, Rhe – S #3, Lon – S #4, Cov – food, Can – food, Has – S #5, Not – S #6, Yor – food, Liv – oil, wool(d) to Hlobane, 672g, dye to London, 204g

900 Str – food, Oxf – S #7, New – S #8, Rhe – S #9, Lon – S #10, Fusion Power, Cov – S #11, Can – food, Has – S #12, Not – food, Yor – food, Liv – C #2

920 Str – S #13, New – S #14, Rhe – S #15, Lon – M #1, Can – M #2, Has – M #3, launch 15-1-1-1-1-1

956 arrival on Alpha Centauri

The save was made at the turn of the launch. I think I will try the OCC version, too.

Attachment: sc_a920.sav
This has been downloaded 2 time(s).

	13-11-2003 23:12									#22
	Get a bigger avatar today!

RJM,

Now that I've finished my game and posted it, I have a chance to look your's over. Your logs (and games) are always interesting, so a log would be fun to read.

I agree with Elephant about Oedo timing while waiting for a landing, the 4-turn cycle continues irregardless of what year it is.

Will you also play it again as an OCC game?

	14-11-2003 12:27									#23
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

I'm not sure that anyone will find this log very entertaining, but here it is. My government collapsed in 1822 and I re-established Democracy in 1828. It felt much longer at the time!

RJM at Sleeper's

4000 BC
Decide to build Liverpool at the starting location. Move 2nd settler NW towards river.
Start reseaching alphabet.

3850 BC
Camelot founded at (78,40). Alphabet -> CB

3450 BC
We are wealthiest civ (with 19 gold!)

3200 BC
Bronze -> CoL

3000 BC
Found Avalon at (83,41). Rush phalanx in Liverpool

2950 BC
Start Temple in Liverpool

2700 BC
hit enter after 4 reloads for the hut. CoL -> monarchy

2600 BC
Winchester founded at (79,35)

2450 BC
hit enter pop 100k (1st)

2350 BC
Complete Temple in Liverpool. Trade is at least 14 turns away, but monarchy may improve that. Start barracks for conversion to market place.

2200 BC
monarchy -> currency

2100 BC
revolt to monarchy

2050 BC
Start of English monarchy. Currency still 9 turns away. Sacrifice everything to discovering currency before completion of barracks.

1900 BC
Hirodotus reports we are largest civ with pop 150k.

1800 BC
currency -> trade. switch to market in Liverpool

1450 BC
Complete (non optimal) road network joining all cities ready for caravan traffic.

1350 BC
Avalon completes temple and New Lonon market place. Both start settlers to switch to vans on discovery of trade.

1300 BC
trade -> writing (after much heart searching). Switch to vans in Liverpool and Avalon

1150 BC
Camelot completes temple and starts final van for collossus

1100 bc
Liverpool grows to size 4 and needs an entertainer.

975 bc
build beads in Liverpool for Winchester to get some money even though it delays collossus.

950 BC
start Liverpool celebrating for van delivery

925 BC
writing -> mysticism. Beads (D) Liverpool - Winchester (28) sliders to 10-60-30 to maintain celebration

850 BC
Americans start HG

775 BC
Livy reports we are 3rd most advanced civ Mysticism -> masonry

750 BC
4 vans to Liverpool for Collossus

725 BC
Liverpool builds Colossus and starts library

700 BC
Aztecs start HG

650 BC
Hides (D) Avalon - Liverpool (28)

625 BC
Masonry -> Literacy

600 BC
Hides (D) Winchester - Liverpool (44)

550 BC
Wine (D) Camelot -> Liverpool (44) rush build library in Liverpool

525 BC
Literacy -> Mathematics. Barb archer apears to east of Avalon and Liverpool. Switch to Phalanx in Camelot to protect Avalon

500 BC
Pop 400k. Move Phalanx to Avalon and rehome. Disband Avalon's warrior

475 BC
Celts start HG and French start Pyramids

450 BC
2nd barb archer appears

425 BC
Our phalanx loses to Barb archer move another phalanx from Liverpool and start to panic. Hides (D) Camelot - Liverpool (40) phalanx again loses to archer Mathematics -> philosophy Aztecs complete HG; everyone switches to lighthouse

400 BC
Barb archer kills our settler and the other demands 50 ransom to spare Avalon (which I pay) Fortunately both archers go away

300 BC
Philosophy -> Astronomy -> Medicine

275 BC
Indians start great wall

225 BC
Horoditus says we are 3rd largest civ

200 BC
Indians build pyramids and French change to great wall

125 BC
Pop now 500k

100 Bc
Gloucester founded (76,30). Medicine -> The Republic

25 BC
Hides (D) Winchester - Liverpool (60)

AD 1
6 vans into Liverpool for Copes. Republic -> construction

AD 20
Liverpool builds Cope's

AD 40
Cloth (D) Liverpool - Avalon (74). Revolt to republic

AD 60
English republic founded

AD 80
Construction -> map making

AD 120
Aztecs land I give them 50 gold for peace and then a couple of techs, but they won't exchange maps.

AD 140
Map making -> banking

AD 140
French build great library

AD 160
exchange techs for seafaring, the wheel and iron working. Form alliance with Aztecs. Exchange maps

AD 180
Silk (D) Winchester - Liverpool (102)

AD 200
Celts complete MPE

AD 260
Banking -> engineering

AD 340
Hides (D) Winchester - Liverpool (72)

AD 360
Engineering -> sanitation

AD 400
Americans build Oracle

AD 420
Accept 250 gold to declare war on celts

AD 440
6 vans into Liverpool for Shakes

AD 460
Liverpool builds Shakes

AD 480
Bede says we are 4th happiest civ - aztecs are 2nd Sanitaion -> navigation

AD 520
Hides (D) Winchester - Liverpool (72) pop 900k

AD 540
pop 1M

AD 620
Navigation -> university

AD 660

York founded (79,53) Hides (D) Winchester - Liverpool (54)

AD 680
swapped with aztecs for bridge building. pop now 2m

AD 700
University -> Invention

AD 780
Invention -> physics

AD 820
physics -> chemistry

AD 880
chemistry -> steam engine

AD 920
pop 3m

AD 940
steam engine -> magnetism

AD 980
Silk (D) Avalon - Teotihuacan (204) Magnetism -> gunpowder

AD 1000
Three barb legions camp outside Camelot

AD 1020
beat 2 legions, but lose to 3rd

AD 1040
bribe final legion. Gunpowder -> metalurgy

AD 1060
Thucydides reports we are 7th most powerful civ

AD 1100
Metallurgy -> explosives

AD 1120
Coal (D) Winchester - Teotihuacan (180) Silk (D) Camelot - Tenotichlan (192)

AD 1140
explosives -> theory of gravity

AD 1200
Gems (D) Winchester - Teotihuacan (212) theory of gravity->Electricity

AD 1220
100 for peace with celts + large number of techs for map Dye (D) Avalon - Cork (116)

AD 1240
Aztecs complete KRC everyone switches to Leo's

AD 1260
8 vans into Liverpool for Ike's Electricity -> railroad

AD 1280
Liverpool completes Ikes. make peace with americans and swap techs for map

AD 1300
railroad -> industrialization

AD 1320
Copper (D) Gloucester - Tenotlichlan (67)

AD 1340
Industrialization -> Atomic theory

AD 1400
Atomic theory-> economics

AD 1440
Norwich founded (65,45) Silk (D) York - Tintagel (160) Aztecs complete Leo's. everyone switches to Magellan's. economics -> corporation

AD 1460
Coal (D) Avalon - Chicago (70)

AD 1500
Corporation -> Democracy

AD 1510
Barb muskateers apear neer Avalon

AD 1520
Hides (D) Winchester - New York (112) bribe one muskateer. Democracy -> steel misread my oedo chart and revolted

AD 1540
English democracy founded Oil (ND) Liverpool - Teotihuacan (232)

AD 1550
we are 7th most powerful. Steel-> conscription

AD 1560
Hides (D) Winchester - Boston (160). Gems (D) Avalon-New York (152)

AD 1570
Dye (D) Liverpool-Washington (416) Cloth (D) Camelot-Boston (240) Hides (D) Winchester-Boston (172) Conscription->refining

AD 1580
Celts build Magellen everyone switches to Darwin's

AD 1590
Beads (nd) Liverpool-Washington (208)

AD 1600
Hides (d) Winchester-Boston (172) Combustion->Automobile

AD 1610
Gems (d) Camelot-Philadelphia (276) Dye (d) York-Tenochtitlan (108) Hides (d) Winchester-Boston (172)

AD 1620
Silk (d) Gloucester-New York (282) Automobile->electronics

AD 1630
Cloth (d) Avalon-Tlaxcala (165). 8 vans into Gloucester for Darwin's

AD 1640
York builds Darwins Electronics->Mass Production->Nuclear Fission. Silk (d) Camelot-Washington (300) Hides (d) Winchester-Boston (172) trade for horse riding and feudalism Nuclear fission->nuclear power

AD 1650
Hides (d) Winchester - Phiadelphia (168)

AD 1660
Nuclear power -> the laser

AD 1670
oil (d) York-Liverpool (357) Cloth (d) Avalon - Texcoco (145)

AD 1680
Meet indians pay 100 for peace and swap maps. Discover they were just north of us Laser->chivalry

AD 1690
Oil (nd) Liverpool-Washington (354)

AD 1700
Chivalry->Warrior code

AD 1710
swap with Aztecs for warrior code Gold (d) Norwich - Liverpool (408)

AD 1720
Dye (d) Winchester - Boston (180) Leadership->tactics

AD 1740
Cloth (d) Camelot-Texcoco (195) Dye (d) York - Atlanta (140) Tactics->machine tools

AD 1750
Cantebury founded (87,49)

AD 1752
Wine (d) Winchester-Tlateloco (215) machine tools->pottery

AD 1754
Swap with Aztecs for pottery. Cloth (d) Gloucester-Texcoco (205)

AD 1756
Give techs for peace with Zulus Miniturization->computers

AD 1758
Oil (d) Camelot-Texcoco (273) Silk (d) Norwich-Bombay (78) Buy a few shields to complete Hoover

AD 1760
Liverpool completes Hoover. Computers->Flight

AD 1764
Liverpool hits 1224 beakers per turn Cloth (d) Camelot-Tlatelolco (245) Wine (d) Winchester-Tlatelolco (215) Cloth (d) Avalon-Tlatelolco (210) Flight->radio

AD 1766
Liverpool drops to 952 beakers per turn

AD 1768
radio -> advanced flight

AD 1770
Dye (d) Winchester-Tenotchitlan (88)

AD 1772
Advanced flight -> mobile warfare

AD 1774
Cloth (d) Liverpool-Tlatelolco (565) Wine (d) Winchester-Tlatelolco (154) mobile warfare->rocketry

AD 1780
Gems (d) Avalon-NY (140) Rocketry->space flight

AD 1782
Celts build Adams

AD 1784
Cloth (d) Camelot-NY (154) Space flight->plastics

AD 1788
Gems (d) Avalon-NY (140) Plastics->polytheism

AD 1790
swap for polytheism with aztecs Dye (d) York-Boston (88) French attack Gloucester kill defender and 1 freight

AD 1792
bribe french frigate Superconductor->fusion power

AD 1798
Cloth (d) Liverpool - Tlateloclo (555) Fusion power->amphibious warfare

AD 1800
12 freight into Winchester for Apollo

AD 1802
Winchester builds Apollo gems (d) cantebury-NY (132)

AD 1804
build 3M, 3S, 1C

AD 1806
Wine (d) Winchester-Tlatelolco (150)

AD 1808
build 5S, 1C

AD 1810
build 2S, 1C

AD 1812
build 2s

AD 1816
Try to move Indians they declare war. build 1s, 1c

AD 1820
Launch 15-3-3-1-1-1 arrive 1835

AD 1822
Government collapses (sh1t)

AD 1825
Cease fire with Indians

AD 1827
Indians break cease fire

AD 1828
Democracy at last

AD 1835
AC arrival

	14-11-2003 18:46									#24
	Full PM-box? Change here!

RJM,

Whenever I have a bit of bad luck, all I have to do is read the log from one of your games to appreciate a real adventure in misfortune!

I've never seen such bad luck vs. the barbs as you had when losing two phalanxes plus a settler to one barb archer in Avalon! These defenders were probably fortified, too!

You also managed to fall into anarchy shortly after an Oedo turn, making anarchy last almost the maximum amount of turns! BTW, 1828 was a regular Oedo year, so it appears that the cycle is NOT adjusted after a launch to the 1 year increments, and that you ended up spending about 6 turns in anarchy, when the usual expected maximum would only be 4 turns. Can you verify this?

I'd also bet that if you had met the Indians earlier in the game, you might have arrived a few centuries earlier, too. Tech costs can easily double if the key civ happens to be way behind you in number of techs acquired.

	15-11-2003 11:41									#25
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

quote: Originally posted by solo Whenever I have a bit of bad luck, all I have to do is read the log from one of your games to appreciate a real adventure in misfortune! I've never seen such bad luck vs. the barbs as you had when losing two phalanxes plus a settler to one barb archer in Avalon! These defenders were probably fortified, too! You also managed to fall into anarchy shortly after an Oedo turn, making anarchy last almost the maximum amount of turns! BTW, 1828 was a regular Oedo year, so it appears that the cycle is NOT adjusted after a launch to the 1 year increments, and that you ended up spending about 6 turns in anarchy, when the usual expected maximum would only be 4 turns. Can you verify this? I'd also bet that if you had met the Indians earlier in the game, you might have arrived a few centuries earlier, too. Tech costs can easily double if the key civ happens to be way behind you in number of techs acquired.

Well it wasn't all bad luck. I still can't believe I didn't find the Indians. I had swapped maps with the Celts who had not discovered them at that point and I put all my energy into finding a (non-existant) safe trireme route to their cities. But I only needed to move 1 more tile and I would have found them, so it's down to bad play.

One of the phalanxes was moved in as a new defender, so wouldn't have had time to fortify. The other would certainly have been fortified.

As far as the anrchy is concerned, once again that was down to bad play. It was nearly the end and I was getting careless. I should have checked and realised that the single rushed temple was not going to be enough to sort out the problem. I can confirm that the dates I've given above are accurate, but I have no saves to verify it with.

Anyone with a save straight after launch care to watch their government fall in the interest of research?

RJM at Sleeper's

	16-11-2003 05:52									#26
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

RJM,

I will test Oedo years after a launch if I can find an appropriate save.

Besides being able to meet the key civ early, another good reason for making MPE the first wonder is that you can find the best trireme routes right after exhanging maps.

	17-11-2003 21:24									#27
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

quote: Originally posted by solo Besides being able to meet the key civ early, another good reason for making MPE the first wonder is that you can find the best trireme routes right after exhanging maps.

Wish it were so; if MPE is early enough to avoid the early wars, there is a lot of black space between civs that tells you nothing about how to get there. At least you find out the general direction. More important to me is the Intel screens and the KeyCiv tech gifting.

I finished an OCC landing over the weekend in 1801. I'll post details ASAP. I thought I was doing better than usual in the BC years; things seemed to slow down in the early AD years.

	17-11-2003 21:52									#28
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

Elephant,

General direction is usually good enough, and pointed me to a trireme route via the Indians in these games, although some black clicking may be needed to confirm exact routes.

RJM,

I did some Oedo tests after this game which confirmed a continued 4 turn cycle just as Elephant predicted.


OCC game using EL #6 start

In this one I wanted to try OCC without growing my city beyond 12 citizens, which I believe is the optimal size for an OCC game. Size 12 allows a tech every two turns after Automobile and also results in a low power rating, allowing more alliances and gifts. We’ll see how size 12 compares when others complete their OCC games using full-sized cities.

This game was played after my EL #6 game, so I had pre-knowledge of the map, although by building MPE instead of exploring, I do not think this pre-knowledge conferred any advantage over those playing OCC first, since no early explorations were undertaken before MPE was finished.

Following is a log of my game:

BC years

3750 Liverpool
3500 Alphabet
3150 settlers (using the size one trick)
3050 Code of Laws, warrior, size 2
3000 settler joins Liverpool, size 3
2950 warrior
2700 Writing
2400 library, barbs land nearby
2300 Bronze Working
2200 diplomat (this scared the barbs away)
1850 Literacy
1350 Republic
1300 revolution
1250 government to Republic
1050 size 4
1000 Currency
875 Trade
850 Marco Polo’s Embassy, Indians – trade for Map Making, Ceremonial Burial, Mysticism, peace, alliance, share maps, 100g gift; French – war; Aztecs – trade for Construction, peace, alliance, share maps, 200g gift

Not a bad payoff for MPE. Other techs available were Masonry, Warrior Code, Horseback Riding, and Pottery. Unknown techs being researched were Mathematics, Monarchy and Polytheism.

825 colosseum, we love begins; Zulus – give tech, peace, alliance, share maps; Celts – give tech, peace, alliance, share maps, 250g gift

800 temple, size 5
775 size 6
750 marketplace, size 7
725 size 8
700 acqueduct, size 9
675 size 10
650 French build Pyramids, size 11
625 Philosophy, Banking, size 12, we love ends, Celts – trade for Mathematics, 25g gift
600 salt, Americans – give tech, share maps
575 Celts – 50g gift
550 trireme, Celts – 50g gift
525 French – peace, share maps, give tech; Zulus – trade for Seafaring
500 beads, Celts – 25g gift
475 Celts – 25g gift
450 hides, Celts – trade for Iron Working, 25g gift; Aztecs – trade for Monarchy, give tech, share maps

375 Medicine, Americans – give tech, share maps
350 salt(d) to Teotihuacan, 360g
325 Aztecs – trade for Bridge Building, share maps; Zulus – trade for Polytheism, give tech, share maps; Indians – give tech, share maps

300 French – give tech, share maps
250 University
225 Celts – give tech, share maps, 50g gift
200 Colossus
150 dye, beads(d) to Teotihuacan, 414g
125 Economics
100 university built
50 food, French – give tech, share maps; Celts – give tech, share maps, 100g gift

AD years

1 food, Zulus – give techs, share maps
20 Chemistry, hides(d) to New York, 433g; Americans – trade for Astronomy; Celts – give tech

40 hides, Indians – trade for Horseback Riding, give tech, share maps
60 French – give tech, share maps
80 hides, Theory of Gravity
100 bribe barb legion, 82g
120 hides, French – give tech, share maps
160 hides
200 hides, The Wheel, dye(d) to Delhi, 464g
220 Copernicus’s Observatory, Engineering
240 dye
260 hides
280 hides, hides(d) to Madras, 600g
300 hides, Invention
320 hides
340 hides
360 hides
380 hides, Gunpowder; Zulus – trade for Monotheism, give tech, share maps; Aztecs – give tech, share maps

400 hides
420 Sir Isaac Newton’s College, Celts – 200g gift; Aztecs – trade for Physics; French – give tech, share maps, alliance, 250g gift

440 gems, Metallurgy, dye(d) to Madras, 352g
460 gold, barb caravel bribed, 82g
480 food, Democracy, Celts – 200g gift; Zulus – 100g gift; Aztecs – 50g gift; Americans – give tech, 150g gift

500 food
520 food
540 cathedral, Explosives, French – trade for Steam Engine, give tech, share maps; Zulus – 100g gift

560 food, Zulus – give tech, share maps; Celts 200g gift
580 food, hides(d) to Hlobane, 384g
600 food, Railroad, gems(d) to New York, 344g; revolution
620 dye, government to Democracy
640 food
660 food, Industrialization
680 food, Indians – give tech, share maps; barb leader – 150g
700 food, Celts – 100g gift
720 food, Atomic Theory, gold(d) to Hlobane, 412g
740 gold, French – 100g gift; Aztecs – 100g gift; Indians – give tech
760 Corporation, transport, Americans – trade for Conscription; Celts – 100g gift; Zulus – 75g gift; French – 50g gift; Aztecs – 100g gift; Indians – 50g gift

780 food
800 food, Indians – 50g gift
820 food, Refining, Aztecs – 100g gift; Indians – 50g gift
840 food, Celts – 100g gift; Indians – 50g gift
860 food, French – trade for Magnetism; Aztecs – 100g gift
880 food, Zulus – 100g gift
900 food, Electricity, gold(d) to Hlobane, 412g; dye(d) to Armagh, 328g
920 gold, French 100g gift; Americans – 100g gift
940 food, Combustion
960 food
980 food, Celts – give tech, share maps
1000 food, Steel, gold(d) to Hlobane, 618g; French – 50g gift; Aztecs – 50g gift; Americans – 200g gift; Indians – 100g gift

Getting gold was never a problem in this game.

1020 food, French – 50g gift; Americans – 50g gift
1040 Automobile
1060 superhighways, Americans – 50g gift; Indians – 50g gift
1080 food, Mass Production, Celts – trade for Chivalry, give tech, share maps; French 50g gift; Aztecs – 50g gift; Indians – 100g gift

1100 food
1120 Electronics, Zulus – 75g gift; Americans – 50g gift; Indians – 50g gift
1140 food, French – 50g gift
1160 Leadership
1180 food
1200 Tactics
1220 food
1240 Nuclear Fission, French – give tech, 200g gift; Celts & Zulus – give tech, share maps; Aztecs – 50g gift; Americans – 150g gift; Indians – 100g gift

The Zulus were just about to build Darwin’s so I gifted them all my techs. In this game, this tactic backfired, since they did not pick up anything I needed and also cancelled MPE by learning Communism! Oh well.

1260 Zulus build Darwin’s and learn Communism and Mobile Warfare, food, Americans – 50g gift; Indians – 50g gift

1280 Machine Tools
1300 food, Aztecs – 50g gift; Americans – 100g gift; Indians – 100g gift
1320 Miniaturization
1340 food
1360 Computers, Americans – 50g gift; Indians – 50g gift
1380 research lab
1400 gold, Nuclear Power, Celts – 250g gift; French – 125g gift; Aztecs – 50g gift; Americans – 50g gift; Indians – 100g gift

1420 Celts – 100g gift; Americans – 50g gift
1440 hides, Flight
1460 Celts – 50g gift; Zulus – 10g gift
1480 Zulus – 100g gift; gold(d) to Hlobane, 600g
1500 hides, Laser, Aztecs – 100g gift; Americans – 50g gift
1510 hides
1520 Radio, French - give tech, share maps; Celts – 100g gift; Americans – 50g gift
1530 hides
1540 Advanced Flight, French – trade for Navigation; Celts – 100g gift; Americans – 50g gift

1540 hides, hides to Teotihuacan, 198g
1560 Rocketry, Celts – 50g gift, hides to Armagh, 232g
1570 beads, Zulus – 50g gift; Americans – 50g gift
1580 food, Space Flight, hides to Armagh, 232g

By this time I had about 35 caravans/freights saved up.

1590 Apollo Program
1600 S #1, Plastics, Celts – trade for Warrior Code, alliance cancelled; hides to Armagh, 232g

1610 S #2
1620 S #3, Superconductor
1630 S #4, Zulus - 100g gift; Americans – 50g gift
1640 S #5, Celts – give tech, new alliance; Zulus – give tech, 100g gift; Americans – give tech, 50g gift

1650 S #6, beads to Marseilles, 230g, Zulus – give tech, 100g gift; Americans – 50g gift
1660 S #7, Fusion Power, Zulus – give tech, 100g gift; Americans – give tech, 50g gift
1670 S #8
1680 gold
1690 dye
1700 S #9
1710 S #10
1720 S #11, Zulus – 100g gift; gold(d) to Hlobane, 630g; dye(d) to Armagh, 464g
1730 gold
1740 S #12
1750 S #13
1752 S #14
1754 S #15
1756 M #1, gold(d) to Hlobane, 630g
1758 M #2, Fundamentalism
1760 M #3
1762 gold
1764 C #1, Aztecs – give tech, 250g gift; Zulus – give tech, 100g gift; French – give tech, Mobile Warfare as a gift; Aztecs – give tech, 50g gift; Americans – give tech, 150g gift; Indians – give tech, Masonry as a gift

1766 C #2
1768 C #3, gold(d) to Hlobane, 630g
1770 C #4, bribe barb rifleman – 82g, Celts – give tech, 250g gift; Zulus – 100g gift; French – Sanitation as a gift; Aztecs – 50g gift, Americans – 150g gift, Indians – Communism as a gift

1772 C #5, bribe barb rifleman – 82g
1774 C #6, launch 15-3-3-1-1-1, ETA 1789

I made a save here to use for Oedo year tests after a launch. In the tests it turns out that Oedo years continue in 4-turn increments after a launch. 1772 was an Oedo year, and the ones following the launch were 1777, 1781, and 1785, maintaining the 4 turn cycle. It did not matter on which turns I went into revolt.

1775 armor
1777 city walls
1779 coastal fortress
1781 SAM missile battery
1783 armor
1785 artillery
1787 engineers
1789 arrival on Alpha Centauri

This beats my time in the last OCC game using a full-sized city, but this SSC site is a bit better, having an extra trade special. I also lucked out with the placement of the small Zulu city of Hlobane, which allowed a very lucrative stream of gold trades during the second half of my game. We’ll wait and see how others did.

Last edited by solo on 17-11-2003 at 22:04

	17-11-2003 23:40									#29
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

"One Other" OCC#6

AC landing 1801

Governments-
Republic: learned 1400BC, switched 1250BC
Democracy: Americans developed 600AD, exchange 800AD, switch 860AD

Wonders-
MarcoPolo: 800BC (11 techs available, including Sea, Math, Wheel and Iron; took 4, plus 550 gold and 5 alliances)
Colossus: 100AD
Copernicus: 280AD
Shakespeares: 480AD
Newtons: 780AD
(Celts did Darwins in 960AD, took Communism and Electricity)
Apollo: 1700AD

SSC Stats-
Size 8: 575BC
Size 12: 475BC
Size 21: 660AD (stayed there a while)
Max size: 29 in 1610AD (max Shields 57)
1st TR: 150BC (Indians)
2nd TR: 225BC (Indians)
3rd TR: 80AD (Indians)

Tech Milestones-
Trade: 875BC
Invention: French got (hut?) 40AD; exchange 420AD (trying to prolong doubled delivery bonuses; probably delayed Engineers too long)
RailRoad: 620AD
Automobile: 1080AD
NucPower: 1550AD (I try to get NF and NP last before Flight)
Computers: 1460AD
Flight: 1600AD
SpaceFlight: 1680AD (doing 2 turns/tech, but Dye unblocked)

KeyCiv: MarcoPolo 800BC

Launch 15-3-3-1-1-1 1786AD, arrival 1801. All 6 alliances intact, all civs Enthusiastic.

I'm not at my playing machine right now; I'll post the exhaustive log, final save and CityScreen tonight.

I suggest adding "date SSC founded" to the Summary list...

Last edited by Elephant on 17-11-2003 at 23:47

	18-11-2003 06:27									#30
	Remove this text

Here's the SAV:

http://apolyton.net/upload/files/Elephant/sc_a1800.sav

And the Log:

http://apolyton.net/upload/files/Elephant/ELOCC6log.txt

LONDON at 1AD:



This was not bad. Luxuries could have been reduced to 10% with a Bank, but I was too busy churning out Food caravans. Gold was flowing in sporadically from 6 alliances, and I had a good 10-shield production line. I delayed Gunpowder to use the Warrior for PRBing 1-turn caravans a little too long, though. Two of those caravans were commodities, awaiting return of my single Trireme; I held the rest till I was sure I could cover both Colossus and Copernicus.

LONDON in 1590AD, max beakers (just before Flight):



Note the unblocked Dye commodity. I kept that open till the end, and a quick run to America or Mexico allowed several 1-turn techs. I lost Gems to an error: Boston had more trade than I thought.

Compared to Solo, I was only six turns off his landing date despite founding later, skipping the Size 1 Settler, and max-sizing later. Not bad.

Last edited by Elephant on 18-11-2003 at 06:59