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Lancer
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Oregon Coast, USA! or Bohol, Philippines!
Apr 1999
time: 05:31
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The conservative position is that it's a choice gays make, but I don't buy that anymore. In the Philippines I've witnessed gay kids...young, aged 5 or 6, behaving differently from other kids. Dolores said "he's gay". Well, at first I didn't think so, but she told me of a relative who acted gay while growing up. His father used to try to beat it out of the poor kid, to no avail. Sure, I could be wrong, but it will be interesting to see how the kid chooses his future. It may be that some are born gay and for others its a choice...though its hard to imagine someone adopting that choice.
So I think people, and maybe animals, are born gay. My brother's ass is gay. 
Discuss.
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Lancer
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Oregon Coast, USA! or Bohol, Philippines!
Apr 1999
time: 05:31
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Thing is, I don't believe anyone is abusing the kid, and at that age he's obviously not engaging in sex...he's just gay.
What makes me a bit curious is that if being gay is a sin, and being born gay is a fact, man...that's a tough hand to play.
Maybe a gay can refuse his impulses and go straight, I've heard of it. Change impulses? I couldn't. Become gay? No way. However maybe being gay is less right, or natural, so easier to leave behind. That may be offensive to some, but who knows?
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Comrade Tassadar
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quote:
Originally posted by Lancer
Thing is, I don't believe anyone is abusing the kid, and at that age he's obviously not engaging in sex...he's just gay.
What makes me a bit curious is that if being gay is a sin, and being born gay is a fact, man...that's a tough hand to play.
Maybe a gay can refuse his impulses and go straight, I've heard of it. Change impulses? I couldn't. Become gay? No way. However maybe being gay is less right, or natural, so easier to leave behind. That may be offensive to some, but who knows? |
Personally I doubt that being homosexual is a sin. I don't think God really cares whom we have sex with as long as we have a pure spiritual connection with them.
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Lancer
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Oregon Coast, USA! or Bohol, Philippines!
Apr 1999
time: 05:31
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CT, there are some bible verses against homosexuality...I heard them once. Not much on pulling verses out of the air though, so I can't tell you what they are. Maybe someone else here, equiped with a memory, has that ability? Gay related verses anyone?
Berzerker, I'm not argueing that, just saying it's a tough hand to be dealt.
Tuberski, I think of it this way. People are normally straight, else how do we get more people? The purpose of sex is to concieve. All the sex drives point to that end except homosexuality. So, it's an aberation, perhaps a birth defect? People have it to varying degrees, but many can overcome it to set themselves right. In this society would only be a help, not a driving force as you suggest.
"I believe the reason we see a lot of priests molesting little boys(the majority of cases), is that they were born gay in a strict upbringing were being gay is a sin. To deny themselves of being gay and being shunned, they become priests instead."
This is good, wish I would have thought of it.
Ramo, CT was joking but he's entirely correct. The kids acts gay. It's wierd. It's not a consious thing, it's his nature. Not like some gay guy acting fruity to be noticed, but just....gay.
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Rufus T. Firefly
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is one way of saying it, though I prefer "mensch"
Sep 2000
time: 07:31
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quote:
Originally posted by Ben Kenobi
You rang?
1 Corinthians 6:9-10
Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.
Romans 1:26-7
"Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones. In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion. "
Jude 1:7
"In a similar way, Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding towns gave themselves up to sexual immorality and perversion. They serve as an example of those who suffer the punishment of eternal fire. " |
See, this is where the question of translation is really, really important. Take the passage Ben quotes from 1 Corinthians. Pretty clear on the whole gay question, right? Except here's teh same passage from the King James Bible:
quote:
9: Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
10: Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God. |
And here it is again from the Revised Standard translation:
quote:
9: Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither the immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor sexual perverts,
10: nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor robbers will inherit the kingdom of God. |
The closest we get to homosexuality seems to be the King James' mention of being "effeminate" (so Liberace's not going to heaven, but Rock Hudson is?). Meanwhile, the Revised Standard instead inveighs against "perverts" (plenty of straight ones of those out there), and King James seems to condemn masturbation -- in which case, we're all in trouble.  
Beyond that, note that none of this comes from Christ, but from disciples and, indeed, disciples who never knew him (certainly Paul didn't; I don't think Jude did, but it scarecly matters, since Jude doesn't mention homosexuality).
I respect Ben, but I'd take those citations with a biiiiiiig grain of salt.
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mindseye
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A Yankee living in Shanghai
Apr 1999
time: 13:31
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quote:
Originally posted by DaShi
I have a friend who says she can tell the difference between gay Chinese guys and straight Chinese guys. Personally, I don't know how you can do it. Mindseye? |
Sometimes I can (both genders), but much less often than in the US. I think the biggest problem (in identifying them) is that people are not corralled into gay/straight pidgeon-holes here, as they are pressured to do back home. That means that there are plenty of more-or-less straight guys who dig chicks and would never seek out gay sex, but are not completely averse to it if the situation arises (cue my entrance ).
Also, since relatively open "gay-ness" is still pretty new here, many self-identified gay guys have few of the external trappings that gay westerners do (behavior, attire, etc). And of course, many are acting straight to avoid social pressures.
With the waters so horribly muddied, I just hit on any guy I think is cute, and then follow it where it goes. This means a high "dud" rate as well as occasional encounters with "straight" guys. All in all I am not complaining.
quote:
Personally, I don't know how you can do it. |
Here's a test for you: how about the female pop singer Han Hong (photo below)? A young lesbian-to-be in one of my classes said that she's ... well, you know.
Da Shi, are you planning on visiting "Hu-town" (Shanghai) any time soon?
 Attachment: hanhong.jpg
This has been downloaded 182 time(s).
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07-11-2003 09:20
ACK!
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