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UnityScoutChopper
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Brno, Czech Republic
Oct 2000
time: 06:31
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What the CEO said.
Because the AI's are so clueless at generating energy, and thus at researching, and just as importantly because they are so clueless about the importance of tech trading, I don't find the Datalinks all that useful. On the other hand, a weakness of mine is that I often restart if I get a crappy start position; the Datalinks could be a nice balancer in such games, if you manage to get all the way to Cyberethics before falling hopelessly behind in the tech race (leading to someone else nabbing it, as it's quite popular with the AIs). On the other other hand, if you play your cards right, trade will quickly get you most of what the Datalinks would quickly get you (most importantly the secret project techs, which are hard to get through trade before their associated projects are built), and some of what it won't (techs researched by one faction much earlier than others).
My advice:
- use your artifacts to either
a) build the most important early SP's, if they're not grabbed yet (priority: WP/HGP - opinions on which is better are divided, with WP being somewhat more popular, try of course to grab both; VW - better than HGP but more expensive and of course having both is even better; PTS - opinions are divided but personally I'd call it a "big-ticket" SP)
or
b) wait until you've caught up in the discovered-techs field, then use 'em.
4X games like SMAC are about small investments/returns growing to medium, big, and eventually humungous, and this choice is no exception. An artifact is worth 50 minerals towards an SP (and a free spy decoder if you send it to Kellogg's), which in at the very start means ~20 empire-turns' worth of minerals (i.e. your whole empire's mineral output for 20 turns, IF your empire's production stayed at 2-3 minerals on turns 1-21, so in fact ~15 is a more realistic estimate), and may likely be the deciding factor in getting an SP. 50 turns of astute play later, it may not even represent one empire-turn of minerals. Also, you will have access to supply crawlers, which will overcome the need to build in a single base. Meanwhile, with AAs cashed for tech, the equation is at first sight: early cashing means more empire-turns' worth of science output than later. However, they represent a greater absolute number of science points (only really important if you can run a paradigm economy, though) and, more importantly, as you and CEO have noted, AA's cashed for something you can easily get without one is a waste of an AA. So the equation is actually: they are much more powerful once you are in or near the tech lead.
With that in mind, weigh your decision based on the questions:
- Am I a) decisively behind, b) in the middle of the pack, or c) miles ahead in the SP race? Situation b) is where AAs for SPs are most useful.
- Am I close to Industrial Automation? If not, then a) get your butt on over to it, and b) in the meantime, AAs for SPs will be more powerful.
- Am I a) decisively behind, b) in the middle of the pack, or c) miles ahead in the tech race? Situation b) is where AAs for techs is least useful. Situation c) is where they are most useful.
Because I like to play huge and occasionally large maps, and because I prefer eggshell empires that sacrifice defense for economy, I'm not much of a probe-raper, and instead trade for most and VERY carefully choose some enemies from which to... acquire... the rest. It's true, though, that it's very difficult to obtain techs enabling currently-unbuilt SPs without probes. Generally to do so, you need to have acquired, due to the random number generator or astute diplomacy, a very good good attitude with a partner, and then they will sometimes be so generous. Another alternative is to flaunt a huge military. Even if you don't bully techs outright, it seems to improve their willingness to trade "sensitive" techs.
A couple last points:
quote:
I have just finished the Empath Guild, so I can now contact everyone. Half of them are pissed at me (why? we've only just met) and are ready to declare Vendetta, half of them grudgingly agree to a Treaty.
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The most important thing is to understand that there is ALMOST NO SUCH THING as a tech too sensitive to give up for peace. Giving the enemy, say, impact technology for peace gives you an impact-enabled, but temporarily peaceful neighbor. Denying it gives you a laser-enabled, hell-bent-for-war neighbor. (...and since the AI loves military techs, it may soon acquire impact tech anyway, and the AI is a warmonger even when at peace and often can only BENEFIT from actually using its overbuilt military, and on transcend it builds a hell of a lot of those troops, be they impact or laser, REALLY fast, quickly becoming a threat.) Generally, the former will hurt your position less.
quote:
Should I blow my artifacts and force the other factions to do their own research, or trade with them? They are offering level 1-2 techs for my level 2-3 techs.
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Despite its demandingness, the AI doesn't know how to trade its way out a paper bag. Trade e.g. your level-3 tech for a level-2 tech from each neighbor, and you still come out ahead. Also keep in mind that besides tech-for-tech, you can use money-for-tech, and the offers are often quite good.
Also keep in mind that the AI's don't really know how to USE most techs to their full potential. This goes double for non-military techs--take a look at AI territory and you'll find it's badly terraformed, under-terraformed, and completely uncrawled (no supply crawlers), and that the cities lack infrastructure. So for the AI to get more USE from a trade than you are, you'd have to trade level 4 vs. level 2 or so for military techs, and level 5 vs. level 2 or so for non-military techs.
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OK, let's wrap up this rambling. My most concrete advice without seeing a SAV:
- use your AA's for SP's if they can get you one you'd otherwise have to fight for, or if getting the SP x turns earlier is really powerful (e.g. the HGP on Transcend level if you're not at or neear the second bureaucracy warning yet)
- end those vendettas at any cost except an insane amount of money or declaring war another faction (hurts your rep IIRC)
- trade for what you can
- if you no longer have any enemies, find a faction that is probable but that can't really hurt you and demand that they leave your territory (even if they're not on it) in hopes of inciting a war
- probe-rape them
- cash the AA's if you judged them not useful for SPs.
USC
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UnityScoutChopper
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Brno, Czech Republic
Oct 2000
time: 06:31
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You're right about being ahead stirring up trouble in AC; there's an attitude penalty for it. (There is in all the Civs too.)
In Civ3 on the higher levels, it's impossible to get far ahead before the mid-midgame. In AC, even on Transcend, it's quite possible as early as the late early game, but if I am slightly ahead, I will still trade, as this actually tends to put me even farther ahead.
Remember: you both gain techs, but only YOU really know what to do with them. With the occasional exception, like D:AP, but there are exceptions to that exception too.
Appeasement:
I'm not saying caving in to tech demands is foolproof; sometimes they really will sneak attack anyway. But much of the time, appeasement is a bitter pill you can be really foolish not to swallow. "No techs for yo--whoops, I'm dead!"
USC
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Urban Legend
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Grail, you are talking about a Trans difficulty game correct?
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Grail Quest
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BC, Canada
Mar 2002
time: 05:31
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quote:
Originally posted by Urban Legend
Grail, you are talking about a Trans difficulty game correct? |
Ha ha ha!  Of course not.
I only play on Talent (and heck, with Civ, I wimp out and choose Chieftain level).
Makes for more relaxing games, IMO, than a desperate race with the AI for SPs in the early game--and they get something like a +2 or +3 Industry boost, don't they?
Sorry--not everyone who posts here is an AC guru, 'eh? 
*
Anyway, I've restarted to try two strategies:
(a) tighter base placement (2 tiles between bases on the short side, 4 tiles between bases on the long side) for accelerated colonization.
(b) researching depth and ignoring Conquer techs, which the AI, no matter what their faction, seems to like. For example, everyone's got Applied Physics.
Coordinating it with the Empath Guild and a sacrificial base (named "Lamb") for probing, I managed to get 4 techs from the University,  and 3 probes to Elite level.
Basically, I let the University research the techs popular with the AI, while I concentrated on key techs and going for depth (after lifting resource limits, I normally go for either Fusion Power or Air Power).
I made the mistake of taking the base back at a mere 17cr and giving it to the Believers to get a tech, but it cost me 175 to take it back (after inciting Drone riots three times for each of three consecutive turns, the price went down only 5cr and the 1-pop base never rioted) and the University is ignoring my comms (even though I framed the Spartans every time), so I can't give it back to steal Optical Computers from them. 
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Minute Mirage
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Helsinki
Aug 2003
time: 07:31
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quote:
Originally posted by UnityScoutChopper
In Civ3 on the higher levels, it's impossible to get far ahead before the mid-midgame. In AC, even on Transcend, it's quite possible as early as the late early game |
What's your definition of late early game? It's quite possible to be three times as powerful in the powergraphs as the second AI at the 2130's or 2140's by building the PTS.
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Mongoose
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Harrisburg,PA USA
Apr 1999
time: 00:31
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It's an option in the dialogue box when conducting the probe operation.
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Flubber
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With a view of the Rockies
Aug 2000
time: 22:31
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Just curious but will this option show up if you do not have your victim infiltrated and if so, could you see the list of techs and then decide not to probe at all ??
Hmm I may have to test this out . ..
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UnityScoutChopper
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Brno, Czech Republic
Oct 2000
time: 06:31
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quote:
Originally posted by Minute Mirage
What's your definition of late early game? It's quite possible to be three times as powerful in the powergraphs as the second AI at the 2130's or 2140's by building the PTS. |
YEAAAAAAGH, MM! I hope you're not really that good! Getting both IA and the minerals needed for a level-two secret project in the 2130's is unthinkable for me in most cases.
On the other hand, I was actually thinking of the science aspect alone, where with the right faction and sometimes even with the "wrong" one, I'm vastly more likely to be ahead in the 2130's than I am likely to have built the PTS by then. On the other other hand, I almost certainly won't be far enough in science in all branches (most notably the weapons branches), nor rich enough in minerals, to be already be spending artifacts on science in the 2130's. Yeesh!
I'll say, though, it's nice to see another PTS fan, as it is often pooh-poohed in favor of the VW (though actually, I too often risk losing the PTS before risking the loss of the VW).
USC
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Minute Mirage
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Helsinki
Aug 2003
time: 07:31
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quote:
Originally posted by UnityScoutChopper
YEAAAAAAGH, MM! I hope you're not really that good! Getting both IA and the minerals needed for a level-two secret project in the 2130's is unthinkable for me in most cases. |
Well, I'm playing with the University, so getting IA early is very easy. I'm currently playing from Sikander's start save in his builder game ( thread here ) and I got IA by 2115. I must confess that I didn't complete the PTS before 2141, but that's because I decided to build the VW on the same turn in order to be able to control the drones.
quote:
Originally posted by UnityScoutChopper
On the other hand, I was actually thinking of the science aspect alone, where with the right faction and sometimes even with the "wrong" one, I'm vastly more likely to be ahead in the 2130's than I am likely to have built the PTS by then. On the other other hand, I almost certainly won't be far enough in science in all branches (most notably the weapons branches), nor rich enough in minerals, to be already be spending artifacts on science in the 2130's. Yeesh! |
I usually use my artifacts for secret projects early on. Besides, I like to very careful with my beelines.
quote:
Originally posted by UnityScoutChopper
I'll say, though, it's nice to see another PTS fan, as it is often pooh-poohed in favor of the VW (though actually, I too often risk losing the PTS before risking the loss of the VW).
USC |
I'd still take the VW first, but both of them are very nice, especially with the University. I have to say that getting both the VW and the HGP with the Uni means no problem with the drones. In fact, I've found that there's no need to build recreation commons at all.
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johndmuller
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Capitol Hill, Colony of DC
Feb 2001
time: 00:31
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Perhaps it depends on the game version - SMAC vs SMAX, or upgrade/patch level.
I don't recall seeing the choice thing during regular probe operations either, but I do believe it, given the testimonials here. Must make a point of checking this out, as I know I have used the presumed lack of choice as a reason not to probe someone without first getting any outstanding techs from my allies, to avoid getting a duplicate. OTOH IIRC, I'm pretty sure I have been offered a choice of techs when conquering a base as the CyCon - and without infiltration too, I believe.
(BTW, when Spoils of War / Techsteal thing is on, it also applies to conquering a base militarily as well.)
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Mongoose
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Harrisburg,PA USA
Apr 1999
time: 00:31
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I am shamed to admit that my memory is faulty. I, too cannot find a way to steal a specific tech, though I would have sworn I had done so in the past.
Not the first time I have been wrong, won't be the last.
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Flubber
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With a view of the Rockies
Aug 2000
time: 22:31
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quote:
Originally posted by Mongoose
I am shamed to admit that my memory is faulty. I, too cannot find a way to steal a specific tech, though I would have sworn I had done so in the past.
Not the first time I have been wrong, won't be the last. |
I have also been given that option but I am wondering if you need a certain probe rating to do it-- I will take a look the next time I am probing someone
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Fazdaar
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I've always been given a choice to decide which tech I want to steal when I probe a base. It may be because I don't use probes much, so when I finally crank some out they already tend to be veteran or better so I've just never noticed this problem.
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07-11-2003 14:48
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