10-11-2003 16:37									#1
	C3C Tech Tree Poster and Reference Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

For those interested: I have made a C3C tech tree reference.

	10-11-2003 18:01									#2
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Thanks

	10-11-2003 22:01									#3
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Interesting civ traits charts.

Just a couple minor things:
1. Miniaturation. Internet was in PTW, so not new.
2. Combustion. I'd have to check editor, but I think destroyers now have sonar and can see subs.
3. Smart weapons, precision bombing is in PTW and may be in C3

For those of us whose eyes are getting worst, it would be nice to have a 4 page version.

Thanks,

-- PF

	11-11-2003 00:39									#4
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Thanks

	11-11-2003 01:15									#5
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Are the Koreans Sci, Com or Sci, Agr?

	11-11-2003 01:50									#6
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Looks veery nice, good job

	11-11-2003 01:56									#7
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quote: Originally posted by Louis XXIV Are the Koreans Sci, Com or Sci, Agr?

Sci, Com

	11-11-2003 02:02									#8
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Thanks, i'm getting excited about Conquests again after seeing this.. my new ADSL should allow me to play proper multiplay games with it I hope.

TECH TREE NOTES:

SATELLITES
much more powerful now they allow all the map available.. great for Extra Large maps or Scenarios.
My game has map trading only occuring with Navigation
(though the spanish can always map trade) so not all the map gets uncovered.
Would be better if this allowed u to see rough troop deployment.. where units are.

NATIONALISM : Police officers sound nice, but there are already enough bonuses for this tech, it would be better off in communism.

ESPIONAGE
Secret Police looks nice.. what does it do, another corruption reducer would be great, though it would be better under espionage.

IRONCLADS
great that this is a separate tech,
and the ironclad has much more useful stats, which should give it some use against destroyers and usable in the later game.
Hopefully this tech will not be needed for age progression.

Ancient Era
The new ancient ships look interesting, and the new wonders should allow players to manage to build a wonder.. normally I don't bother with ancient wonders.

Statue of zeus looks useful, and lasts all the way to mettalurgy.. giving ancient cavalry it seems very important.

ERRORS:

NAvigation should say Trade Allowed over OCEAN not sea.

Frigate stats are wrong.. i think its a3.d2.m4

	11-11-2003 02:35									#9
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Frigates were changed for C3C (I think they are 3.2.5, but they may be 2.2.5. They have 3 bombard though).

I brought up the Korean thing because they are listed as Sci, Agr - instead of Sci, Com

SPHQ acts as a third FP for Communist civs.

	11-11-2003 02:41									#10
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Ancient Calv are very nice. They can bust those spears much better than horsemen. I got to wonder if getting them free every five turns is not a bit strong. I keep hoping to get an army to stick them into and see how they do. They start with 5 HP's and if you slap a barracks in the city and get vets, man. Elites with 6 HP's and jam them in an army. I know Arrain will be drooling.

	11-11-2003 04:02									#11
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Slow down vmxa1,

Chart shows ancient cavs as 3.2.2. What is confusing is mod in conquest 2, with heavy cav's. But instead of spearman they are against 10 unit cost similar to spears but with 1.3.1 ratings. Sorry can't recall name, something like guard. The fire catapaults are fun to play with.

Don't forget the Hitties that get 3 man chariot with the wheel!!

-- PF

	11-11-2003 04:49									#12
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Disagree with satelights; I've always had a resonable accuracte map by early industrial era and a complete map with no undiscovered tiles by late industrial era in my games.

quote: Originally posted by Admiral PJ Thanks, i'm getting excited about Conquests again after seeing this.. my new ADSL should allow me to play proper multiplay games with it I hope. TECH TREE NOTES: SATELLITES much more powerful now they allow all the map available.. great for Extra Large maps or Scenarios. My game has map trading only occuring with Navigation (though the spanish can always map trade) so not all the map gets uncovered. Would be better if this allowed u to see rough troop deployment.. where units are. Frigate stats are wrong.. i think its a3.d2.m4

	11-11-2003 06:49									#13
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quote: Originally posted by planetfall Chart shows ancient cavs as 3.2.2. What is confusing is mod in conquest 2, with heavy cav's. But instead of spearman they are against 10 unit cost similar to spears but with 1.3.1 ratings. Sorry can't recall name, something like guard. The fire catapaults are fun to play with. Don't forget the Hitties that get 3 man chariot with the wheel!! -- PF

Yeah, I am not comparing them to the new UU, but just how they are so much better to send against a spear than a horsemen.
322 is much better than 212. Sorry about the enthusiasim.

	11-11-2003 08:42									#14
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Uhmmm....

I'm not seeing the UU for the Sumerians anywhere on the chart.

	11-11-2003 20:22									#15
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Spearman Unit is garrison. Both spear and garrison cost 10s. spear is 1.2.1 and garrison is 1.3.1. Why build garrison? Would have been nicer to have garrison as upgrade to spear so spear no longer shows on menu. I built a few too many spears before I figured out garrison was a unit and not a barracks with a different name.

-- PF

	11-11-2003 20:27									#16
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vmxai,

Wnat to drool? ancient cavs are nice with 3.2.2 but heavy cavs are 5.2.2. See scenario #2, Rise of Rome.
You can have a lot of fun with Goths {Germans}, Mecadia(sp?) {Greeks}, Carthiagians, and maybe Persia and Mongolist tribe if you can get to their distant territory.

Time limited to 130 turns, short tech tree but still fun to play once. Disadvantage is limited tech tree and time limit, no option to continue in epic like game.

-- PF

	11-11-2003 20:28									#17
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Corrected version uploaded.

	11-11-2003 23:59									#18
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quote: Originally posted by planetfall vmxai, Wnat to drool? ancient cavs are nice with 3.2.2 but heavy cavs are 5.2.2. See scenario #2, Rise of Rome. You can have a lot of fun with Goths {Germans}, Mecadia(sp?) {Greeks}, Carthiagians, and maybe Persia and Mongolist tribe if you can get to their distant territory. Time limited to 130 turns, short tech tree but still fun to play once. Disadvantage is limited tech tree and time limit, no option to continue in epic like game. -- PF

I will probably not play any scenarios for at least a year. I tend to wait until I have had enough of Civ. Then I can use them to may it fun again. By then any tweaks will have come out.
But yes that sounds like a monster.

	12-11-2003 19:57									#19
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Updated version uploaded. Now includes civ starting techs and tech research costs.

	12-11-2003 20:13									#20
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quote: Originally posted by planetfall For those of us whose eyes are getting worst, it would be nice to have a 4 page version. -- PF

I'm with Planetfall on this...my eyes are getting worse as a I age. It would be much easier for me to read if it were spread out across 4 pages instead of crammed into 2.

Having said that, I am very grateful that somebody has at least taken the time to do this much with it. Thanks Kuratko!

	12-11-2003 20:20									#21
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quote: Originally posted by vmxa1 Yeah, I am not comparing them to the new UU, but just how they are so much better to send against a spear than a horsemen. 322 is much better than 212. Sorry about the enthusiasim.

I haven't had the chance to take them for a spin yet (no ivory so far) but the thought of an ancient era army (3/2/3 blitz) against spearmen in towns has me drooling.

	12-11-2003 21:16									#22
	4 page? Increase the size of your Attachments

I am sorry guys, the 4-page version would need a complete reformatting and I am not going to do that. What might help you is to use A3 format printer and set the page to fit the whole area. Alternatively, some printer drivers (e.g. HP OfficeJet) allow "poster printing", i.e. to enlarge a single page across multiple sheets. Since the whole tech-tree is vectorial (except for resource icons), it should scale well.