11-11-2003 02:34									#1
	France - Terminal decline, or just misunderstood Suffering from ads?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/3252907.stm

Is France in terminal decline ?? A once proud European imperial power, its Language and culture exported to all parts of the world, now struggling to find its place,with ethnic troubles at home, and sepratist movements in Corsica.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/3198065.stm

Or is this a picture of France you do not recognise ?

Where do you see France in 20 years time ?

Stronger ? Weaker ?

	11-11-2003 02:36									#2
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i see france in 20 years a colony of germany.

well, if germany decides to actually try to be germanic conquerors again.

	11-11-2003 02:45									#3
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I think you could apply a lot of that to Britain, and no-one seems to be complaining there.

	11-11-2003 02:51									#4
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Sure.. yes you could, but lets talk about France..

	11-11-2003 02:51									#5
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I like France.

However, I think they have a big need to show the world that they are strong and independent. Everyone has this need, but I think France has it more than most.

I think because of this need they sometimes do annoying things, just to show how independent they are.

Just my opinion. My own country does stupid things (who's doesn't?) but for different motivations.

In 20 years time I think France will just be closer and closer to Germany (and the rest of Europe.) This:
1. makes sense for them to do
2. seems to be something they can live with, as opposed to being closer to the US.

I don't think they will be dramatically weaker or stronger than they are today. Other nations are changing much faster, like China.

	11-11-2003 02:59									#6
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My own personal opinion is that, having been to France a few times, it looks as though its had worse times, and still lived to tell the tale.

Sure there are problems, social, economic .. but where isn't there ??

There is no need for a French person born today to be ashamed of their past, and every reason for them to look forward to an interesting future.

I agree, Frances future is firmly in the EU, and they are right to put a great deal of emphisis on that relationship.

I don't see France being any weaker or stronger. Ethnic troubles will come and go, but on the whole all people realise its in their own interest to get along.

Im sure our childrens children (and I say this as a Brit) will still be learning French in school, and developing love hate relationships with the place, just as we do today.

Long live France, and long live the distrust that binds us (UK/France) together within the EU .. the day we agree, I fear we may go our seperate ways.

	11-11-2003 03:00									#7
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So they are ashamed today because Vichy meant defeat to them, and we are ashamed today because we defeated them Makes Germany and France a perfect duo

	11-11-2003 03:15									#8
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20 years time? Won't it be on the 23rd or 24th Republic by then?

	11-11-2003 03:19									#9
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I wanna go to France.

	11-11-2003 03:25									#10
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France has the highest birth rate in the EU. They regularly jostle with Britain for 4th largest economy status. They have the best healthcare system and rail network in the world.

On the other hand, France could be seen of as something of a failure historically. It lost out to Britain colonially, thus sealing English as the world language. Its population growth, though reasonable now, trailed behind Britain and Germany, making it second-rate in Europe as well as colonially. Could have had 100m people had the demographic conditions been different.

Corsica is hardly an issue; the vast majority of the population don't support independence.

	11-11-2003 03:29									#11
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I agree with nato and Viceroy here...we've had much worse times before, don't expect the Grande Nation to fall like that so fast

I hope I'll live old enough to see a strong and united Europe, which is clearly the way to go for my country (too bad some politicians don't realize it ).

	11-11-2003 03:32									#12
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France is not going anywhere anytime soon.. like it or not.

	11-11-2003 03:39									#13
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quote: They have the best healthcare system ...in the world.

I guess last summer was a bad example, eh?

France is fine, I just like picking on them. I do, however, think that if they can't bend with the wind they will break. It always perplexes me how France, as a dominant influence in the EU, can have people that are so Xenophobic while supporting a continental unity. IF they cannot learn to excpet the changing times they will be left behind, or absorbed as a puppet by Germany.

	11-11-2003 03:43									#14
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quote: I guess last summer was a bad example, eh?

They weren't used to the heat, and didn't have the infrastructure to cope with it. As someone said, do you think Florida would do any better if it suffered from a prolonged cold snap?

	11-11-2003 03:51									#15
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I'm not claiming that Florida has a great healthcare system. Stating that a good health care system and good rail system has anything to do with the stability of country is, IMO, noncomplimentary. Yet, a weak infrastructure, poor (or seemingly poor) foreign relations, along with an inability or lack of desire for a country to change with the times are good benchmarks for the decline of a country.

	11-11-2003 03:55									#16
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Um...yes.

	11-11-2003 03:56									#17
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I also wonder if the 'need' for an organization such as the EU represents lack of financial strength within the individual countries to compete with other growing nations. The major concern I have with the EU is instances in which individual domestic and/or foreign policies collide with economic and fiscal policies. I could see France being required to sagway to fiscal compromises in lieu of domestic security, culture, and desires. Such compromises can cause great unrest within a country or cause the 'power' of a country to fade, instead yeilding such power to the greater organization.

	11-11-2003 03:58									#18
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France has a terminal case of dumbass.
The prognosis is grim.

	11-11-2003 04:02									#19
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quote: I'm not claiming that Florida has a great healthcare system.

Fair enough.

quote: Stating that a good health care system and good rail system has anything to do with the stability of country is, IMO, noncomplimentary.

I never mentioned stability. Strawman!

quote: Yet, a weak infrastructure, poor (or seemingly poor) foreign relations, along with an inability or lack of desire for a country to change with the times are good benchmarks for the decline of a country.

Yes, America must change it's ways.

	11-11-2003 04:07									#20
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quote: I never mentioned stability. Strawman!

So these pointers;

quote: France has the highest birth rate in the EU. They regularly jostle with Britain for 4th largest economy status. They have the best healthcare system and rail network in the world.

indicate what? I thought these were indicators of Frances strength and stability as a world power, or did I misinterprit?

quote: Yes, America must change it's ways.

I agree, but this is not a US bashing thread, there plenty of those. This a France bashing thread, something I have yet to resort to, but could easily do so if provoked. With comments like these being slung from both sides of the arguments that cause them nothing will surely be done.

	11-11-2003 04:12									#21
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quote: This a France bashing thread

Nahhh ... Its a Thread about the future of France ..

But if it lets you get it off your chest .. bash away (just don't expect a easy time of it).

	11-11-2003 04:16									#22
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quote: So these pointers; indicate what? I thought these were indicators of Frances strength and stability as a world power, or did I misinterprit?

Strength doesn't = stability. If I had considered France a stable society I would have said so. But it isn't. Like most others.

	11-11-2003 04:18									#23
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Just read the title. Don't know if France is in decline (actually I do and it isn't) but the English/American "small d!ck" syndrome vis a vis the French never ceases to entertain me

	11-11-2003 04:19									#24
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Thead about France !! Just incase you'd forgotten

	11-11-2003 04:20									#25
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France's future lies pretty much with eruope's future..unless somethign radical happens, the future of all of western Europe will be more and more intertwinned. So to answer the question of France's future, you have to figure out Europe's as well.

	11-11-2003 06:00									#26
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quote: They have the best healthcare system and rail network in the world.

No they don't.

	11-11-2003 06:07									#27
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in 20 years, i also expect them to be appendages to a greater american and asian economic sphere.

	11-11-2003 06:13									#28
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quote: No they don't.

Yes they do.

	11-11-2003 06:14									#29
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no, they don't. i'd have to say the best rail system is either german or japanese.

	11-11-2003 06:26									#30
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quote: Originally posted by SlowwHand France has a terminal case of dumbass. The prognosis is grim.

Ah, Ming's let you out of your cage?