12-11-2003 01:49									#31
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

quote: Originally posted by Boris Godunov While I think really good initial planning can avoid most problems in this regard (and I honestly think Civ3 suffered from poor initial planning and a scattershot "we'll try to please everyone!" mentality), changes in design and intent of function will be inevitable.

And I'm sure it didn't help that a large part of the developement team left part way through the project to form their own company. Those kind of things will make even the best plans go awry.

	12-11-2003 04:17									#32
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

quote: Originally posted by Boris Godunov Well, never let it be said there was a shortage of game fans with a misplaced sense of entitlement.

Amen to that

	12-11-2003 12:10									#33
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

I guess all I am trying to say is I want a game that I can play when I open the box and install the game onto the computer. I don't want to worry about waiting for patches in a future date. I want it all when the game comes out. If it takes longer so be it. Let the game take longer to come out.

I got burned with Civ3 gold edtion and got very burned with Moo3. Had to wait for patches for both games to become enjoyable.

At least with Civ3 three we didn't have to wait 6 freaking months for the game to be enjoyable.

I guess since these are Atari products that would be a good explanation.

I just wish we could all get together and never buy an Atari product as soon it's released. We should all wait
4-6 weeks and then buy the game as the first patch should be out buy then. Then maybe publishers won't be pushing the desingers for a rushed game that is incomplete.

I guess all I am trying to say is the computer gamining industry, heck computer software industry better stop this product out first then patch later mentality. No wunder alot of people pirate software lots of times.

	12-11-2003 12:38									#34
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: I got burned with Civ3 gold edtion and got very burned with Moo3. Had to wait for patches for both games to become enjoyable.

You are waiting for Civ3 patches after buying Civ3 Gold?

Don't hold your breath.

	12-11-2003 12:54									#35
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

brian is god

	12-11-2003 12:55									#36
	Tired of ads?

brain is dog?

	12-11-2003 13:08									#37
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

Brain is dead

	12-11-2003 13:18									#38
	Tired of ads?

Microprose lives on in our hearts and hard drives.

	12-11-2003 15:55									#39
	Full PM-box? Change here!

quote: Originally posted by Comrade Tassadar I would rather have a game with good gameplay but bad AI (SMACX) rather than bad gameplay and cheating AI (Civ3)

Or a game with cheating AI that was still bad (SMACX).

	12-11-2003 16:57									#40
	Increase the size of your Attachments

quote: Originally posted by Comrade Tassadar It's pleasing in it's own way but there really is no contest between Civ3 and SMACX.

Which makes me wonder why do you care about stack combat in civ3. Would such a tiny detail make the game worth playing, even when you have on your computer an awesome game such as SMACX?

	12-11-2003 19:10									#41
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

Game producers don't do stuff like this.

	12-11-2003 23:44									#42
	Keeping in touch Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Hey gang,
Thought I'd chime in here (while dodging the occasional barb thrown Atari's way). There are a lot of good comments in this thread. Don't think that we at Atari and Firaxis are ignoring them.

Software development in any industry is a tricky endeavor, and a developer/publisher team does not always have the luxury of continuously delaying and pouring money into a project until it is perfect. That said, you should know that we at Firaxis and Atari have recommitted ourselves to creating quality strategy products. I think Civ Conquests has been a fine example of that. Even after executing a very strong beta program, we continued to delay the final release of the product until we were positive it was ready for release. We did not arrange for any advertisements or special placements in retail stores because those arrangements must be made months in advance, and we did not want anything to affect our go/no-go decisions for this product. The initial reviews, both from the media and from fans, are a direct result of these efforts. In today's competitive gaming industry, no one can afford to intentionally put out a game that has issues and expect to maintain a business.

I feel a personal obligation to the community of Civ fans to make sure that you are well-informed about our efforts, which is why I have taken a more active role on these forums. We all take a lot of pride in the games we create and publish, and I hope that by our continued involvement with the fan community and beyond, some of our pride will shine through.

Best,
Jeff Foley
Sr. Brand Manager
Atari

	12-11-2003 23:50									#43
	Remove this text

Jeff, that's for the note. Great product! I think most appreciate the fact that you do solicit information from such sources as Apolyton. Its great that you guys get on the board and post message and interact with the hard core civ fans!

	12-11-2003 23:51									#44
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

Thanks for your comment.

However, would you care to comment on Alexman's findings below, or how soon this serious oversight can be fixed?

http://apolyton.net/forums/showthre...threadid=101387

	13-11-2003 01:48									#45
	Re: Keeping in touch Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

quote: Originally posted by Jeff_ATARI we at Firaxis and Atari have recommitted ourselves to creating quality strategy products.

turning over a new leaf are they?

	13-11-2003 03:22									#46
	Full PM-box? Change here!

Thanks for your response and comments, Jeff. Good luck with the barb-dodging.

	13-11-2003 03:52									#47
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

They never change - but at least they reply

	13-11-2003 04:19									#48
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

Though they have to be careful with their replies.

Remember how it was up to the MoO3 release, with Rantz and Chantz being so active on the forums, that people actually got mad and started to whine whenever they didn't reply to a post?

Asmodean

	13-11-2003 04:26									#49
	Full PM-box? Change here!

quote: Originally posted by Comrade Tassadar Though SMACX was a very deep game both in terms of gameplay and intellectually...

I won't deny this, it is one of my favorites.

	13-11-2003 05:44									#50
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

gone now forever....

	13-11-2003 06:44									#51
	Suffering from ads?

It's not gone. I saw a new bundle pack in the stores just the other day.

	13-11-2003 09:33									#52
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

quote: Originally posted by Alexander's Horse I hope firaxis doesn't make civ 4 - give it to BHG!!!

	13-11-2003 12:04									#53
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

quote: Originally posted by Yolky I guess all I am trying to say is I want a game that I can play when I open the box and install the game onto the computer. I don't want to worry about waiting for patches in a future date. I want it all when the game comes out.

You should buy Galactic Civilizations. Though it's been patched many times (many user suggestions, AI tweaks, and enhancements), and had a free expansion pack released, it worked just fine out of the box.

	13-11-2003 15:57									#54
	Re: Will Firaxis sign an agreement before making Civ 4 Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by Yolky Will the memeber of Firaxis signan agreement like politicians did here in Ontario (stating they would do this or that, like a contract) ... What do you guys think? Davor

Well, I'm not sure how old you are but I'm going to assume you're fairly young? Politicians sign a lot of things but that doesn't mean they actually do anything about it. Like forcing auto insurance rate deductions in NB - they signed papers saying that rates had to decline by 20% as of July 15th, 2003. Have the rates declined? NOPE!

Did you know that Bernard Lord (premier of NB) got on the news on Remembrance Day and said that he was going to look at the fact that Remembrance Day (Memorial Day for our US compatriots) was not a mandatory holiday because HE DIDN'T KNOW! The leader of the province didn't know the holiday status of Nov 11th. What kinda faith does that give you in what they may or may not put onto paper?

	13-11-2003 16:46									#55
	Full PM-box? Change here!

quote: Will the memeber of Firaxis signan agreement like politicians did here in Ontario (stating they would do this or that, like a contract)

Read my lips....!!!!

	13-11-2003 19:08									#56
	Re: Will Firaxis sign an agreement before making Civ 4 Put an end to popups!

quote: Originally posted by Yolky Let them sign an agreement for us that when they make Civ 4 it will have what they said will have.

I thought you were talking about an agreement with a company. No, they won't sign an agreement for the consumers, they don't need to. We'll buy it anyway.

	14-11-2003 19:01									#57
	Re: Re: Will Firaxis sign an agreement before making Civ 4 Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

quote: Originally posted by G'Kar I thought you were talking about an agreement with a company. No, they won't sign an agreement for the consumers, they don't need to. We'll buy it anyway.

it is a shame that there is no accountablity for these companies...

at the end of the day, I still play the game