13-11-2003 03:17									#1
	New Unit Idea: Repair Ship Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

i was just playing a highly naval game, and i was again confronted with the whole "ships cant heal at sea" problem. well, i was a long way from home, and my ships were banged up bad.

i was thinking of ways to balance it properly, and this is my idea: a repair ship that could heal 1 HP of 1 ship each turn, and BOTH ships would have to expend all movement (ie, you couldn't move and heal at the same time).

so, for a fleet of 15 ships, you'd need a lot of them to keep halthy at sea.

any ideas? i dont think this can be done by anyone but Firaxis really, so i'll just throw it out and hope

this could also be done like RoN, to have supply wagons for land units, and heal real slowly in enemy territory without battleifld medicine.

	13-11-2003 03:21									#2
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units (not ships) heal in C3C in enemy territory without BM, with BM they will heal faster IIRC.
-
It has potential though

	13-11-2003 03:23									#3
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I would add and additional, complimentary idea. You can repair ships in ally's harbors. We all know the story of being far from home, and nursing some wounds!

I like the repair ship idea. Perfect target for the subs!

	13-11-2003 03:31									#4
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I like Shogun's idea better. I'm not sure how realistic repair ships are, but you definitely should be able to station and heal units (land, sea, and air) in allied cities as if they were your cities. Of course, this is probably impossibly difficult to do with the current engine.

	13-11-2003 03:37									#5
	Put an end to popups!

quote: Originally posted by RobC I like Shogun's idea better. I'm not sure how realistic repair ships are, but you definitely should be able to station and heal units (land, sea, and air) in allied cities as if they were your cities. Of course, this is probably impossibly difficult to do with the current engine.

IIRC, you could heal land units in Civ2, by positioning next to the allied civ city square and attempting to enter it. Your unit wouldn't enter the city, but it would instantly heal your unit to full power.

I guess that's what I'm thinking could be the mechanism in C3C, but I don't know if current programming would support that, so your point is taken.

	13-11-2003 03:40									#6
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quote: Originally posted by Shogun Gunner I would add and additional, complimentary idea. You can repair ships in ally's harbors. We all know the story of being far from home, and nursing some wounds!

they had that in civ2.

	13-11-2003 03:46									#7
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What constitutes an ALLY? if it's just an ROP, it's too easy to be exploited by the human player.

	13-11-2003 03:49									#8
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in civ2 allies were just allies. you didnt need ROP, cause you could use enemy roads just like your own. i'd say MPP would work for this purpose.

	13-11-2003 04:19									#9
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I have not paid much attention to ships so far, but I thought healing was possible in C3C. I don't see anything in the doc though.

	13-11-2003 04:27									#10
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Not that im aware of. I've fortified ships on sea tiles and they don't heal.

Uber, I think a high level of committment is required for allied port usage/healings. I'm thinking ROP/MPP requirement. If this is a feature for the next expansion, they might as well throw in a new diplomacy option to go with it. Anything to increase the cost of this option is desirable since I am concerned it wil be too easily exploitable.

Another idea i have is if a civ has a relations annoyed or below, you won't get this special deal for healing ships and units in their territory. They simply wouldn't accept it.

	13-11-2003 04:34									#11
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Edit: And naturally, the AI should be able to use this too, and ask this agreement with human and other AI players.

	13-11-2003 05:46									#12
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uber, do i understand your post that you are against the idea of repairing ships in friendly ports (whatever the specific diplomatic arrangements are)?

	13-11-2003 05:47									#13
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Or, alternatevely, make it Multiplayer Only.
I personally wouldn't mind seeing more (easy-ish to make/not too difficult ) features/options that are MP only.

	13-11-2003 06:19									#14
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quote: Originally posted by Shogun Gunner uber, do i understand your post that you are against the idea of repairing ships in friendly ports (whatever the specific diplomatic arrangements are)?

no, im sorry. let me clarify.

the "shame" ( ) was on the fact that it was one of many things in civ2 not carried over into civ3.

	13-11-2003 06:32									#15
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Ah, got it. Well hopeful "allied port repair" and your idea of repair ships will find its way into civ4.

I wouldn't mind a stab at supply rules/units/whatever in foreign land or water far away from your port...but that's another story for another thread...

	13-11-2003 08:46									#16
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Another idea would be to introduce a new small wonder (in the late industrial or modern era) which would allow ships to heal at sea at a rate of 1 hp/turn by resting. It could be called "Naval Engineers" or something like that.

	13-11-2003 18:13									#17
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quote: Originally posted by Uber KruX in civ2 allies were just allies. you didnt need ROP, cause you could use enemy roads just like your own. i'd say MPP would work for this purpose.

Now that is a good idea. As is, I NEVER sign MPPs becuase I end up in wars not of my making/liking. But if having an MPP added value (repairing units in partners cities), then I would definitely start using them.

Take note Firaxis/Breakaway!!

	13-11-2003 18:43									#18
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An MPP or Mil Alliance should grant the "heal in ally's harbors" benefit.

	13-11-2003 18:46									#19
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Although... the inability to heal your vessels half way around the world may accurately model the fact that in order to have a navy that strides the globe you need overseas bases. Perhaps this is one point of having those island cities or outposts on other continents.

I think I'm against healing ships or self healing at sea, it's not realistic. But you should be able to heal in friendly cities.

	13-11-2003 22:01									#20
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Depends on damage....if you ship is pretty well shot up, or it took a torpedo or two under the waterline, there is no choice but dry dock repair. I guess that would apply to modern ships more than wooden ships.

In the age of wooden ships, it seems more reasonable to effect *some* repairs at sea...riggings, stitching up sails, patch holes using pitch, etc.

	14-11-2003 06:59									#21
	I had always thought... Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

I had always thought a Naval Unit similar to the Leader Unit would be great, so you could stack ships to be armadas. A Naval Leader unit. Ummm... Grand Admirals... or something like that.

Sort of off topic, but what the heck.

Additional train of thought that brought this on was that using the Leader units to heal units, that's why I replied to this thread.

I love it when my little monkey brain works, especially after 15 hours of work... gotta play some Conquests... arrrgh need sleep... but just one more turn... shut up rational brain. MONKEY BRAIN RULES

Last edited by Uncle Thade on 14-11-2003 at 07:04

	14-11-2003 08:36									#22
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A repair ship is a good idea.

	14-11-2003 09:11									#23
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I like this feature. It makes it so you need to establish bases far from home.

	14-11-2003 09:53									#24
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in an ideal world, ship repairs would be free in an ally's ports. On the other hand, you could for example pay a small amount to heal in a neutral civ's port. I doubt that would be implemented in a future patch though.

	14-11-2003 10:09									#25
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

And perhaps heal to (full HP -1).

( Hey, you can't expect to have any harbour around the globe to have the exactly right tool/spare part for what you just happen to need )

	14-11-2003 14:15									#26
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Master Zen
That is good idea, I liked the 'heal unit'-ability in civ2.

To repair a ship all you would have to do was to find a city with a port, choose 'heal ship in friendly port' from a menu and then you would get a response like 'bugger off you aggressive imperialist', 'that would be 15 gold please' or 'We'll do it for free for such a good ally, I can also recommend the taverna Beer,Breasts and BrassBands to your sailors'

	14-11-2003 21:29									#27
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Repair ship added strategical depth to MilitariZm (c) and would probably be good for civ3. The only trouble is that in militarizm-pbem it was also refuel ship, while supply system of Civ3 is very simple...

	14-11-2003 23:50									#28
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quote: Originally posted by alva And perhaps heal to (full HP -1). ( Hey, you can't expect to have any harbour around the globe to have the exactly right tool/spare part for what you just happen to need )

Good point, unless you had a strategic military relationship a la NATO. I remember a number of initiatives started in the 70's and 80's to standardize equipment across all NATO armies/navies. Doesn't seem like Civ is quite that sophisticated yet.

Lots of great ideas in this thread. Hopefully some common denominator can be introduced in the future.

Funny thought regarding bongo's post. If the neutral/allied port allowed your navy boys off the ship during repairs you could represent the "cultural influence/cultural contamination" (your pick) by one population unit of the city changing to your civ's ethnicity. Okay, i know the numbers in question don't support this level of realism...

	15-11-2003 00:08									#29
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Or just lower the war weariness a bit.

	15-11-2003 00:22									#30
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Magic ship casts Healing on Destroyer. Destroyer is fully healed