17-11-2003 19:41									#91
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quote: what I view to be the "perfect relationship" (something based on my philosophy and logic, and would take too long for me to describe here).

Oh dear. You may be in for serious disappointment. In my experience, there is very little "philosophy and logic" involved in relationships. Love doesn't really work that way. I don't really know how it works, but it sure as **** ain't logical.

Good luck nonetheless.

-Arrian

	17-11-2003 19:42									#92
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She's a lesbian.


Spec.

	17-11-2003 19:48									#93
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quote: what I view to be the "perfect relationship" (something based on my philosophy and logic

Oh god, the less you involve philosophy and logic and relationships the better.

	17-11-2003 20:18									#94
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quote: Originally posted by Spec She's a lesbian. Spec.

Not quite. But for awhile she was so disgusted with boys that she'd only mess around with girls.

Boshko and Arrian: This logic of mine isn't talking about love, it's talking about something that happens to do with love, that's all. And I know most people find this opinion of mine abhorrent, but without me going into a lengthy exposition about my thoughts on practically everything, it's not worth it to try to defend my stance. I'll just say that it is unlikely that you will alter how I think on this one.

	17-11-2003 20:39									#95
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No guts, no glory.

	17-11-2003 20:52									#96
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Dude, there is no such thing as "Not quite" when it comes to this. And, from what I read, she is, imo. But of course, I dont know her personaly.

Spec.

	17-11-2003 21:35									#97
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quote: Originally posted by Arrian Oh dear. You may be in for serious disappointment. In my experience, there is very little "philosophy and logic" involved in relationships. Love doesn't really work that way. I don't really know how it works, but it sure as **** ain't logical. Good luck nonetheless. -Arrian

I pride myself on my philosophy and logic. Need I say more

	17-11-2003 23:24									#98
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quote: Originally posted by Spec Dude, there is no such thing as "Not quite" when it comes to this. And, from what I read, she is, imo. But of course, I dont know her personaly. Spec.

Ever heard of bisexual people? And no, you don't know her personally. I don't want to sound egotistical or arrogant, but I know her better than anyone else in the world does. Likewise, she knows me better than anyone else in the world. She knows me better than I know myself, sometimes.

This thread wasn't asking for advice on what I should do with my bestfriend, because there's no person in the world that knows better how to interact with her than I do. This thread was just me being angry at the fact that, despite the truth of everything I have just said, we still can't be together.

	17-11-2003 23:29									#99
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My 2 cents: if you don't go for it, the only thing you can be certain about is that you will never know for sure.
And you will always wonder whether you missed out on the best thing that could ever have happened to you.

	17-11-2003 23:39									#100
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I thought that guys never had female friends - just girls they haven't managed to fvck...yet. ;P

But seriously, if you're that anxious to start a physical, romantic relationship with your BEST FRIEND, I'd reassess that friendship, because it obviously doesn't mean as much to you anymore. You've stated that all her relationships have ended, at best, poorly. Yet you think you're going to be different.

My best friend is a guy, and the only reason we're still best friends is because we've had the same conversation - great, he loves me, I'm the girl he's just realised he's always needed, blah blah blah.

Well, we had to get over it, and thankfully, we did. We need our friends more than another potential ex. Romance is very good way to louse up a great friendship. Finding people to be intimate with - they're a dime a dozen. Some of 'em even make a career of it. Finding people you can really communicate with and understand - I can count the ones I know on my hands.

	18-11-2003 00:18									#101
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I hate the idea of ending a friendship to start a romance. It's a disgusting concept. You've already got this great and wonderful foundation, why lose all of that because you're suddenly adding a new dimension to the currently existing relationship?

My bestfriend and I didn't want to change our relationship. We simply wanted to give it the opportunity to move to where it should be. Previously there had been artificial barriers that we'd established to keep things from going any further. These barriers were the fact that I was with someone else, that we weren't sure what a romance would be like, and that she was too afraid to be romantically involved.

I'm no longer with anyone else, and both of us are sure that something more between us would have been right for our relationship. We both thought that our relationship could move forward. This is why she talked about it being like a natural progression of what we already had. The barriers between us are removed entirely and we're allowed to move forward.

But there's still one barrier. She's still too afraid of romance. It was always the largest barrier and we don't know if it will ever be overcome. This is why I'm not waiting for her and why I need to "get over" her. But it's tragic, in my mind.

	18-11-2003 01:13									#102
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quote: Originally posted by Lorizael I hate the idea of ending a friendship to start a romance. It's a disgusting concept. You've already got this great and wonderful foundation, why lose all of that because you're suddenly adding a new dimension to the currently existing relationship?

Enjoy your massive stumbling block. I'm busy enjoying nearly eight years of marriage to a friend.

	18-11-2003 01:15									#103
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Dude that's my point. Other people seem to think you need to end a friendship to start a romance. I don't think you need to do that.

	18-11-2003 02:01									#104
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quote: Originally posted by Lorizael I know that's what I have to do of course, but well... Easier said than done.

Why? If she is truthful, as you suggest, in that she lies you but has issues, it's a simple choice. Get over her or give her time to get over them. If your willing to wait, then go for it, be her friend, help her through it, and you could well end up together. If you're not, then get over her.

That is presuming that she is telling the truth, which I don't know enough to tell. If you trust her, there is no reason not to wait, and try.

quote: Originally posted by Kramerman dude, i feel you almost exaclty. I have a VERY similar situation. I found in the end tho that she really ws saying no nicely.

If she is saying this, getting over her is a good idea. That's a big if though. Maybe she is being truthful in how she feels. Many people have issues, and want to do things they can't. It takes time, but most get over them, when they trust someone and become confortable with themselves. This seems more like the case to me, but then, you know whether it is better than I.

quote: Originally posted by Urban Ranger You are single. She is single. You like each other. What more do you need?

Issues. If she has issues with intimacy, and he jumps in, it stops before it could get started. As she said, kissing her would have made her freak. When she has got over her issues, then go for it. But he has to be patient and considering with her until she has.

quote: Originally posted by TCO You guys aren't helping. Lor, dump the *****. She's leading you on.

How the hell do you know that? You've met this girl? You know she's not interested? You've never met anyone who wants something but has issues that makes them scared? I'd be inclined to believe my best friend unless I had a pretty decent reason not to. Sure, maybe you can get over someone quickly, and aren't prepared to spend time to work at a relationship. Maybe he isn't. If he wants to give up on her, and won't spend his time wondering "what if it had worked", then that's great, and move on. But if he can't, I would say don't give up on it. Sure, he may waste some time, but he won't have years wondering about if it could have happened. Personally, I would hate that.

quote: Originally posted by TCO Stop sniffing what you can't eat. Go find a meal.

Sure, if all he wants is sex. If he want's a relationship with her, even, as he put it, a "perfect reltionship", then that's the last thing he wants to do. Does he sound like someone ready to give up on her yet, without all the "what ifs" that come later?

Edit: Ok, maybe he is ready to give up. Disregard this then. I wish you luck.

	18-11-2003 03:46									#105
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quote: Originally posted by Drogue Edit: Ok, maybe he is ready to give up. Disregard this then. I wish you luck.

*sigh* I was willing to give up. But all the things you said make me think differently.

	18-11-2003 03:53									#106
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quote: Originally posted by Provost Harrison I pride myself on my philosophy and logic. Need I say more

To make PH freak further:

To enter that gate and bolt it, to run after her, take her by the waist and, without a word, drag her to her large widow's bed, that was what you would call being a man! That was what my grandfather would have done, and what I hope my grandson will do! But I stood there like a post, weighing things up and reflecting ...

	18-11-2003 04:02									#107
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She might be the one with whom you will have the most profoundly moving relationship of all time. You can take a risk or you can play it safe.

Better to have loved and lost? Better to have sunk or swum? Better to regret the things you did or to regret the things you didn't?

	18-11-2003 04:42									#108
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There's now a small of my mind that has been transformed into a srhine to Guynemer .
On a more personnal note, I was in a very similar situation. Although my instinct would be to tell you like others to look elsewhere, it took me a couple of months of "sticking" around my current gf once she was aware I was attracted till she passed her "doesn't want to be in relationships" phase.
I know a few other close friends who had to wait a bit and it ended very well.
But don't get deluded : during that period, it is a good idea to look around, not focus, take it lightly and otherwise act as if you're not interested in a serious relationship even look elsewhere.

	18-11-2003 04:47									#109
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Lor, move the **** on. It is obvious that you care for her romantically and it is not reciprocated. go find someone who will reciprocate.

IOW grow a ball.

	18-11-2003 04:49									#110
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Would you rather be the guy who is St Swithin's sexless best freind, hanging around her but not getting any action. Or her boyfriend. Ditch the *****. Find someone who will love you romantically.

	18-11-2003 04:51									#111
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If you want to know if she is interested, but don't want to ask, develop the habit of taking your clothes off when ever she enters the room. "Ooops my pants fell down again!"

	18-11-2003 04:58									#112
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Better yet, just walk around naked all the time .

	18-11-2003 04:58									#113
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quote: Originally posted by TCO Would you rather be the guy who is St Swithin's sexless best freind, hanging around her but not getting any action. Or her boyfriend. Ditch the *****. Find someone who will love you romantically.

Hey! Don't go insulting Lorizaellike that! He probably has good taste in friends.

I shouldn't have used my analogy - I'm a geek and mostly insane; two qualities which make any experience I've ever had a poor metaphor for life.

Give it a go - what the he11. I live vicariously through normal people.

	18-11-2003 04:59									#114
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Ask yourself this: Is this chick really being YOUR freind by letting you hang around something you are not going to get. If she wanted the best for you, she would encourage you to move on. Face it, there is some part of her that appreciates the attention. I know. I've been in the inverse situation...

	18-11-2003 04:59									#115
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quote: Originally posted by st_swithin Hey! Don't go insulting Lorizaellike that! He probably has good taste in friends. I shouldn't have used my analogy - I'm a geek and mostly insane; two qualities which make any experience I've ever had a poor metaphor for life. Give it a go - what the he11. I live vicariously through normal people.

Babe, I am on his side. You are on the chica's side.

	18-11-2003 05:07									#116
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Why? Because I have no penis? This ain't Red Rover, dude.

	18-11-2003 05:18									#117
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quote: Why? Because I have no penis?

No, because your a disgruntled feminazi who always rants on about how much you hate men...

Lorizael should just write her name on his shoes and hopes that she notices

	18-11-2003 05:18									#118
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui Better yet, just walk around naked all the time .

With a big erection and saying: "Oh it's not you.. don't mind me..."

	18-11-2003 05:22									#119
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Why Mr. Limbaugh, I'm taken quite aback.

	18-11-2003 05:23									#120
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quote: Originally posted by st_swithin I thought that guys never had female friends - just girls they haven't managed to fvck...yet. ;P But seriously, if you're that anxious to start a physical, romantic relationship with your BEST FRIEND, I'd reassess that friendship, because it obviously doesn't mean as much to you anymore. You've stated that all her relationships have ended, at best, poorly. Yet you think you're going to be different. My best friend is a guy, and the only reason we're still best friends is because we've had the same conversation - great, he loves me, I'm the girl he's just realised he's always needed, blah blah blah. Well, we had to get over it, and thankfully, we did. We need our friends more than another potential ex. Romance is very good way to louse up a great friendship. Finding people to be intimate with - they're a dime a dozen. Some of 'em even make a career of it. Finding people you can really communicate with and understand - I can count the ones I know on my hands.

Good post.