18-11-2003 06:05									#121
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quote: Originally posted by Lorizael Dude that's my point. Other people seem to think you need to end a friendship to start a romance. I don't think you need to do that.

Failing at romance is a good way to lose a friendship though.

My advice (never requested yet offered frequently) is to run this thing out for a while as it is. This is what you want to do given that she isn't going to become your lover (and thusly take care of all of your needs simultaneously). There is obviously some quality in her that feeds you and vice versa. In these sorts of relationships this is more important than sex. Unfortunately it cannot replace sex or romance, and thus your relationship with this girl is going to be constantly vulnerable to one or the other of you falling in love or lust with another. This in turn adds impetus to one's desire to make this relationship romantic. If you are with her and the relationship is working, then you have nothing to worry about.

There is something here (with this girl) which you are desperate for. The ability to communicate so well with this girl and the intensity that you both feel tends to indicate to me that you and her share some sort of very strong similarity in your psychological makeup. The fact that you are discovering this thing in the midst of a friendship with someone who has had nothing but romantic relationship troubles in the past seems to indicate that she (at least) has regressed back to the last sort of relationship with a male that worked. She is afraid of getting romantic with you because her previous relationships seem to have been consumed by some sort of behavioral feedback loop, and the same sort of thing could happen with you. She's not ready to take another blow in the relations with males category just yet. But she's afraid of losing you through inaction as well. Whether she really feels anything for you in a romantic sense is up in the air, despite any protestations to the contrary. She loves you undoubtedly, and she needs you. It's in many ways a subtle difference.

You of course have your own part in this. This is always the case, and I'm sure there is a very good reason why you are with her right now as opposed to someone who is ready and willing to enter into a romantic relationship immediately. Maybe you know exactly what you are about in this matter. If not I'd take a very careful inventory of my feelings and behaviors around this girl. Find the emotional basis for your relationship with her and it may tell you some very useful things about yourself. Also be aware that in all likelihood you have some of the same attractions / aversions and tendencies in relationships that she does. They may come in ways identical to her own, or sometimes in opposites. The thing that they will share is that they will be the result of similar experiences as you were growing up. This seems to fuel intensity in any relationship, as it is easy to feel for someone who has been through similar things.

In the long run I wouldn't change my life in order to maintain this sort of relationship. It can be very instructive as well as rewarding, but it is likely to never turn into a real romantic relationship for very long. So enjoy it while it lasts, love her and let her love you, and when it's time for one of you to move on, then let it go. She'll probably be your friend forever, and I have found those sorts of people to be very useful assets in my life.

	18-11-2003 07:31									#122
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quote: Originally posted by st_swithin Why? Because I have no penis? This ain't Red Rover, dude.

Because your advice concentrated on impacts on her, rather than on having Lor do the right thing in terms of growing up, being confident, etc.

	18-11-2003 07:33									#123
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quote: Originally posted by Sikander Failing at romance is a good way to lose a friendship though. My advice (never requested yet offered frequently) is to run this thing out for a while as it is. This is what you want to do given that she isn't going to become your lover (and thusly take care of all of your needs simultaneously). There is obviously some quality in her that feeds you and vice versa. In these sorts of relationships this is more important than sex. Unfortunately it cannot replace sex or romance, and thus your relationship with this girl is going to be constantly vulnerable to one or the other of you falling in love or lust with another. This in turn adds impetus to one's desire to make this relationship romantic. If you are with her and the relationship is working, then you have nothing to worry about. There is something here (with this girl) which you are desperate for. The ability to communicate so well with this girl and the intensity that you both feel tends to indicate to me that you and her share some sort of very strong similarity in your psychological makeup. The fact that you are discovering this thing in the midst of a friendship with someone who has had nothing but romantic relationship troubles in the past seems to indicate that she (at least) has regressed back to the last sort of relationship with a male that worked. She is afraid of getting romantic with you because her previous relationships seem to have been consumed by some sort of behavioral feedback loop, and the same sort of thing could happen with you. She's not ready to take another blow in the relations with males category just yet. But she's afraid of losing you through inaction as well. Whether she really feels anything for you in a romantic sense is up in the air, despite any protestations to the contrary. She loves you undoubtedly, and she needs you. It's in many ways a subtle difference. You of course have your own part in this. This is always the case, and I'm sure there is a very good reason why you are with her right now as opposed to someone who is ready and willing to enter into a romantic relationship immediately. Maybe you know exactly what you are about in this matter. If not I'd take a very careful inventory of my feelings and behaviors around this girl. Find the emotional basis for your relationship with her and it may tell you some very useful things about yourself. Also be aware that in all likelihood you have some of the same attractions / aversions and tendencies in relationships that she does. They may come in ways identical to her own, or sometimes in opposites. The thing that they will share is that they will be the result of similar experiences as you were growing up. This seems to fuel intensity in any relationship, as it is easy to feel for someone who has been through similar things. In the long run I wouldn't change my life in order to maintain this sort of relationship. It can be very instructive as well as rewarding, but it is likely to never turn into a real romantic relationship for very long. So enjoy it while it lasts, love her and let her love you, and when it's time for one of you to move on, then let it go. She'll probably be your friend forever, and I have found those sorts of people to be very useful assets in my life.

Didn't read the whole post, but I'll say the other possibility is that Lor needs to grow up a little, stop wasting time with her, go look at the other women on the planet, develop some confidence, etc.

And the smart money is going on the table with me...

	18-11-2003 08:08									#124
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GP, you disgust me. You are far, far too obsessed with women.

Sorry mods.



Sikander: Offer your advice more often. Thanks.

	18-11-2003 08:23									#125
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quote: Stop sniffing what you can't eat. Go find a meal.

quote: My best friend is a guy, and the only reason we're still best friends is because we've had the same conversation - great, he loves me, I'm the girl he's just realised he's always needed, blah blah blah. Well, we had to get over it, and thankfully, we did.

I'd be willing to bet just about anything that he hasn't. That's not the way male minds work.

quote: I hate the idea of ending a friendship to start a romance. It's a disgusting concept.

Also one that almost never works. Trying to date friends is almost always a very bad idea.

	18-11-2003 08:29									#126
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that's because they know you too well

Jon miller

	18-11-2003 08:34									#127
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Sikander has a point, as always. I consider him the voice of dissent. Always different and dealing with it in different ways but always grasping what the concept is about. Strange character. Interesting.

But the thing your relationship is platonic and you need more than that. Keep that platonic relationship but your body and soul has other needs as well. Satisfy them too. With her or if you choose not to, with another girl.

IMHO even if you choose not to try to have a fullfledged relationship with this girl if at the same time you don't go exploring and remain exclusively attached to her then your body and soul will react against your decision and compromise it every day.
At the end of the day this turns up to be totally masochistic and while great novels have been written about this situation, I doubt that's something you or anyone deserves.

	18-11-2003 11:25									#128
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quote: Originally posted by Lorizael Dude that's my point. Other people seem to think you need to end a friendship to start a romance. I don't think you need to do that.

Who?

If you had gone ahead and kissed her, she might have freaked out, but she will forgive you.

	18-11-2003 11:27									#129
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For a different perspective:

My aunt and uncle were really good friends for years. All that time my aunt sorta assumed they were dating even though my uncle had no clue. He finally asked her out on a date, which to her was no different than usual, and they ended up (obviously) getting married.

	18-11-2003 11:37									#130
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Now that's interesting.

	18-11-2003 11:45									#131
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quote: Failing at romance is a good way to lose a friendship though.

True, but a friendship can be salvaged even after a failure of romance. You just have to be careful and work hard at solidifying a friendship after an amicable breakup (of, couse it must be amicable). It is VERY difficult though. The problem is in trying to keep the friendship even when the relationship starts to sour and for both parties to realize romance won't work before the relationshp totally and utterly disolves in a Jerry Springer show.

	18-11-2003 11:49									#132
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GP, you inspire me.

	18-11-2003 11:49									#133
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UR: Yeah, I thought so too when I first heard the story.

	18-11-2003 14:17									#134
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quote: Originally posted by David Floyd For a different perspective: My aunt and uncle were really good friends for years. All that time my aunt sorta assumed they were dating even though my uncle had no clue. He finally asked her out on a date, which to her was no different than usual, and they ended up (obviously) getting married.

Didn't he ever realise sticking his willy in her was not the textbook definition of 'platonic'?

	20-11-2003 12:11									#135
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Lor, if she is more worried about what happened in previous relationships just drop it. I take it from what you've said that the most recent disaster wasn't last month, but some time ago. If she can't get past it for the guy she thinks is why-the-heck-aren't-we-together perfect, she probably won't. Ever.

You are the intellectual whore. Start looking somewhere else. If, after a couple months, you really can't find anyone else who captivates your attention, try again with her. You'll have nothing to lose.

	20-11-2003 18:04									#136
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quote: Originally posted by Lorizael I'm actually not looking for a relationship. It just so happens that I think my bestfriend and I could have what I view to be the "perfect relationship" (something based on my philosophy and logic, and would take too long for me to describe here). I'm really perfectly content without having anyone romantic in my life. I just really want to be with her.

been there done that. Usually after romantic relationship didnt work out, I find myself saying the same thing.

	20-11-2003 23:46									#137
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui quote: Failing at romance is a good way to lose a friendship though. True, but a friendship can be salvaged even after a failure of romance. You just have to be careful and work hard at solidifying a friendship after an amicable breakup (of, couse it must be amicable). It is VERY difficult though. The problem is in trying to keep the friendship even when the relationship starts to sour and for both parties to realize romance won't work before the relationshp totally and utterly disolves in a Jerry Springer show.

Thats what happened to me. Tho she, the one who ended it, was much more keen on salvaging the friendship, perhaps because I am the most interesting and entertaining person she knows (which isnt saying much... she has a boring life with boring people, and that is her opinion, not just mine). I, like a typical male, mutually wanted to remain good friends with the hope of eventually rekindling the romance. On several occasions I have told myself no, its not going to happen, nor do i want it to, yet that still, one year later, lingers in the back of my mind. Im not waiting around tho. I have not been either... im getting out there and Lor i recommend you do to. I found many girls to occupy me and who have even made me forget all about wanting a romance with the one who didnt want it, if even only temporary. And as we've moved farther apart, i desire romance less and less... she has changed a lot, and not in ways i admire. She has gotten into drugs, she has always drank just to get drunk but now does that with much more frequency, she hangs around delinquents, and she is increasingly lazy and inactive (ie getting a little healthy around the thighs).
shes swiftly moving toward "not my type"