17-11-2003 18:35									#1
	DESIGN: New CTP2 Game Manual Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

Ok i've been looking over the current one and obviously its fairly redundant because of the changes that have been made to the game so far.

This project is one of the later parts i guess that will be done, but i got a few ideas for a bit of feed back and discussion.

I guess the first thing i should add is dont worry - any work i will do toward the final draft will be spell checked


One of the main problems that CTP2(and 1?) had was complaints from people who had played Civ(1/2) and the common cry was 'but why does it do this? in Civ i could do that!' etc.. many people were shocked to find that this wasn't actually just a prettier version of Civ2.

So what i'm thinking is maybe we could have a step-by-step tutorial section that aims to lead a complete novice by the hand through the game's various sections. As there is no real in game tutorial(not detailed anyway) we could atleast help with any Civ(1/2/3) players confusion.

I've been revisiting 'Star Wars Supremacy'(UK titlte) recently, its that old strategy starwars game that got a bad press due to its fairly inept AI(sound familular).
Well it had one good point - a decent in manual tutorial that made this otherwise very confusing game, a bit easier to understand.

So this is my first main thought to adding something new, that hopefully will help new players get to grips quicker with the game - and maybe explain somewhere that although CTP2 looks like Civ - its actually quite a different beast?

Last edited by child of Thor on 17-11-2003 at 18:46

	17-11-2003 19:36									#2
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Last edited????????? Already starting with the spell checker?

But, for certain things you are completly right. It took me quit some time to get used to NOT assign workers

But, a tutorial: We would need to have also a 'scenario' or similar to run with it.........not sure if this is possible..........

	17-11-2003 20:03									#3
	Re: DESIGN: New CTP2 Game Manual Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

quote: Originally posted by child of Thor So what i'm thinking is maybe we could have a step-by-step tutorial section that aims to lead a complete novice by the hand through the game's various sections. As there is no real in game tutorial(not detailed anyway) we could atleast help with any Civ(1/2/3) players confusion.

Good idea,

IIRC CTP1 had a pretty good tutorial, but there were some parts missing that left the player searching for answers, Such as PW, terraforming, etc.



Disclaimer: This has been forever ago and I'm just going by memory, so I make no guaruntees about how accurate my info is

	17-11-2003 21:49									#4
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quote: Originally posted by Gilgamensch edity edit ............ But, a tutorial: We would need to have also a 'scenario' or similar to run with it.........not sure if this is possible..........

Well the Starwars game i mentioned did it with out any specific in game scenario, you just played a normal game and it went through various things(build lists/unit movements/combat etc) - i think we could do it in CTP2 as well, just to teach how best to use the UI etc?

Then once the details of the final release are known you would go into specific details and values for all the games content.

	17-11-2003 22:14									#5
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Actually, we may even want two tutorials. One for the novices, and another for Civ 2/3 people. Let's face it, those who played Civ 3, don't need to be introduced to the concept of cities, city improvements, research, etc. That tutorial should concentrate on the differences between classic Civ and CTP, such as PW, unconventional warfare, combat system, etc.

	17-11-2003 22:23									#6
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Yep i like that idea - we can have a chapter specificaly for Civ players - 'So you've played a lot of Civ?'

It would concentrate more on the differences between the two titles and explain why/how CTP2 does such and such.......alot of the fundamentals are more or less the same, just executed in a different way in CTP2.

Thanks guys

	17-11-2003 23:07									#7
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Since most of the SLICers are also C++ing, I'm happy to try SLICing any additions to the tutorial that need doing and can get done before Christmas.

	17-11-2003 23:34									#8
	Increase the size of your Attachments

........before xmas?

im not going to get into the meat of the game documentation untill i see how the new game works.......so i gota wait for everyone to finish their compiling and for the release(atleast imminent) of the main code once we've all agreed apon what it will include(as in bug fixes and additions). Then we will need much playtesting to see how its going and from that i hope to get the main additions for the new game manual..............so unless we are ready to play test the debugged code this week - you got plenty of time IW
(and i hope i have too )

EDIT: Thanks for giving me a dead line pressure feeling But if you want to SLIC then please go ahead dont mind me

Xmas is only 38days away

Last edited by child of Thor on 17-11-2003 at 23:41

	18-11-2003 00:08									#9
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... or after May if that'd be easier

Ah ok. I was thinking you could start on a replacement manual any time, since the existing one is fairly useless. I imagine the first few releases won't have any significant changes, and I don't think any 'standard' releases should have changes that require major manual rewrites.

	18-11-2003 01:00									#10
	Got spare money?

yes your right about starting now(which i am in a very loose sense), but i was looking down the final furlong for the main bit of work - and you just cut 6months(?) into 38days, it was alarming

	18-11-2003 03:03									#11
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There is also a CTP2 tutorial, it is fully sliced, unfortunatly it is not quite finished. So I prefer a slic tutorial version that can describe all the little features or all the different features of CTP2 in comparision to Civ2/3. One thing I miss is a button on the new game screen that allows me to enable the tutorial and also to select the tutorial level: Beginner and Civ2/3 player.

-Martin

	18-11-2003 19:13									#12
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It probably doesn't need a fully fledged tutorial, but some notes for players of CTP1 would be good too.

	18-11-2003 20:08									#13
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Well any in game tutorials i'll place outside my responsibility for now. I'm thinking of what format an online manual should be in? Just as a word document(small size quick to download) or maybe go for a nicer looking PDF type thing(once i've learnt how to do that ), but much bigger download?

	18-11-2003 20:21									#14
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

Go with PDF, they are easy to make, simply consists of choosing "Save File as"

	18-11-2003 20:25									#15
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

At the risk of sounding like a geek, I'll suggest you consider (La)TeX - then you can easily make versions in pdf, ps, HTML or even plain text.

	18-11-2003 20:35									#16
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Also PDF isn't distributing viruses

	18-11-2003 20:46									#17
	Remove this text

IIRC there are viruses that spread over pdf, but they can only infect yu if you use the editor in some fashion. I don't know the details, though. Regardless, I agree that PDF is much better than word in this regard.

	18-11-2003 21:08									#18
	Tired of ads?

Or as you mentioned plain text, but definitly no word it is from SM......aehm I mean MS..........

	20-11-2003 01:22									#19
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ok PDF it is, although it would only take me a few seconds to copy/paste a plain text version as well, if people on low bandwidth connections need an easier download

	20-11-2003 01:47									#20
	Tired of ads?

HTML

I dispise PDF manuals, theyre sloooow

	20-11-2003 01:52									#21
	Remove this text

My thoughts too
So there will be an easy(wordpad type) plain text version to download too.

	20-11-2003 02:09									#22
	Got spare money?

Some people (so I have heard) actually like to print these things out... PDF would certainly be good for them. As I said, TeX gives you PDF and HTML, so that would please Maquiladora.

	20-11-2003 02:17									#23
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I also hate PDF. It loads up slower than HTML or anything else, and the Acrobat Reader is often a pain to use.

Give me HTML... TeX... RTF... something else .

	20-11-2003 03:53									#24
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J Bytheway, is the Tex thing a free download from somewhere? - so i can have a play with it. oh feel free to point me in its direction please

	20-11-2003 09:19									#25
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I'd be willing to help out on the manual. Count me in for the chapter "How To Get Killed In Multiplayer."

Seriouly, whoever is in charge of the manual contact me.

	20-11-2003 15:43									#26
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Child of Thor,

I used to use LaTeX (the successor to TeX). It's the only way to typeset mathematical formulae. IMO, it's not all that user friendly but may be fine for straightforward text. Here's some links:

http://www.latex-project.org/

http://www.maths.tcd.ie/~dwilkins/LaTeXPrimer/

	20-11-2003 18:50									#27
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One thing we have to keep in mind, that everyone shall be able to read it. And sorry to say, 'everyone' has the possibility to read pdf or simple rtf/txt-files. The only problem with rtf is, that we might have problems including pictures/diagrams. PDF you can.......

	20-11-2003 19:07									#28
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

Everything you ever need for or about (La)TeX is at http://www.ctan.org/

Of course, that doesn't mean it's easy to find what you want...

	20-11-2003 19:29									#29
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Jesus..........just had a look..........

you have some short introduction .........

One reason why I prefer PDF

Plus I have adobe exchange at work

	20-11-2003 19:45									#30
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Well, you want the files to be readable on all platforms: Linux, Windows, Mac, etc. That rules out pretty much everthing but PDF, HTML and TXT. You'll also want to be able to add screenshots, diagrams, etc. That rules out TXT (plus, those stupid end-of-line characters are different on every OS, which some crappy editors (e.g. Notepad) have a problem with). Some people will prefer HTML, some PDF. PDF is generally speaking the superior format (especially for printing), but HTML certainly has it's advantages as well (faster, allows linking, can be viewed online). LaTeX would be the perfect solution, though as Peter points out, it's not very user-friendly.