21-11-2003 20:59									#91
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I want to start a democracy movement. I think we should organize in all the states with cictzen referendums to get proportional reprentation and instant runoff for our elections. That would break the power of the Democratic-Republican Party.

	21-11-2003 21:03									#92
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quote: Originally posted by Arrian But the whole "vote third party to weaken the big 'uns" thing doesn't seem to be working.

What about the whole vote for the party you like best thing?

	21-11-2003 21:05									#93
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quote: Originally posted by DinoDoc What about the whole vote for the party you like best thing?

It doesn't work if no one else does it.

	21-11-2003 21:08									#94
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And? I think you're just creating a self-fulfilling prophecy for yourself.

	21-11-2003 21:10									#95
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Porbably. The system is designed to kill 3rd parties.

	21-11-2003 21:30									#96
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quote: Originally posted by DinoDoc What about the whole vote for the party you like best thing?

I don't really like any of them. I like elements of each.

I like the idea of fiscal conservatism, but the major party that preaches it never pratices it. The other one doesn't even bother preaching it, except if they think they can score some points. That leaves who? The libertarians? I voted Lib once, but although there is a part of me that finds the philosophy behind it appealing, the rest of me is realistic to know it's about as workable as a commie utopia.

I tend to be socially liberal, but the party that leans that way is a bunch of spineless fools scared shitless of the religious right. Then again, the other party has sold its soul to the religious right (silly, I know, parties don't have souls. forgive me for a bout of hyperbole).

I want to protect the environment, within reason (as I define it, of course), and neither major party is real good about that, though the Dems might be slightly better. I happen to believe that properly protecting the environment doesn't just mean passing harsher regulations. In fact, I think federal environmental law is seriously ****ed up. The Greens *might* be the best party for me on this 1 issue.

So it's very much "voting for the party I dislike least." The thought process tends to go like this:

Republicans? Well yeah, if they'd dump the RR and weren't lying through their teeth about cutting government.

Dems? Maybe if they would finally decide to dump the socialist wing of the party, and grow some balls for the issues I actually agree with them on.

Greens? I'm with them, sorta, on the environment, but not a heckuva lot else.

Libs? I'm with them on "less government" but the'yre extremists.

-Arrian

	22-11-2003 03:36									#97
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Arrian, You are a Schwarzenegger Republican! Welcome to the party!

	23-11-2003 07:11									#98
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Arrian, that is really sad. Libertarians are third party and how many seats in the Congress do they have?

In my small country there are elections today and about ten different parties will get into the parliament, ranging from extreme right to moderate right. Hey, I didn't say it was perfect

	23-11-2003 07:18									#99
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I don't vote for my favorite party... I vote for whoever needs the most votes out of the two evils as a way of balancing the power. I figure the closer they are to 50/50, the less thats likely to get done. And in government, that's the way it ought to work.

	23-11-2003 07:18									#100
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no lefties?

	23-11-2003 07:24									#101
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VetLegion, the two-party system has done this country well in that it forces candidates toward the center of the two parties in order to get elected. Third-parties, though, do influence elections to the extent that they draw off votes that may otherwise go to one or the other of the two major party candidates. For example, in the last election the Green party polled around 5% of the vote. Most have vote would have gone to the Democratic candidate but for the Green party candidate being present. Therefor, one could say that Al Gore would have won the election but for the Green party and Ralph Nader.

	23-11-2003 18:01									#102
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communism is homo-gay

	23-11-2003 21:23									#103
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Ned, I agree this system served the US well in the past. GDP/capita says it all. But I still think it is inherently unfair, not that I care much, if you Americans don't


And what I gather from this thread the reply to my question is: communism was never illegal, and theoritically, you could not have been fired or denied employement just because you were a communist.

But in some cases, it happened.

The reason communists that were fired from civil service never went to court with it is because communists do not like solving their problems via courts.

	23-11-2003 23:45									#104
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VetLegion, well Hollywood was certainly up in arms over the communism issue where a lot of careers were ruined in the '50s. However, it is not clear why they were/are upset. At times they seem to be upset that communists were fired. At other times they were upset because of the unfair tactics used by McCarthy basically labelling people communist for standing on their constitutional right not to testify.

Today, the crazies in Hollywood still come out with far-left babble. They are not fired. But still their careers are ruined because they are so out-of-step with America.

	24-11-2003 00:13									#105
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I saw this movie which made me rethink the message of Christianity. The Gathering with christina Ricci. The movie revolved around the people who came to witness the sacrifice of Jesus Christ 'from the East and the West they came, not to help, not in reverence. But because of lust.' These people were then punished by God to wander the earth for time eternal and passively witness all the tragedies of human history. These were the people who knitted when the guilitine was active, and the same who now camp outside the prisons when executions are taking place.

It made me think that today people are often mere spectators to human tragedy. We passively watch the wars and bombings on TV. But what are our reasons for doing so?
Is it to satisfy our curiousity, our lust to witness the sufferings of others? We are free to do so.

Now what strikes me is that communism is more in line with the moral message of christianity. When confronted with injustice it is not enough to simply watch - one has to choose and take action to prevent the injustice from being carried through. Therefore I think that christianity is fundamentally undemocratic. Democracy is a spectators sport. Communism is choosing a side and fighting for what one believes in.

	24-11-2003 08:19									#106
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Tripledoc, if you view Christianity and Communism as equal enemies of injustice, why do you believe that Communism is atheist and heavily attacks Christianity? The seem to be natural allies, not enemies.

	24-11-2003 08:26									#107
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Because Christianity has a habit of sticking its rear up to the government and justifying whatever order is in power. Christianity made itself our enemy, not the other way around. It deccided we were agents of the devil, and that the proper place for people was to serve their lords and masters.

But we and the liberation theologans are on the same side, because we both fight for the people.

	24-11-2003 10:34									#108
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quote: Because Christianity has a habit of sticking its rear up to the government and justifying whatever order is in power

Obviously you've never heard of the Catholic Church . For much of its history, it was the other way around, the government bowing to the Church.

	24-11-2003 10:50									#109
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui Obviously you've never heard of the Catholic Church .

He obviously hasn't heard of many things of he's supporting the false doctrine espoused by Christian Liberation Theology.

	24-11-2003 18:52									#110
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quote: Originally posted by VetLegion The reason communists that were fired from civil service never went to court with it is because communists do not like solving their problems via courts.

They don't?

For those of you who don't want to click on the link, it's to a Supreme Court case where a Communist sued the government, claiming private property rights to public funds.

	24-11-2003 19:01									#111
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Tragically, it is the Catholic Church itself that is espousing and developing Marxist thought to a synthesis with Christianity - they have a tendency to do this, you know, from Augustine to Aquinas and now to Liberation Theology.

	24-11-2003 19:42									#112
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quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara I want to start a democracy movement. I think we should organize in all the states with cictzen referendums to get proportional reprentation and instant runoff for our elections. That would break the power of the Democratic-Republican Party.

Good luck -- currently, we are in the midst of the longest political stasis in our country's history.

The last political realignment said to have occurred was in the 1930s.

	24-11-2003 21:07									#113
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quote: Originally posted by JohnT For those of you who don't want to click on the link, it's to a Supreme Court case where a Communist sued the government, claiming private property rights to public funds.

In general, no.