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VetLegion
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I am not from USA so forgive my ignorance on the matter.
I know that theoretically, Constitution of the USA guarantees everyone freedom of belief.
What is confusing me is that I learned that during the cold war, not sure of the year, senator McCarthy of the US Senate conducted investigations with the intention of exposing communists.
I have a few questions coming from that.
1. Was communism illegal during the cold war?
2. If it was, how was the law that outlawed it compliant with the Constitution?
3. What were the consequences for people found to be communists by McCarthy?
4. Is communism legal in the USA nowadays? Can you run for office as a communist?
Thanks in advance for your replies.
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VetLegion
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Libertarians want to abolish the state altogether and they are legal. So that doesn't sound convincing.
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JohnT
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Capitalist
Mar 1999
time: 00:32
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1. Was communism illegal during the cold war?
Believing in it was not illegal per se, but belonging to groups that were identified as Communist could get you in trouble as the law.
2. If it was, how was the law that outlawed it compliant with the Constitution?
"National Security" is quite a big blanket that covers a lot of abuses - people from Lincoln to Dubya have used it to violate the spirit and the word of the Constitution.
3. What were the consequences for people found to be communists by McCarthy?
Some jail time, loss of income in ones major profession were the worst results ("blacklisting" is where an entire profession openly refuses to work with a person or list of people), however the ostracization and other societal penalties in many times were more overbearing and painful than any civil judgements.
4. Is communism legal in the USA nowadays? Can you run for office as a communist?
Yes, and yes. People have been running as socialists, communists, and whatever bizarre idea you can think of for quite awhile. However, the US is a Republic which means that you have to convince each individual state to put you on their ballot - there is no National Election Board that standardizes the process. This is the problem with getting true third party representation - you have to draw up 50 petitions, all of them with their own set of rules, in order to have your party qualify to get on the ballot.
The McCarthy episodes were a shameful period in America history, no doubt about it. Regardless of how things turned out in the Soviet Union, Eastern Europe, etc., "Communism" should've been been treated as any other idea or ideology - one that stands or falls on it's own merits, both real world and theoretical.
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DanS
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Kickball Capital of the World
Jan 1970
time: 00:32
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It's legal to be both a communist personally and to be part of a group of communists. Always has been.
The Communist Control Act in 1954 required communist party members to register, and placed certain restrictions on them, but those provisions were mostly overturned by the Supreme Court in the 1960s, AFAIK.
Of course, the law won't really protect you from what your neighbors think about your communism and won't protect you from fearmongering politicians who have the power to haul you before a Senate committee to testify (although it will protect you from having to answer the questions).
Last edited by DanS on 18-11-2003 at 04:08
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Ned
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of Aptos, CA
Oct 1999
time: 21:32
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I would argue that no, it is not possible to have a Communist state in the United States. Even if a state could successfully nationalize all industry within its borders, it could not legally prevent companies located outside the state from conducting business in the state. Nor could it prevent its citizens from moving across its borders to adjacent states to conduct business, such as banking, etc. And, most importantly, it cannot prevent its citizens from moving out on the state. If one thinks about it, this alone will cause a collapse of any Communist state.
There's another issue, and that is that the Constitution guarantees a Republican form of government to each state. In my understanding that communism is a single party form of the government that clearly would be illegal under this clause of the Constitution.
Finally, the Constitution protects "liberty" which includes the right to contract. To the extent that a Communist state would prevent one of its citizens from contracting with people within or without its borders to form new businesses that may even compete with nationalized businesses, this would seemingly be a violation of this constitutional right.
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The Templar
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People's Republic of the East Village
Oct 2001
time: 00:32
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quote:
Originally posted by Ned
I would argue that no, it is not possible to have a Communist state in the United States. |
All right, let's give it a look.
quote:
Even if a state could successfully nationalize all industry within its borders, it could not legally prevent companies located outside the state from conducting business in the state. |
Not a bad argument at all - there would certainly be dormant commerce clause problems. The state would have to arrange its intrastate regulations such that they did not discriminate against out-of-state business. And even then the courts might not allow it.
quote:
Nor could it prevent its citizens from moving across its borders to adjacent states to conduct business, such as banking, etc. And, most importantly, it cannot prevent its citizens from moving out on the state. If one thinks about it, this alone will cause a collapse of any Communist state. |
Cute, but I would remind you that thousands of Americans defected to the Soviet Union during the depression.
quote:
There's another issue, and that is that the Constitution guarantees a Republican form of government to each state. In my understanding that communism is a single party form of the government that clearly would be illegal under this clause of the Constitution. |
That means you would need a communist system with multiple parties.
quote:
Finally, the Constitution protects "liberty" which includes the right to contract. To the extent that a Communist state would prevent one of its citizens from contracting with people within or without its borders to form new businesses that may even compete with nationalized businesses, this would seemingly be a violation of this constitutional right. |
 So-called freedom to contract has always been tightly constrained (yes, even during the Lockner era). Lockner was the height of freedom to contract unless you were a union - apparently freedom to contract did not extend to freedom of workers to contract together for their mutual benefit. But I digress, even the Lockner decision provided that the states have a power to limit contracts for the public good. So you can't contract for prostitution for instance.
Also note that the Constitution says nothing about freedom of contract. The constitution only says that states may not impair the obligation of contracts. Thus the state breaches all contracts, pays compensation out of its bonds, and then defaults as above.
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18-11-2003 00:10
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