21-11-2003 19:13									#1
	Would a WMD attack destroy the US Constitution? Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

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Gen. Franks Doubts Constitution Will Survive WMD Attack

John O. Edwards, NewsMax.com
Friday, Nov. 21, 2003

Gen. Tommy Franks says that if the United States is hit with a weapon of mass destruction that inflicts large casualties, the Constitution will likely be discarded in favor of a military form of government.
Franks, who successfully led the U.S. military operation to liberate Iraq, expressed his worries in an extensive interview he gave to the men’s lifestyle magazine Cigar Aficionado.

In the magazine’s December edition, the former commander of the military’s Central Command warned that if terrorists succeeded in using a weapon of mass destruction (WMD) against the U.S. or one of our allies, it would likely have catastrophic consequences for our cherished republican form of government.

Discussing the hypothetical dangers posed to the U.S. in the wake of Sept. 11, Franks said that “the worst thing that could happen” is if terrorists acquire and then use a biological, chemical or nuclear weapon that inflicts heavy casualties.

If that happens, Franks said, “... the Western world, the free world, loses what it cherishes most, and that is freedom and liberty we’ve seen for a couple of hundred years in this grand experiment that we call democracy.”

Franks then offered “in a practical sense” what he thinks would happen in the aftermath of such an attack.

“It means the potential of a weapon of mass destruction and a terrorist, massive, casualty-producing event somewhere in the Western world – it may be in the United States of America – that causes our population to question our own Constitution and to begin to militarize our country in order to avoid a repeat of another mass, casualty-producing event. Which in fact, then begins to unravel the fabric of our Constitution. Two steps, very, very important.”

Franks didn’t speculate about how soon such an event might take place.

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http://www.newsmax.com/archives/art...20/185048.shtml

Wouldn't the opposite be true as well? Isn't it likely that in the wake of a catastrophic WMD attack, that the nation would cherish the consitution and want to strengthen its democratic beliefs even more?

	21-11-2003 19:18									#2
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To a degree, wars always do, temporarily.

	21-11-2003 19:20									#3
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If it it exploded near it, certainly.

	21-11-2003 19:25									#4
	Re: Would a WMD attack destroy the US Constitution? Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

quote: Wouldn't the opposite be true as well? Isn't it likely that in the wake of a catastrophic WMD attack, that the nation would cherish the consitution and want to strengthen its democratic beliefs even more?

Change WMD for Terrorist (as in 9/11) and then think about the Patriot act that resulted from it.
I believe Franks is right. You would go into "kick ass" mode at the expense of your Constitution. We all would.

	21-11-2003 19:27									#5
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Constitution?

	21-11-2003 19:58									#6
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That was my first reaction when I heard about the plane crash in Queens in November 2001--this was the second wave of attacks everyone was predicting and normal life in the USA was over. Maybe not a military dictatorship, but at least a World War II-style semi-democracy.

	21-11-2003 20:07									#7
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of course a brutal attack like this would temporarily shut down the republic just as wars always do (martial law)

	21-11-2003 20:20									#8
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He has to be kidding, the worst it would do is blow the ashes around

	21-11-2003 20:23									#9
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yeah, that makes sense. the national archives is a sturdily built building, but a nuclear blast nearby would still vaporize it.

as for things going the other way? as much as it pains me to say this, i can't see it happening. too many americans seem to want to trade freedoms for security, and would thus welcom martial law.

	21-11-2003 20:24									#10
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Think about who the sitting President is. Do you think that, given that excuse, he wouldn't jump at the chance to suspend the Constitution and become President for Life. We are talking about someone who knows damn well he wasn't elected in the first place and owes his office to the violation of the Constitution.

The question, however, is given how pissed the military and CIA are at him, how long he'd make it before they removed him from power?

	21-11-2003 20:27									#11
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what would be interesting is if someone brought a nuclear weapon right up to Capitol hill and let it off while congress was in session. that would really f up the US democratic system

	21-11-2003 20:27									#12
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quote: yeah, that makes sense. the national archives is a sturdily built building, but a nuclear blast nearby would still vaporize it.

I don't know about that. Nuclear blasts aren't as strong as people think they are, especially for the weak type of nukes a terrrorist group is likely to get its hands on.

Besides, the Constitution has its own special-made bunker that should shield it from any WMD attack. The only real issue is how quickly the Constitution can go from its on display location to its bunker.

	21-11-2003 20:29									#13
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quote: We are talking about someone who knows damn well he wasn't elected in the first place and owes his office to the violation of the Constitution.

Actually, I'm pretty sure he doesn't know that. Only whinging leftists and complete nutjobs are still harping on it.

	21-11-2003 20:30									#14
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quote: Do you think that, given that excuse, he wouldn't jump at the chance to suspend the Constitution and become President for Life.

Yes. He wouldn't.

Do you have something other than a troll to contribute?

	21-11-2003 20:30									#15
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quote: yeah, that makes sense. the national archives is a sturdily built building, but a nuclear blast nearby would still vaporize it.

That ain't what I meant, somebody else already torched the Constitution and all that's left are the ashes.

	21-11-2003 20:33									#16
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At last this thread has got going in the way nature surley intended it to

	21-11-2003 20:37									#17
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quote: I don't know about that. Nuclear blasts aren't as strong as people think they are, especially for the weak type of nukes a terrrorist group is likely to get its hands on.

eh, you place one near the national archives, and the heat could/would vaporize it.

and should we hold thestinger responsible for the last torching? bollocks, he's a bloody terrorist.

	21-11-2003 20:44									#18
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quote: eh, you place one near the national archives, and the heat could/would vaporize it.

Why do you say that? The Industrial Promotion Hall in Hiroshima wasn't as sturdily built as the National Archives and it still survived the blast and became the Atomic Bomb Dome. Even nuclear bombs aren't hot enough to vaporize a huge building made out of marble or whatever other insanely tough stone the National Archives is made from.

	21-11-2003 20:46									#19
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some sort of evil biological agent that eats paper could do the trick

	21-11-2003 20:48									#20
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yeah! kinda like the ones in the andromeda strain!

what if the terrorists got a 50megaton ex-sov bomb? that would do the trick, then.

	21-11-2003 21:18									#21
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Why is John Edwards writting for Newsmax, esp. about one of his opponents?

	21-11-2003 21:22									#22
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quote: Originally posted by DinoDoc Why is John Edwards writting for Newsmax, esp. about one of his opponents?

probably a different john edwards, I'd imagine.

	21-11-2003 21:23									#23
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui quote: Do you think that, given that excuse, he wouldn't jump at the chance to suspend the Constitution and become President for Life. Do you (che) have something other than a troll to contribute?

Really dumb question, Imran.

	21-11-2003 21:28									#24
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Che would fall all to pieces if stockings and chocolate and gas and so many other things were rationed, like WW II.
News Flash! It wasn't Bush's fault.

	21-11-2003 21:30									#25
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Dude, the minute the big C is suspended I'm swimming to the Bahamas.

	21-11-2003 21:32									#26
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From about a year and a half ago:

Arabs in U.S. could be held, official warns

quote: A member of the U.S. Civil Rights Commission said in Detroit on Friday he could foresee a scenario in which the public would demand internment camps for ArabAmericans if Arab terrorists strike again in this country. If there's a future terrorist attack in America "and they come from the same ethnic group that attacked the World Trade Center, you can forget about civil rights," commission member Peter Kirsanow said. The reason, he said, is that "the public would be less concerned about any perceived erosion of civil liberties than they are about protecting their own lives." [my emphasis]

From a Bush appointee whose job is protecting civil rights. Use your imagination about what the more extreme factions in the administration are thinking.

	21-11-2003 21:37									#27
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Such an attack, assuming it does not bite great chunks out the the government, is most likely to affect our standards for indetifying and waging war on enemies rather than our domestic forms of goverment. Any goverments supporting or sheilding or failing to destroy them within their territory the attacker will be overturned or destroyed. All facilities of the attackers will be smeared with little regard for collaterall casualties. If they are hard targets, there is a good possibility that tactical nukes will be used.

	21-11-2003 21:38									#28
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uh Clem... what is so shocking about that statement? It is probably true. If you had another Arab striking against the country, people would be calling for blood. Where does it say in those comments he believes they should be interned?

	21-11-2003 21:46									#29
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The Constitution chains up the worst part of the American character. Throwing out the Constitution would unleash the ugliest part of our character. It would give hate and violence a free reign.

	21-11-2003 21:52									#30
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quote: Such an attack, assuming it does not bite great chunks out the the government, is most likely to affect our standards for indetifying and waging war on enemies rather than our domestic forms of goverment. Any goverments supporting or sheilding or failing to destroy them within their territory the attacker will be overturned or destroyed.

Yep. Like Saudi Arabia and Pakistan.