21-11-2003 21:32									#31
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you mean taikonaut.

	21-11-2003 21:34									#32
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Nah, he's not called a taikonaut

	21-11-2003 21:34									#33
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quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara Like the NYC police and firefighters during 9/11, or Coast Guard divers who jump into stormy seas to rescue folks.

Yeah, we lost hundreds of heroes on 9/11/01.

	21-11-2003 21:36									#34
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Of course then there is Atatürk who fought the Greeks, British, Italians, French And Russians during and after the First World War. He is very revered in modern Turkey.

There is an impressive Mausoleum made to honour him located on a hill in the centre of the capital Ankara - the Anitkabir. It is considered one of the finest examples of the robust classical architecture of the 30s. Designed by a German architect I think.

	21-11-2003 22:03									#35
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What is a definition of a heroic act? an ethically positive act that was made while puting oneself at risk.

There are heroes everywhere. They just don't get enough credit anymore.

	21-11-2003 22:23									#36
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And maybe, that's the root of the problem, Azazel.

How newsworthy is it to talk about the people who are doing good, who live upright, though unspectacular lives? If you take off your blinders, you'll find many of these people, though we don't talk about them in the media. News is scandal, tearing down people believed to be respectable, not someone staying the course.

In my opinion a hero is someone who does good, not for his own personal gain, but to benefit others. By that definition, you get a great number of not so newsworthy heroes.

	21-11-2003 23:46									#37
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You want heroes... lemme post some pictures. In fact I'm gonna make a totally new thread because the pics are incredible.

http://www.apolyton.net/forums/show...threadid=102231

Those guys are heroes. Period.

Last edited by BustaMike on 21-11-2003 at 23:52

	21-11-2003 23:52									#38
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There are plenty of heroes in the news all the time. You just don't pay attention. Most of the time I don' know their names, but I can tell you what they did.

The two guys who wrestled a bull shark to get that little boy's arm back a couple years ago.

The guy who jumped into the freezing, ice filled Potomic to save passangers in a crashed airplane, while cops and firefighters stood and watched, another passanger on the flight who made sure everyone else could escape while he was still locked in his seat (he died when the plane sank).

The 15 year old girl who fought an alligator to save her freind last year.

That's off the top of my head.

	21-11-2003 23:55									#39
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quote: In my opinion a hero is someone who does good, not for his own personal gain, but to benefit others. By that definition, you get a great number of not so newsworthy heroes.

But what's the risk?

	22-11-2003 00:09									#40
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Heroes aren't limited to people with authority. In fact, it's usually the opposite.

	22-11-2003 00:14									#41
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Another hero that comes to mind, is Harvey Milk.

	22-11-2003 00:28									#43
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what about the pope ?

	22-11-2003 00:29									#44
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The last real hero died during the movie "Gladiator"

	22-11-2003 00:30									#45
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You have a twisted mind, rah.

	22-11-2003 00:32									#46
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What about Nelson Mandela?

	22-11-2003 01:03									#47
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quote: Originally posted by MrFun You have a twisted mind, rah.

I'll take that as a compliment.

	22-11-2003 01:14									#48
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quote: Originally posted by monolith94

Yes, what about him?

	22-11-2003 01:35									#49
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A true hero will not only have to be couragous, brave, good, or even ethical. There would have to be something tragic to his mission. A foreboding sense of failure, yet a willingness to make that failure a magnifiscient one. Malcolm X and the Dalai Llama are perfectly good modern examples. A hero would have to move from one perception of reality to another, he must undergo a change, and a painful one. Therefore a hero must endure over time. That is the epic aspect. Time.

	22-11-2003 01:52									#50
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Its an interesting question, and one that I've pondered often, not from the point of view of when, but with regard to the effect that the absence of heros since the sixties has had on the decline in American moral values.

	22-11-2003 01:52									#51
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I am sorry, Tripledoc, but that's a crock of ****. maybe some heroes do, but many others don't.

	22-11-2003 01:59									#52
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How about the guy who stood in front of the line of Chinese tanks in Tiananmen Square? I think he qualifies.

	22-11-2003 01:59									#53
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Agreed. Any parents that sacrifice for their children, or anybody that risks their lives to help others makes the grade in my book.

	22-11-2003 02:15									#54
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I disagree totally. A hero is a literary invention. In the scandinavian language there is a differentiation between 'helt' (hero) and 'heltemodig' (hero-brave). So a person who made a spur of the moment sacrifice would not be considered a hero but rather 'hero-brave'. That is, brave like a hero, but not a hero as such. I think that the english language should do something to prevent this corruption and inflation of certain words.

	22-11-2003 02:24									#55
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The US told the whole world they didn't want any more heroes when the pulled the reins on Patton...

Heroes today are those who do their job, regardless of the consequinces, in order to sustain society.

	22-11-2003 02:33									#56
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I agree. Patton was a hero in the original sense of the word. He might have been a terrible, arrogant person, dangerous even, and that is exactly the point. A hero is a danger to the progress of modern society. They bring tragedy to all concerned.

	22-11-2003 02:39									#57
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Patton could not survive in the real world, he needed war, and the US gave it to him. Rather the war gave itself to him.

Since, however, the US does not seem exhaunerate ppl like him rather they prosecute them, or the keep hush hush... The cold war created what I like to call a "plastic curtain" around the civilians, blurring what is war and what we perseive to be it. Thus, many of those great warriors who survive "crimes of war" or some other BS, generally are never seen, and therefore cannot become the classic hero in a sense. Instead we get fed ppl like that girl who was captured... no mention of those who rescued her; the true classic heroes.

	22-11-2003 02:53									#58
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The soldiers who recued Jessica Lynch would perhaps fit that description. they were sent on a mission to rescue a captive. They believed in what they were doing. Then they find that they were merely used as tools in a publicity stunt. At least that is the perception. It would be interesting to find out what their feelings was about the whole affair. Then, again, the whole thing would get spun out of angle.

Another example is this senator from the U.S., I forget his name, who was a member of special forces during the Vietnam War. He was on a mission behind enemy lines which went terribly wrong and the unit he led unfortunately massacred a lot of innocents. He did what he did becasue he believed in his mission, but, as he has admitted himself, what he did was wrong. He has probably relived that incedent a million times since that. He went on a heroic mission, and it was heroic precisely because it would end in tragedy.

	22-11-2003 02:53									#59
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I agree with Tripledoc..there is a lot of counfounding words in the Engliosh language, of assuming the modern definition of heroes is the same as what it was when the word came into being. Ditto with honor, which was clsoely linked with Heroes.

	22-11-2003 02:57									#60
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Heroes die when their biographies are written.

Or when the tabloid press tells us more about them than we would ordinarily wish to know.

Nelson Mandela is to my mind an heroic individual- not simply for standing up to apartheid, but for championing the cause of a non-racist South Africa. And for not being consumed by hate when incarcerated. But I think more than a few Afrikaaners might not share that opinion.

One of the most moving things I saw was Albie Sachs after the fall of the apartheid regime- after a failed assassination attempt by the agents of South African secret services- demonstrating with his one remaining arm, what is the sound of one hand, clapping.

http://globetrotter.berkeley.edu/Sachs/sachs-con0.html