24-11-2003 03:22									#31
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No no no... I didn't do it to guilt trip him. It was just a side effect from it.

	24-11-2003 03:22									#32
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It doesn't work the second time!

	24-11-2003 03:28									#33
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To make it short, I agree with Ming completely.

I can imagine of very few cases when I would justify suicide. Most of the time, it seems to me like an act of cowardice, or moral weakness - certainly not noble or something. Exceptions could be situations like when you're being tortured terribly, and suicide is the only way to end it.

Think about people you love, your wife or kids. Would you die to prevent them from dying? If yes, that's because you don't want to live without them... now, think about it, someone else doesn't want to live without you. And you should care about that...

Another issue is, would you stop someone from commiting suicide? If an acquaitance of yours would try to jump out, would you stop him? You're sure that it's what he wants, he has said so, and that's his choice, he wants to end his life. I know, though, that I would do whatever I can to prevent that. While I am there, I would use physical power to prevent him from commiting suicide...

	24-11-2003 03:31									#34
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And on the other hand, is it really the best thing to be keeping a pulse for the sake of those who love you? That's what I've been doing for the past four or five years...

I mean, I'm really trying to generate some genuine desire to live, but it's not easy...

	24-11-2003 03:32									#35
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Rarely justified. Usually understandable. Always tragic.

	24-11-2003 03:39									#36
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Ming said it best.

As for my own opinion, "Where there's life, there's hope." I briefly considered committing suicide several years ago when I was clinically depressed. Took 4 months, and a complete upheaval of my life to get things back on track.

	24-11-2003 03:40									#37
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quote: Originally posted by Dom Pedro II And on the other hand, is it really the best thing to be keeping a pulse for the sake of those who love you? That's what I've been doing for the past four or five years... I mean, I'm really trying to generate some genuine desire to live, but it's not easy...

Go get a girlfriend. Hit the gym. Stop drinking. Start drinking. There. Try one.

	24-11-2003 03:42									#38
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Find a purpose and go fulfill it.

	24-11-2003 03:49									#39
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Exact- a purpose for living, everything relolves around it

	24-11-2003 03:50									#40
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Meaning if that purpose is taken away you find yourself back to square one. . .

	24-11-2003 03:53									#41
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Or rather, if you complete that purpose you are redundant unless you find another, so suicide would be a valid option, if you define yourself by purpose.

	24-11-2003 03:55									#42
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Hence the danger of needing a purpose in life. It all becomes very exhausting.

	24-11-2003 03:55									#43
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Ditch the academic discussion. Dom, listen to me. Sorry you were bumming. But you are a good-looking guy with lots of opportunities. If you need some meds, see a shrink. If you need some help, talk to a padre. And keep coming to Poly meets.

	24-11-2003 03:56									#44
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Verres: As opposed to?

	24-11-2003 04:09									#45
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quote: Originally posted by Whaleboy Verres: As opposed to?

Deciding that life has no actual purpose or meaning, so your duty is simply to make the best of it and enjoy it to whatever extent possible. In my experience (as limited and sheltered as it may be) constantly striving to find a purpose leads to misery, as you realise how insignificant you truly are, that you cannot change the world, and that the only life you have true control over is your own.

	24-11-2003 04:14									#46
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Trust me... a girlfriend is not what I need... One could argue that that's what got me into this mess in the first place.

I was working out as well.

And I was and am currently seeing a shrink. Like I said... I want to want to live. But right now... I don't.

	24-11-2003 04:14									#47
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Pretty stupid. Considering that afterwards there's nothing and everlasting blackness.

Better to stick around to the light even if all you manage to do is watch soapoperas.

	24-11-2003 04:17									#48
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quote: Pretty stupid. Considering that afterwards there's nothing and everlasting blackness.

wow, nothing AND infinity!

	24-11-2003 04:18									#49
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Well... the thing is though is that its not like we live forever if we don't kill ourselves. Death is inevitable... and as it is for eternity, you're going to spend A LOT more time on that side of death than for the eighty years on this side....

	24-11-2003 04:20									#50
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quote: Deciding that life has no actual purpose or meaning, so your duty is simply to make the best of it and enjoy it to whatever extent possible. In my experience (as limited and sheltered as it may be) constantly striving to find a purpose leads to misery, as you realise how insignificant you truly are, that you cannot change the world, and that the only life you have true control over is your own.

Constantly striving to find a purpose gives you greater insights into yourself, others and the world around you. Consider the world an art gallery, you are walking through while painting your own masterpiece. Far better I find that bumbling around measuring days in terms of shots consumed and clouds counted. Misery? Perhaps. Ignorance? Less of. "Greater" happiness? Come to papa!

Hedonism? Now who's being selfish?

	24-11-2003 04:20									#51
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I've thought about it. And sometimes I do get depressed and think about dying.


Suicide? I'm not the type.

This is a quote from a cool Rollins band song (pretty much all the songs on that album are cool).

Because I'm not the type of person to off themself. I know I will never do it.

to quote another song. "I won't go away". I like that quote as well. Even if my existance bothers some (sometimes I get the impression my existance bothers many people), I'm not going away.

	24-11-2003 04:21									#52
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quote: wow, nothing AND infinity!

Infinity rules! I find it somehow comforting that nothing human or finite lasts forever.

	24-11-2003 04:22									#53
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verres, pleonasm to underline what i'm saying.

pedro, well we dont live forever but we got some years left. what's the rush? as i said afterwards there's everlasting blackness. even soapoperas r better than that

	24-11-2003 04:22									#54
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quote: Originally posted by Whaleboy Hedonism? Now who's being selfish?

I perfer to call it realism.

	24-11-2003 04:24									#55
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quote: Originally posted by Dom Pedro II Trust me... a girlfriend is not what I need... One could argue that that's what got me into this mess in the first place. I was working out as well. And I was and am currently seeing a shrink. Like I said... I want to want to live. But right now... I don't.

Was it because I spent too much time chatting with kitty? Or because I broke up with Nina? Or because the train ride took a long time. Despair over your lateness, damnit! Come on. I will make you laugh.

	24-11-2003 04:25									#56
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I prefer to call it defeatism

	24-11-2003 04:28									#57
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quote: Originally posted by SlowwHand I've known two people that committed suicide. It's not the answer, and it's unfair to those who love you that have to live with it.

yes but that seems selfish to me.

So we must care about how bad the living will feel if we commit suicide? **** their guilt.

Some people don't know what it's like to go through a major depression. I do. I can see why people committ suicide. I think their pain should override any pain the living may encounter after the death of a loved one.

	24-11-2003 04:29									#58
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so many -isms. . . i would say the person who has already made the decision to end his own life far more of a defeatist than the girl who has finally accepted to deal with what she has and not search fruitlessly for something more.

	24-11-2003 04:35									#59
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Then you will fail to contribute anything to either yourself or the wider world around. Theres 6.2 billion more like that, at least you wont be alone.

If you understood the reasons behind my ambition then you would not suggest defeatism. If this is a strawman, tell me, but word defeatism implies that I have been defeated by the world and will run away by ending my life. If you are attempting to imply that this is the case with my position, then you are indeed using a strawman, which I ask to be retracted. According to your logic, I would regard my efforts of finding and fulfilling a purpose pointless and irrelevant, so I might as well skip the next 11 years and kill myself now, for the somewhat utilitarian reason of avoiding the pain I have yet to experience in the following decade (this, incidentally, is the logical conclusion of your argument, and the fault therein, whose result I of course wholeheartedly discourage).

Yet I am still here.

	24-11-2003 04:37									#60
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I'm not the type of person who can cheer others.

But you should take solace that your life isn't as bad as mine.

Sometimes I wish I never had any girlfriends. All they really did was get my hopes up. I feel like I was happier before I ever had my first girfriend. I never obsessed about women until after I had my first girlfriend. Getting a taste of it just made me want it more and more. Now it's all I can think about.

But in the meantime I discovered some things about myself. I know my lack of social graces will prevent me from actually "succeeding" in a relationship and actually getting married. I could take Paxil, or some other such drug, but I doubt that will help. I think I was meant to be a hermit. But I really don't want to be a hermit, I want to be a normal person. And I don't want a drug that prevents me from having sex. Sex is really all I care about anyways. What point is it getting married if I can't have sex?

It's not easy going through life knowing you will never get married and have children.

I really have nothing to look forward to in life except making money. Yet I'm really not that depressed- though I still do have bouts of short term depression- usually doesn't last over 1 day.