24-11-2003 02:04									#1
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I've had to deal a lot with this topic in the last two months or so.

What are your thoughts/feelings on the subject? Do you have a philosophy on it? Do you have experience with it directly or indirectly? Share personal opinions, stories, whatever.

Only thing I ask is that we keep this to PERSONAL suicide. No politics here, please.

	24-11-2003 02:09									#2
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I have to admit that I don't know what to think. I know that I don't think that it is an unforgiveable sin. I think that generally there are better choices which can be made, but understand that some people can't see them.

Jon Miller

	24-11-2003 02:13									#3
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On principal, i dont see a problem with it (basically because its down to personal choice, and i think the decision to end your own life is something that it should always be your liberty to do). However, when others do it it makes me extremely angry and despairing with the world in general. Like so many things, its easy to state your position on it, but feelings undoubtedly change when it happens close to you.

	24-11-2003 02:14									#4
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I've always disapproved of it for (among other reasons) the fact that in all likelihood suicide is going to cause a tremendous amount of psychological/emotional trauma to others. There may be exceptions (e.g., if I had an extremely painful terminal illness then I might consider suicide, since while my death might traumatize others my continued existence might traumatize them even more).

	24-11-2003 02:16									#5
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tried it, can't recommend

	24-11-2003 02:17									#6
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quote: I've always disapproved of it for (among other reasons) the fact that in all likelihood suicide is going to cause a tremendous amount of psychological/emotional trauma to others. There may be exceptions (e.g., if I had an extremely painful terminal illness then I might consider suicide, since while my death might traumatize others my continued existence might traumatize them even more).

I know for a fact that my continued existence is traumatizing, it's why I stick around...

Sorry, bad joke. Honestly though, that is pretty much the one reason that I'm against it because albeit it may be a personal choice, it is never without consequence to others... or least 99% of the time it is not without consequence to others.

	24-11-2003 02:19									#7
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Ecthelion, do you feel like going into further details, or would you rather not?

	24-11-2003 02:21									#8
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I have no problem with it, indeed I intend in all rationality to end my own life on my terms before my family heirlooms kick in, though that does not preclude the desire for an extended life should the unfortunate situation of children occur.

As long as people I love dont do it, I'm good!

	24-11-2003 02:22									#9
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rather not. just a sidenote, noone would have found me and... more at rotten dot com

	24-11-2003 02:28									#10
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quote: Originally posted by Whaleboy I have no problem with it, indeed I intend in all rationality to end my own life on my terms before my family heirlooms kick in, though that does not preclude the desire for an extended life should the unfortunate situation of children occur. As long as people I love dont do it, I'm good!

Once again, I feel I must point out how utterly selfish this is. You cant stand seeing those you love die, and will kill yourself to avoid it; yet dont care what effect your death would have on them. You wouldnt want them to commit suicide so what makes you think they could cope with you doing so?

	24-11-2003 02:33									#11
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People can live without me, I cant live without people. Its a case of feather and birds. Besides, I'm not majorly sociable so its not like thousands of people will lay flowers outside my door and chuck lillies at my hurst!

Nonetheless, your argument makes the fallacious assumption that I do not care about the effect it would have on those who love me, whereas that is of course not the case. It is a predicament that leaves me two solutions. Reduce the number of people that love me, or die regardless. Both is good!

Last edited by Whaleboy on 24-11-2003 at 02:42

	24-11-2003 02:35									#12
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quote: not very sociable

we can tell by your avatar icon...

	24-11-2003 02:36									#13
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Its a Saturn V, not an ICBM .

Still.... space is kinda cool..

	24-11-2003 02:42									#14
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what makes you so sure of that Whaleboy? As you are well aware, i dont disagree with suicide at all, I simply think the reason you give for it is terrible. People kill themselves for many reasons, some of them more logical than others. . . but someone deciding years in advance that they will end their life simply so that they never have to deal with the inevitable event of someone they love dying? None of us can live without people (whether we care to admit it or not) yet accept the fact that life is a ***** and we will lose those we care for. High time you got used to the fact and stopped undermining a serious issue with your petty insecurities and narcissism.

	24-11-2003 02:46									#15
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I almost tried it two times and was lucky the day I planned the second one was raining and didn't want to be found as a dead corpse soaked and pale like a ghost.. can't believe what I was going to do

	24-11-2003 02:51									#16
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Well, if you feel like sharing, what were you going to do? Obviously it was going to be an outdoor act...

	24-11-2003 02:51									#17
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I hope you are not thinking about this, Dom. You seemed like a happy, good-looking young guy. Hope you are not having to deal with it from a family member.

	24-11-2003 02:52									#18
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Verres: Have you ever had someone you love die on you?

I consider it a serious issue for all but myself, for me, we all die, it merely seems logical, and frankly desireable to me to resolve that question in my own manner, not in a way that would cause me excessive pain, and suffering that would amplify any pain felt by others. Call it pre-emptive if you will.

quote: None of us can live without people (whether we care to admit it or not) yet accept the fact that life is a ***** and we will lose those we care for.

I fully accept that as an inevitable part of life. For someone who takes comfort in non-permanance, you should know that I understand it almost to the point of preoccupation on a philosophical level (sic idealism).

You say petty insecurities and narcissism? I concur. *Whaleboy bites another delicious pickled onion*.

	24-11-2003 02:53									#19
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Well, actually, I didn't really want to get into it... but I'm already on the other side of thinking about it. Spent a week in the hospital a few weeks ago. Not proud of it, but that's the situation.

	24-11-2003 02:57									#20
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I've known two people that committed suicide.
It's not the answer, and it's unfair to those who love you that have to live with it.

	24-11-2003 02:59									#21
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I planned to either jump off the bridge or standing on the rail line and waiting for the night cargo- of course now I luckily realize there are so many things world has to offer me, and so many persons I want to step on- ahem no, really, it's a matter of finding your role in life

	24-11-2003 02:59									#22
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quote: Originally posted by Whaleboy Verres: Have you ever had someone you love die on you? I consider it a serious issue for all but myself, for me, we all die, it merely seems logical, and frankly desireable to me to resolve that question in my own manner, not in a way that would cause me excessive pain, and suffering that would amplify any pain felt by others. Call it pre-emptive if you will. I fully accept that as an inevitable part of life. For someone who takes comfort in non-permanance, you should know that I understand it almost to the point of preoccupation on a philosophical level (sic idealism). You say petty insecurities and narcissism? I concur. *Whaleboy bites another delicious pickled onion*.

Yes Whaleboy, I have. Her death had the effect of making me look at my own life and realise what i was becoming. Dont assume me to be so naive that i am unable to realise the harm losing someone you love can do; not telling you about it doesnt mean I wasnt hurt.

	24-11-2003 02:59									#23
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And that's exactly the reason why I didn't succeed, or haven't tried before or since...

	24-11-2003 03:00									#24
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Surely whether or not it is the answer depends on the question?

	24-11-2003 03:02									#25
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Datajack, I'm glad you've found reason to live.

	24-11-2003 03:03									#26
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In most cases... A permanent solution to a temporary problem...

	24-11-2003 03:03									#27
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quote: Originally posted by Dom Pedro II Well, actually, I didn't really want to get into it... but I'm already on the other side of thinking about it. Spent a week in the hospital a few weeks ago. Not proud of it, but that's the situation.

duuuude. Don't be doing **** like that. I will play for your chow and brews at the next Poly meet. Just don't be messing with crap like that.

	24-11-2003 03:13									#28
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quote: Yes Whaleboy, I have. Her death had the effect of making me look at my own life and realise what i was becoming. Dont assume me to be so naive that i am unable to realise the harm losing someone you love can do; not telling you about it doesnt mean I wasnt hurt.

I am well aware of the harm that losing someone can do, I am very well aware the harm it can do when you feel a sense of responsibility for that death. Do not assume I am making the assumption that you are naive merely because I ask you a question whose response would contribute to such a critical analysis. Connotations are notoriously hard to express and receive accurately through hastily written text, as a result, I try to rarely assume they are there, unless clearly deliberate. If that appeared the case, it was not.

Back on topic. When ones reasons for outweigh the reasons against for taking a particular action, that action becomes logical. The means for defining that is down to the individual, and it is not up to outside individuals to deride that logic and personal disposition, merely because it disagrees with their own. That is not how communication works. Instead, one must attempt to understand the logic of the beholder, and either work within that to change their views or use a two-way discourse to interact with their own (shared assumptions to expose faulty reasoning). You will have little success changing someones mind when it is made up, unless (like in most suicides I presume), the action has not been thought out. As you know, I like to think that the latter is not the case, otherwise it would fluctuate from day to day.

	24-11-2003 03:18									#29
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Interesting story... my action caused one of my former friends to realize that he'd made a huge mistake in abandoning the group of people who really cared about him. And he's been trying to make amends since then.

	24-11-2003 03:20									#30
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Dude...that is kinda wierd. You did this to guilt trip your friend into hanging out more?

Now if you had done this, to get some brews and a Poly party funded by GP...that would be...still wierd. But anyway, you are a big bufff guy. Don't do **** like that. Just go squash seomthing.