14-02-2001 05:33									#1
	The Mars Project: Ideas Increase the size of your Attachments

I decided on a name:

The Mars Project.

Sounds neat.

Ok, first off, I'm going to make it for FW. Second, I'm making a map now for the first step.

Then, I want to make terrain. I need some ideas for terrain and terrain ideas.

I must have permafrost; for those who don't know its a landform that absorbs chemicals in the air, and when its melted, the chemicals are released back into the air. I need canyon, regular soil and rock, water, but what else? Any other ideas?

Forests? If the scenario is a little unrealistic and lasts hundreds of years game time, forests could grow eventually. As could rivers appear. Maybe rivers should be marked as CANALS and be like canyon with waterless rivers.

Now, change terrain would be used as water pipes from the icecaps melted techology and the pipes technology. That will be a good plan.

Any other just regular ideas?

By the way, here is a preview of the units:


Any ideas are welcome!

	14-02-2001 06:46									#2
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Weren't you going to use rivers as aquifers?


Is the map going to include Earth or not?


If you are going to include later-stage terraforming, i think there definitely needs to be a tundra-type terrain which would be the first step in terraforming, representing the introduction of genetically engineered fungi, lichen, and small plants, which would be neccessary for later forests to grow. Perhaps The terrains could be transformed into this tundra, and then the tundra could be transformed into forests or a plains-type terraing.

I'm pretty sure nearly all of Mars is permafrost, just that in some areas there are varios things on top of the permafrost, such as varios colors of dust, or extensive rock-fields, or in some areas the permafrost is cut away to create canyons, cliffs, craters, or Badlands-type formations. There are also some areas of very rough irregular terrain, kinda like a giant version of that rough type of hawaiian lava flow.

	14-02-2001 07:35									#3
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The map is an FW map, so it won't include Earth.

	14-02-2001 08:21									#4
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I'd suggest that you have multiple terrain files, that change over time as terraforming progresses.

For example, assign one of the multiple graphic terrain types (eg forest, hills or mountains) to canyon terrain. At the start of the terrafroming these would be dry and very unproductive. As terraforming continues replace the graphics to show them filling up with water and becoming an asset instead of a liability (though the cost of crossing them would have to remain high).

Also, as terraforming progresses the stats for exhisting terrain would need to change to reflect the alterations to the environment. For example, over time the atmosphere would warm up, causing the permafrost to turn into a swamp. To reflect this the permafrost's movement cost and production would have to rise and fall respectively.

By changing the stats of the landscape you would force the player to react to the new environment by building new cities and killing off the old ones.


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	14-02-2001 17:18									#5
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Polaris, I agree with Case: multiple terrain files and changes to the rules.txt over a gradual period of time are the way to go - there would simply be too much information to try and change the terrain via events.

This is probably so elementary it probably doesn't need stating, but remember to be careful when it comes to assigning your new terrain to slots. in my experience, the computer only builds cities on the terrain in the grassland or plains slots... no matter how enticing you make any other terrain in another slot, the computer in almost every case will never build there.

Have you decided on what Civs to use in the game yet?

	14-02-2001 19:10									#6
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Some terrain suggestions could be sand dunes, which do exist in many regions of Mars, and vulcanic rock or basalts.

You could also use the forest grafics as a third kind of hill or mountain or even as canyons or none-navigable rivers in the later game.

I reckon there are some superb webpages out there with plenty of images that you can use. The pages of the Jet Propulsion Laboratories are full of them.

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	15-02-2001 00:36									#7
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Thanks for the input, guys.

Case, great idea. Our_man, really? Just grassland and plains? That gives me a few new ideas. Interesting.

Not yet on Civs; I'll do that soon.

Hendrick, I found several sites that are interesting. I converted those units above from various space sites I found and Mars planning sites.

	15-02-2001 01:35									#8
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George, perhaps you can use the global warming effect of the standard civ to simulate terrain changes caused by terraforming? But this would require probably a lot of testing...

	15-02-2001 02:27									#9
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It is a possibility if we can find out what makes global warming happen and when it happens. Doing terraforming through events is easier, but will take more time and more events (a bunch).

	15-02-2001 03:14									#10
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I did some testing on this some time ago but was unfortunatly intelligent enough not to write down the results. But it is predictable the problem may be that placing terrain according to the patterns of global warming might make the job very hard.

If you want me to I can start testing again...or do you want to do it yourself?

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	15-02-2001 04:00									#11
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Hmm, I thought nuclear strikes increase the risk of global warming. Perhaps you could modify nuclear weapons as bio pods (or whatever) and change the pollution icon into a terrain that is "between" the normal marsscape and the later, terraformed terrains?

If this works, the mars terrain would develop faster with the use of these "nuclear" bio pods.

	15-02-2001 04:16									#12
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The problem with nuclear weapons is that they can destroy already existing terrain improvements. But on the other hand that might be just what we want...

Edit: I just had great fun when I used Babelfish to translate this discussion thread into German. I haven't seen such a bad German since I was last in...well... I can't think of any place right now. But you really need to try this!

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[This message has been edited by Hendrik the Great (edited February 14, 2001).]

	15-02-2001 05:12									#13
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Yeah, Babelfish is great! It´s more entertaining than anything else

	15-02-2001 05:42									#14
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...except Civilization II.

Great ideas; Hendrick, if you could test, you'd be in the readme several times and I'd be forever grateful.

Hmmm... improvements I want to be improvements and not new terrain; we'll see. I might just stick to technology being terraforming?

Thanks again.

	15-02-2001 15:39									#16
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I will start testing tomorrow that's when my final exams or over so I do have the time I need.

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	17-02-2001 15:00									#17
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Thanks Hendrick. I appreciate it.

Technology List (in no particular order):
[*]Terraformation
[*]Terraforming Tools
[*]Terraforming Location I
[*]Terraforming Location II
[*]Terraforming Location III
[*]Terraforming Location IV
[*]Terraforming Location V
[*]Terraforming Location VI
[*]Terraforming Location VII
[*]Terraforming Location VIII
[*]Terraforming Location IX
[*]Terraforming Location X
[*]Ecopoiesis (Martian Biosphere)
[*]Air Purification
[*]Wind Power
[*]Water Pumping
[*]Permafrost Heating
[*]Hydrochemistry
[*]Atmospherical Sphere
[*]Radar Seismology
[*]Canyon Farming
[*]Soil Mining
[*]Silicon Purification
[*]Solar Power
[*]Adv. Water Pumping
[*]Hydrogen Gelling
[*]Nano Robotics
[*]Adv. Nano Robotics
[*]Nano Agriculture
[*]Hydrogen Fuel Cells
[*]Geothermal Power
[*]Geothermal Development
[*]Developed Alloys
[*]Expanded Atmosphere
[*]Breathable Capsules
[*]Soil Irrigation
[*]Ceramic Microtubes
[*]Primitive Plantae
[*]Plantae Growth
[*]Plantae Modification
[*]Plantae Engineering
[*]Bacteria Examination
[*]Pole Heating
[*]Purification Engine
[*]Biomonitoring
[*]Thermal Appliance
[*]Thermal Suit
[*]Water Absorbtion
[*]Water Condensation
[*]Thermofusion Mining
[*]Robotic Agriculture
[*]Coastal Units
[*]Solar Dynamic Power
[*]Plumbing
[*]Coastal Sail
[*]Pressurized Boating
[*]Underwater Robotics
[*]Outgassing
[*]Soil Processing
[*]Commerce Capsules
[*]Intercolonial Commerce
[*]Microfusing Transportation

And maybe more. I don't know if all of them will fit, of course.

	17-02-2001 16:25									#18
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Just to give you a small update on my testing. I devised a suitable map for it now and will start polluting it today. Expect first results by, well, sunday, perhaps monday.

BTW, I'm not just doing this out of kindness, although I am a nice guy, but more because I'll need it myself but I figured why keep it a secret...

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	17-02-2001 18:43									#19
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Hendrick, if you give me your secret scenario (?) or secret thing via PM, I will give you mine. (seriously)

I have work off for about 9-10 more days, so that's alright with me.

	17-02-2001 18:50									#20
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Alright I didn't have anything more important to do so here are my results. I played on a pre-made map, normal size and round. Diffculty level of deity and no Barbs. The distance from the equator did not seem to make a large difference although I think that the change to all jungle and swamp is a bit faster there than closer to the poles. But I still have to test that...

[Edit] How can I make this look like a neat table? It looks all messed up...

--------Coast:---------Inland:----Endresult:

Desert: Swamp----------Swamp----------Swamp
Praire: Swamp,Desert---Desert---------Swamp
Grassland:Swamp--------Prarie---------Swamp
Forest: Jungle,Prarie--Prarie,Jungle--Jungle

Hills: No Change Whatsoever
Mountains: No Change Whatsoever
Swamp: No Change Whatsoever
Jungle: No Change Whatsoever
Tundra: No Change Whatsoever
Glacier: No Change Whatsoever
Ocean: No Change Whatsoever

The Planet will heat up more rapidly if no action is taken against the polution and larger areas will be affected at once. The pace of global warming will level somewhere between 10 turns min and 20 turns max.

Desert and Prarie will only turn into Swamp if neighbouring squares are swamp already.

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[This message has been edited by Hendrik the Great (edited February 17, 2001).]
[This message has been edited by Hendrik the Great (edited February 17, 2001).]
[This message has been edited by Hendrik the Great (edited February 17, 2001).]

	17-02-2001 18:59									#21
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So far this idea of mine is still that, an idea.

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	17-02-2001 19:12									#22
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Journal

Event per terra-forming will replace rules and terrain.gif.
Pop-up text will tell the player to switch these with 1 out of the 10 different terrain files and rules files just for the terrain. There may be just two terrain files and then 10 different rules files to change statistics of terrains.
Testing on this must go on first, however. It might disrupt the technology and unit rules if it modifies by accident.
Terrains will include the following:
[*]Permafrost
[*]Mars Dust
[*]Genetically Engineered Fungi
[*]Canal
[*]Soil
[*]Rock Fields
[*]Water Ice Field (in the Poles)
[*]Volcanic Plains
[*]Canyon
---
Res:
[*]Buried Brine, Ice, Water
[*]Oxygen Deposits
[*]Nitrogen Deposits
[*]Thermals
[*]Superoxides
[*]Minerals
---
[*]Swamp (-permafrost)
[*]Plains (-Mars Dust)
[*]Forest (-gen. eng. plants)
[*]Rivers (-canals)
[*]Grassland (-soil
[*]Desert (-rock fields)
[*]Oceans (-water ice field)
???[*]Mountains (--volcanic plains)???
???[*]Hills (-canyon)???
---
Res:
[*]Toxic Ocean (-buried brine, ice, water)
[*]Purified Oxygen (-oxygen deposits)
[*]Purified Nitrogen (-nitrogen deposits)
[*]Purified Thermals (-thermals)
[*]Developed Suberoxides (-superoxides)
[*]Developed Minerals (-minerals)

I need some opnions on Mountains and Hills with Volcanic Plains and Canyons.

That's not all the terrains by far.

	17-02-2001 19:14									#23
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Very interesting, Hendrick. Thank you. I might use it somehow, but I can't think of how now (perhaps purification?).

Ideas are fine.

	17-02-2001 19:43									#24
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I'd say keep the mountains. There are mountains on Mars and also Hill ranges. If I remember correctly there are large hill ranges on the northern hemisphere but I could be mistaken.

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	17-02-2001 19:44									#25
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I'd say keep the mountains. There are mountains on Mars and also Hill ranges. If I remember correctly there are large hill ranges on the northern hemisphere but I could be mistaken.

If the "polution" option is used for terraforming it can be applied well I believe. What do you mean by purification?

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	18-02-2001 02:07									#26
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Alright, Hendrick; but a lot of mountains on Mars are red barren mountains; so the graphic and stats will just change.

Purified is Nitrogen or Oxygen or whatever taken from the ground and processed and developed (taken from the ground via permafrost and soil).

	19-02-2001 06:43									#28
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Mountains: Mountains
Hills: Low Elevation/Low Mountains
Grassland: Soil
Plains: Lowlands
Desert: Canyon
Forest: Genetically Engineered Fungi
Water: Ice Fields
Swamp: Permafrost Fields
Jungle: Volcanic Plains
Tundra: Canyon
Glacier: Mars Dust

	19-02-2001 11:19									#29
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Map without:
Ocean/Ice Fields
Tundra/?????
Rivers/Canals

	20-02-2001 00:10									#30
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I'm not sure but I don't think that you can only take allevation levels as a measure to determine if to put down mountains or not or to determine the terrain type IMHO. Although the allevation in certain regions is very high above the Marsian mean they can still be flat like panecacke. If you stood on Olympus Mons for example you would not be able to determine whether you are on a mountain or not. It's the same with all the plateaus.

Can't you find a map that shows terrain features instead of allevations levels?



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