28-11-2003 16:20									#31
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Also includes the sacking of the training manager as part of the deal

	28-11-2003 19:15									#32
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Good luck, Richard. I, too, think that you've been wronged.

	28-11-2003 19:35									#33
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quote: Oh my God, everything has gone wrong!

That's a cool song title...

	28-11-2003 22:05									#34
	Re: Oh my God, everything has gone wrong! Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

quote: Originally posted by Provost Harrison the training manager, claiming that I was socially inept

He must be prejudiced against cherryade.

	28-11-2003 22:29									#35
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duke o' york: Well about the temp thing, the work was arranged through an agency, but I was on a contract, so it wasn't like I was just temping.

Bear in mind people, they have not even tried to claim incompetency or gross misconduct or negligence, they have tried to claim I was not socially compatible with the position although there have been no incidents, in fact, I got along with everyone very well. They were singing my praises until the very end, even after they'd informed me of my dismissal.

Well I will be going to Leeds on Monday to see my agency representative. I was in contact with them this morning and they seem to be mystified by the whole thing. There has been no correspondence of dissatisfaction back to them at all right up until they decided to dismiss me. They were meeting about me an hour before I was ousted, next door to my office, conspiring and planning (they said they were).

My major concern is the damage to my reputation. It is hard to find a job without them causing me hell like this, especially when I have done nothing but conducted myself with professionalism until the bitter end.

I will have my satisfaction in this matter.

	28-11-2003 22:32									#36
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Pistols at dawn?

	28-11-2003 22:35									#37
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quote: Originally posted by Zylka What exactly was your role in this company

Regulatory Compliance Officer. I was responsible for releasing batches and made sure that their manufacture was up to GMP standards, and maintaining GMP critical systems.

The strange thing is, I thought I was going to have the downer to end all downers with this 'rejection'. But it didn't, it gave me strength. I have been getting my story together, I have sent letters (recorded delivery) demanding in writing (which I was not given) the reason for my dismissal. They have given me some flimsy excuse about 'not fitting in' with no examples of how, nothing quoted or no complaints.

	28-11-2003 22:37									#38
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Did you offend anybody important? Did they want someone else of theirs to get your job? It certaintly seems like an unfair dismissal...

	28-11-2003 22:46									#39
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quote: Originally posted by Big Crunch went into a salary review and was told there wasn't enough money to increase my salary. Times were tough. The attractive girl who had gone in before me had been awarded a $2,000/year pay rise. I also asked why persons with less experience and aptitude for the role I was doing were being paid more than me (2 years experience and professional exam passes vs 6 months experience and no study). The firm said they weren't being paid more, I must have been mistaken. I named the two girls who I was explicitly refering to. His face went red and he shuffled his papers a bit, feigning to look at their salary figure. A moment later he said "Frankly they do a better job than you". Which was laughable given that on my previous few job reviews manager had graded my work as excellent and said that I was "a valuable asset of the team" and that I was "The rising star of auditing". I showed him photocopies of my reviews proving such comments. He didn't have anything to say except that if I failed my upcoming exams I would not be kept on (a contractual get out clause for them). I failed one of the six exams by 1%. BY then it didn't matter because I had already resigned instead. Several people I know jumped/were pushed at and around the same time and were given similar phoney excuses.

I'm sorry to hear that Big Crunch. Some people will do anything and stab anyone if they think they will get something out of it.

	28-11-2003 22:48									#40
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The rising star of auditing

	28-11-2003 22:54									#41
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Right- action stations.

Write down your version of all events. Clearly document when any potential failures/development areas on your part were brought to your attention by your employers. Pay specific attention to anything taking place prior to the incident with the Training Manager.

If any development areas were brought to your attention, be sure to document the timescales agreed for review of the situation, and any criteria by which success or failure would be measured. Be ruthless and document any criticism or "helpful advice" you can recall. This will all help you if this goes to an industrial tribunal.

One other thing. In your next job, make damned sure you join the union.

	28-11-2003 23:10									#42
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Most jobs in the US aren't union so it's hard to find union jobs. I know Crunchy is in Oz but I'd bet Oz has the same low union rates the US has.

	28-11-2003 23:35									#43
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We should do something about that.

Sorry to hear about your troubles, comrade. Given 'em hell.

	29-11-2003 00:05									#44
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Thanks Laz, now my mind is clearer I am writing everything down and dating it. I am going to pay extra special attention to the points you have mentioned. Looking at the evidence, even the flimsy excuse they have given for my dismissal is exposed as blatantly false. I have more character references than there have been expansion packs for The Sims, and that is excluding you lot And when people were coming to me specifically at work to help them and resolve their problems, does this sound like someone who was not fitting into the team? No, it's plain and simple envy and fear of my potential...

	29-11-2003 00:43									#45
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It's more likely to a be a personality clash with a raging ego in a senior position who's unfamiliar with the concept of modifying one's outward personality to accommodate others in a working relationship.

I used to be a training manager, and based on your account of events I'd have to describe the treatment you received as shockingly unprofessional. No trainer should ever dole out unconstructive and judgemental criticism. Their job is to develop others, not act as some sort of vocational hangman.

On the plus side- well done for handling this positively. Be sure to reward yourself for doing so.

	29-11-2003 00:57									#46
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Thanks Laz, I am glad to have your advice on this matter. In hindsight my course of action was the best one - I stayed quiet at the time, and now I am putting everything into place.

	29-11-2003 04:26									#47
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They probably figure you are like the riff-raff you hang with here.
You know, birds of a feather flock together. Like that.
Now, can you blame them? No. You can't. You can't blame them at all.
The Japher's. The DinoDoc's. The Urban Ranger's.
You're lucky you're just sacked, and not incarcerated.

	29-11-2003 04:28									#48
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hey slowwhand, for future reference, you don't use apostrophe marks when indicating plurals. You only use them when indicating possession.

	29-11-2003 04:30									#49
	Remove this text

Thank you, teacher.


The monoliths. See? You could be under a prison.

	29-11-2003 14:25									#50
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quote: Originally posted by SlowwHand They probably figure you are like the riff-raff you hang with here.

You're calling Markos and Dan riff-raff? And Ming, rah, and MtG too?

Ha ha, you will be hanged by your balls before dawn.

	29-11-2003 19:16									#51
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As I said, I am focussed, and now I think of this as completely positive. I am glad I am not working for a firm that would treat me like that, and with a clearing of my reputation (apology, glowing reference) and some compensation I may finally get my chance to see the world! Let us hope that this becomes a 'thankyou Novartis for f**king up' thread

	29-11-2003 23:08									#52
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Keep us noted of any developments. Hasn't this happened to you before?

	29-11-2003 23:11									#53
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quote: Originally posted by notyoueither Concern for your name in your chosen field is very understandable. It's not like a McJob you can simply leave off your resume, is it?

How long has PH worked there? If it is not very long then just leve it off of your resume and if someone asks what you were doing during that time tell them you took a long trip to America or something.

	30-11-2003 00:55									#54
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Sorry to hear that.

It reminds me very much of what happened to the senior microbiologist in charge of me during (some of) my placement year. He seemed ace at the job, and one day they called him in for a meeting and just fired him, bammo. Nasty stuff.

	30-11-2003 01:11									#55
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Blimey, reading more of the thread it's like deja vu- the guy in charge of me who was fired had exactly the same role as you within the department! I later found out (although it may be idle rumouring) that there was a problem with one product after it had been released and it had to be recalled at acost of many tens of thousands of pounds, and someone had to pay for it.

However, he was still in a long probation period so he had no legal recourse. It was very sudden and contradictory too- they had just a couple of days before booked him a flight to America for a conference!

	30-11-2003 01:43									#56
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OMG .. no way .. thats well out of order Prov ..

Seems you're approaching this in exactly the right way, and I really do wish you all the best ..

Is it me, or are some British companies stuck in the victorian age ??

	30-11-2003 01:44									#57
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quote: Originally posted by C0ckney i would be a little cautious about the wrongful dismisal route, while it may be the right thing to do, it could mark you out as a trouble-maker to future employers. especially if this is a well known and respected company in your field.

Probably, but if PH holds onto his info then he can present the full story at any Q&A during the interview process. Any manager who wants someone who can solve problems under pressure would see an asset not a potential problem.

I don't know about Britains laws, but even in non-Right to Work states you can't just dismiss someone w/o cause, unless they're employed thru a temp agency. Well you can, but w/o cause the employee can sue you for unemployment and win, and possibly collect punitive damages as well. Good luck.

	30-11-2003 02:47									#58
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Well, until you get this thing settled, know that you have our sympathy and best wishes.

	30-11-2003 04:40									#59
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In most of America the law is that employers are "at will" employers who can fire their people at will. Of course if you've worked there for more then 90 days the bastards have to pay for you unemployment benifets and possibly a severence package but that's it.

	30-11-2003 04:46									#60
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quote: Originally posted by Oerdin In most of America the law is that employers are "at will" employers who can fire their people at will. Of course if you've worked there for more then 90 days the bastards have to pay for you unemployment benifets and possibly a severence package but that's it.

[trolling Oerdin]Good thing that we have a reasonable social security system payed for by the taxpayer over here in Kommie Euroland...[/trolling Oerdin]