30-11-2003 04:55									#61
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PH, sorry to hear that. I don't know what you should do, so I'm not trying to give you any advices but one. If you go down, drag them with you. All the way. Fight the power! They drew the first blood.. If it's 100% sure you'll be screwed over, screw them as much as you can without getting into trouble with the cops doing it.

	30-11-2003 06:18									#62
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Well the thing that is in my favour is that they are in breach of contract. I was given a month probationary period which I passed with flying colours, and my good work continued. But unlike your example Gibsie, there were no reasons for dismissal whatsoever apart from their flimsy, concocted excuse. And as someone said, it has only been a month or so, the agency that employed me seems very positive about me going by my phonecall on Friday with them (I am seeing them in person in Leeds on Monday morning). And as the duration was short I can easily work my way around it. But I do want my satisfaction.

Oh Stew, yeah, the whole PhD thing...it was different because I was dissatisfied about the whole situation but I resigned my PhD and it was acknowledged on both sides that things had gone wrong and it was a mutual parting. They provided me with a good reference and made it easy for me to get Jobseekers Allowance. All parties involved agreed I wasn't cut out for the academic life, something they realised more clearly before I did. Hence I have been more successful in an academic environment. My relations with my former department have been cordial, hell, I've been in to help them with trials pretty recently in fact (as a paid volunteer of course, but I certainly wish them all the luck in what they do).

But I will get another job, my experience is too earthscorching to do otherwise

	30-11-2003 07:01									#63
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quote: Originally posted by Provost Harrison They've given me almost double my notice periods worth. I think they are trying to pay me off. You see, they have no real reason for dismissal, and if they don't prove this within 14 days of dismissal, they are automatically culpable. The person who has to demand this proof is me. In other words, I have them by the knackers because I am under contract. And another point, they never gave me my pay rise of nearly £2000 a year, which after a month of employment they are contractually obliged to do. They are so far in the wrong you wouldn't believe.

Sounds like you've got an excellent case, get a good lawyer and nail these bastards to the wall.

	30-11-2003 07:22									#64
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that sucks provo... FIGHT THE POWER$%^#$%^#$% DOWN WITH CAPITALISM!!!$%^$%^#$

good luck to you...

for $20k US and travel expenses, I'll kill them for you...

	30-11-2003 21:16									#65
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quote: Originally posted by Oerdin In most of America the law is that employers are "at will" employers who can fire their people at will. Of course if you've worked there for more then 90 days the bastards have to pay for you unemployment benifets and possibly a severence package but that's it.

Actually the employee only needs to work 1 day to get something if the employer fubars the firing cause enough. Or if the employer doesn't send a rep before the judge and the employee or his rep does show (during a unemployment hearing), the judge will almost always side with the employee. The EEOC is very willing to listen to cases of bad or neglectful management, and prescribe legal counsel.

	01-12-2003 02:57									#66
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quote: Originally posted by Oerdin Most jobs in the US aren't union so it's hard to find union jobs. I know Crunchy is in Oz but I'd bet Oz has the same low union rates the US has.

The job I was talking about was the one I had in the UK before I left.

	01-12-2003 20:05									#67
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Under English law an employee has a statutory right not to be unfairly dismissed but only after he or she has completed 12 months continuous employment with the employer.

So, subject to what the particular contract may stipulate, an employer is free to dismiss a recent employee capriciously without coming under an obligation of law to pay compensation.

That said, if the employer dismisses the employee on grounds of sex, race, disability or gender reassignment compensation is payable however short the period of employment.

(Age, sexual orientation and religion are in the process oif being added to that list but are not included at the moment.)

	01-12-2003 21:23									#68
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*Rubs eyes*
*Rubs eyes again*

Hello EST!

	01-12-2003 23:46									#69
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I thought that had been tightened up considerably lately EST?

And there is another point, apparently there is a three month period where the contract states that either party can terminate the contract with a month's notice. However there is no statement as to whether reason has to be given. What would apply in this case?

I think the petrol bomb will be my only course of revenge at this point

	01-12-2003 23:53									#70
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Nope, one year.

Looks like these f**kers have successfully arse raped me with no reason...sickening.

	02-12-2003 00:04									#71
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Why? I mean why? I just think I am getting sorted and the rug is so cruelly pulled from beneath my feet. Did I have a tattoo that says '**** me over' tattooed on my forehead?

I don't want remarkable luck, I don't want riches beyond my wildest dreams, I just want a normal life, to be acknowledged for my skills and abilities, not to be resented at every turn. Everything that can go wrong does go wrong. Even if something seems to work out for once it never seems to be anything other than a carrot dangled to tantalise me.

F**k this country, f**k this society, f**k this world, I have done nothing to deserve this

	02-12-2003 00:17									#72
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quote: I just want a normal life, to be acknowledged for my skills and abilities, not to be resented at every turn.

Doesnt sound a normal life to me...

	02-12-2003 00:22									#73
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EST sighting +1!!!

	02-12-2003 00:23									#74
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But what is it with these people? I haven't done anything wrong whatsoever but they have obviously taken delight in trying to make life as hard for me as possible.

	02-12-2003 00:26									#75
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People love hurting others and causing emotional pain. I think what they did to you is completely wrong, but its completely fruitless to try and find a reason for it. Just accept they are bastards and move on.

	02-12-2003 00:32									#76
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I've been through a wrongful dismissal before, but in NZ. I imagine the laws are fairly similar in England though. Definitely seek legal advice PH - I got a large settlement when I went through this.

	02-12-2003 00:32									#77
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But what do I do now? There is no future. Every time I think there is it gets pulled away abruptly. I just don't see the point. I can never be one of those normal little humans.

	02-12-2003 00:34									#78
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...and then if you win, will employers be scared of employing you? This is a really, really stupid world we live in.

	02-12-2003 00:35									#79
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When I started learning bassoon I had a great instructor. I advanced rather quickly, as is the norm for me and wind instruments, yet like most kids and many musicians I was also very picky and tempormental about my music. I practiced for perfection and he taught for good enough. We never fought, but one day I showed up for my lesson and he told me he didn't want to teach me any more... and he left it at that, slammed the door in my face.

I had no idea why this happened.

Anyway, a few weeks later I auditioned for a youth orchestra, got in and was offered lessons from the 1st chair of the normal symphony orchestra. I readily accepted, and found him to be not only a much better musician, but a much better instructor who strived for the same level of perfection as I did.

Moral of the story? I don't really have one, just thought since you were out a job you'd have time to waste

Honestly, this totally sucks. Clear your name.

Many things happen for a reason, it would just be nice to get one!

	02-12-2003 00:35									#80
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Of course there's a future - its just going to be a little different from what you expected. As for not being able to be one of those normal little humans.....i would imagine you are in good company here

	02-12-2003 00:36									#81
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Come the revolution, I will be there with a list, a lamp post and a noose, believe me!

	02-12-2003 00:40									#82
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quote: Originally posted by Provost Harrison But what do I do now? There is no future. Every time I think there is it gets pulled away abruptly. I just don't see the point. I can never be one of those normal little humans.

There is a future. Have you spoken to a lawyer yet? Even if the laws are not in your favor (as EST seems to indicate) a lawyer might be able to scare them into paying a settlement. When this happened to me in NZ the lawyer was willing to help me on a contingency basis - i.e. he took a percentage of my settlement as payment, but if he got me nothing I owed him nothing.

Go to a citizens advice bureau (or something like that) and you should be able to get free legal advice.

quote: ...and then if you win, will employers be scared of employing you? This is a really, really stupid world we live in.

Don't worry about that, your name will be cleared.

Chin up mate, it's not the end of the world. I got through it, and you will too.

	02-12-2003 00:42									#83
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quote: Originally posted by Japher When I started learning bassoon I had a great instructor. I advanced rather quickly, as is the norm for me and wind instruments, yet like most kids and many musicians I was also very picky and tempormental about my music. I practiced for perfection and he taught for good enough. We never fought, but one day I showed up for my lesson and he told me he didn't want to teach me any more... and he left it at that, slammed the door in my face. I had no idea why this happened. Anyway, a few weeks later I auditioned for a youth orchestra, got in and was offered lessons from the 1st chair of the normal symphony orchestra. I readily accepted, and found him to be not only a much better musician, but a much better instructor who strived for the same level of perfection as I did. Moral of the story? I don't really have one, just thought since you were out a job you'd have time to waste

	02-12-2003 00:52									#84
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Actually Japher (sorry I never noticed that quote), that quote is actually very poignant in this situation. You see, I have been rejected for my 'perfectionism'...seems contradictory doesn't it, but poor mortals feel threatened by it

	02-12-2003 20:18									#85
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Employers do not like unfair dismissal claims. It is pretty well routine for the complainant to allege that the dismissal was grounded on sex discrimination or race discrimination because, apart from removing the 12 months continuous employment limitation, it also removes a financial limit on the compensation which can be awarded.

Whether the employer is going to win or not he will certainly incur substantial legal costs. Plus the demands of the defence (providing lawyers with instructions, attending the hearing) chew up unconscionable amounts of managerial time. And it feels like washing dirty linen in public.

Whether it is wise to get into such things, though, is another matter. Whether it results in some cash or not.

If you find a new job and settle well into it this will start to seem just an episode.

If, on the other hand, you brood on it and make it the focus of a lot of activity that may distract you from the task of finding a new job and deepen rather than dissipate the bitterness which you understandable feel at present.

There would be no harm at all in going to see a solicitor. Ask whether they will take the case on a no win no fee basis. But meanwhile put just as much effort into job hunting.

And put the most energy into having some fun.

	02-12-2003 20:29									#86
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Tell them you were fired because you rejected the pass your trainer made at you.

	02-12-2003 21:03									#87
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quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara Tell them you were fired because you rejected the pass your trainer made at you.

It is England after all.

One thing occurs to me, did your job entail dealing with union workers (i.e. getting samples, halting production if something was 'not right', shipping) ?

	02-12-2003 21:10									#88
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Edit:
Well replied below, and retracted with apology here.

Last edited by Lefty Scaevola on 03-12-2003 at 05:36

	02-12-2003 21:37									#89
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I have had good workers that just weren't compatible with the group that I've let go. That's what probationary periods are for. It does sound like this is a bit different but you never know.
Good luck. And I agree with Oerdin, if the period of time has been that short, just leave it off you resume. Unless the company goes out of it's way to blackball you, it shouldn't be a problem.

	03-12-2003 04:19									#90
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quote: Originally posted by Lefty Scaevola You had/have little success with romatic relationships. You left college because of you thought you were being screwed over by your professors & administration. Did not you get bumped out of a previous job? Many of your friends only really like you when they are drunk. You are now removed from a job being accused of being a social misfit. It all bring to mind Despair Inc's poster for" "DISFUNCTION: The only consistant feature of your dissatisfying relationships is YOU." Perhaps some introspection and 'heal thyself' is in order.

Interesting, but the problem on my half has been self-loathing rather than loathing from others. Now you seem to have failed to grasp the situation - I have had an unfortunate sequence of events that I cannot attribute to anything other than pure misfortune.

Now the Ph.D. My problem there was facilities and supervision. My original supervisor left early in my Ph.D and I never got the supervision I needed, and thus, I kind of got lost and never received any facilities. You are forgetting that I resigned from my Ph.D. Between me and academic medicine, there is no bad atmosphere. I still assist if they are having a trial (as a volunteer) and so on, and have a friendly talk and laugh with everyone when I am there. There is no animosity between me and that department, it just didn't work out. Also bear in mind that they have a track record here - another Ph.D student departed shortly after me, and I know for a fact that another one was looking for another job and had registered grievances with the postgraduate research institute. So again, you are reading things into a situation which just weren't there.

Ah, now my following job at Reckitt Benckiser. I wasn't forced out, I departed that job to leave for this one. I was underpaid and overworked, but apart from that, I was respected and well liked. The complaints I had about the company were the same as anyone else has had. And the fact that after a year I was never offered a permanent position because it was financially more convenient for them to keep me ongoing.

Oddly enough, I don't drink a great deal, so very few of my encounters with friends are when any party is drunk. A couple of pints are quite nice to relax, but believe me, I don't need it.

Now this present situation is completely different. Up to the 48 hours before my dismissal they were in complete praise of my ability - just some slight concern about me not fitting in, but it is hardly like I am going to have strong interpersonal relationships with everyone in the course of a month is it? Then in the period of 48 hours, I was verbally and emotionally abused and degraded, then reassured that there is no threat to my position some 24 hours before I was dismissed. Now with all due respect Lefty, you don't know what the f**k you are talking about, and keep on with this kind of attack and you will find the precious little respect you have gained evaporating. There are people here who know me and my person. But again, you are probably another example of a 'cog in the system' which have caused me so many problems and treat me as a complete outsider.

And besides, I have another interview on the 10th December and this job is in Manchester so I will be able to get out of this area if it works out