11-12-2003 16:59									#151
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quote: Originally posted by Provost Harrison When will there ever be a level playing field?

Not as long as decisions are made by human beings with their irrational prejudices and petty likes and dislikes.

I have had three jobs in the last 16 years but done less than a dozen interviews. Over the same period my SO has done at least 200 interviews and got nowhere, to the point she has stopped applying whilst we try and figure out an alternative. There simply isn't a rational explanation for it.

Rich - when the day comes that you are sitting on the other side of the table don't forget how you feel now. Don't take pity on the candidates, it is necessary to choose the one you think will work out best, but allow for how they are feeling sat in that chair since you know what it's like.

	11-12-2003 20:23									#152
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this just in: "the spotty brat" got the job...

	11-12-2003 20:24									#153
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ah, it was already posted...

	11-12-2003 20:25									#154
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I doubt that day will ever come. I just seem to be getting nowhere. No matter what I do, I will always be f*cked over. Years and years and years of soul searching, improvement, education. For nothing. Is this as good as it gets? As I said, I think death would be easier. I try and get back up, but someone always kicks you down.

Is this how we reward talent in modern society?

	11-12-2003 20:27									#155
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I am returning to my previous job on Monday. Now that is good in itself, but in other ways I feel humiliated. Everyone was cheering me - Rich's big chance at last to get what he deserves. And once more I have fallen flat on my face. What gives?

	11-12-2003 21:22									#156
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Rich...

You seem to have the attitude in all this that you are the victim of some grand conspiracy by people to screw your life up. I think that's unlikely.

You are always saying that you are more intelligent, socially better blah, blah, blah and you can't understand why you didn't get the job.

Perhaps some of your assumptions are wrong?

One thing straight of the mark, if you are giving people the impression that you think you are better than them (more intelligent, productive, better educated) etc. then they will react badly to it.

On the other hand, there is also the possibility that no-one seems to have mentioned that there are some (possibly subconcious) elements of racism at work here. Not that that would be easy to find out or prove.

	11-12-2003 21:27									#157
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Racism?

	11-12-2003 21:27									#158
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You mean they're prejudiced against short people?

	11-12-2003 21:34									#159
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I just can't win Mike...all I have is some confidence in my own abilities.

	11-12-2003 21:40									#160
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Well PH is half Chinese. Something that only occurred to me after puzzling about this for a few days.

Hell, I dunno. The main thing is not to see it as an insurmountable obstacle, it's just a set back (or a series of setbacks) you'll get through it in the end. Especially if you move out of Yorkshire down to somewhere where there are actually loads of jobs in your field.

	11-12-2003 21:43									#161
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Ah!

It could be a factor then, but I think its more likely to be what others may see as his 'arrogance' bleeding through during the interviews.

	11-12-2003 21:45									#162
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Why would my assumptions be wrong? I have figured this stuff out myself, I have good qualifications and experience, especially for the position I went for yesterday. All I was was enthusiastic and interested.

No one has been able to fault my technical ability. Yesterday they said my technical ability was second to none. Novartis said my technical ability was second to none. The only reason I could have been discriminated against was because I am confident in what I do. I was not boastful or arrogant, I just tried to answer their questions and describe how I think my experience was relevent to the job. No matter what you try and claim, there is nothing that can validate this past few weeks. It makes no sense whatsoever. All I am doing is trying to make a life for myself. Is this so impossible?

	11-12-2003 21:49									#163
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I'm not half Chinese, I just happen to have very dark hair.

I have had years of struggling trying to be content with who I am. And now I am told that I shouldn't be, that I have to be undemonstrative and shy and retiring. It's like a f**king dangling carrot. You lot seem to get jobs, have a normal life. Why is it always out of my grasp?

	11-12-2003 21:51									#164
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quote: Originally posted by MikeH You seem to have the attitude in all this that you are the victim of some grand conspiracy by people to screw your life up. I think that's unlikely.

quote: Originally posted by MikeH One thing straight of the mark, if you are giving people the impression that you think you are better than them (more intelligent, productive, better educated) etc. then they will react badly to it.

Either that, or just luck of the draw. Since everybody gets bounced, you cannot expect to bag a job with a single interview. That's right, your best chance is to have multiple interviews all going at the same time. This way, you can use offers to leverage a better package, or at least to give a positive bonus to yourself.

One thing for sure though: it's much easier to find a job when you have one.

	11-12-2003 21:52									#165
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Many people see confidence as arrogance.

One thing that hasnt been mentioned is that they may feel you are over qualified i.e. you're gonna get bored and not stay with the job. So they interview you based on your resume, but when you blow the interviewer out of the water during the interview, you're finished.

Maybe you need to move south and look for a entry-level job with more challenge?

	11-12-2003 21:54									#166
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quote: Originally posted by Provost Harrison You lot seem to get jobs, have a normal life. Why is it always out of my grasp?

Who are you kidding? Last time I was jobless it was a 2 1/2 year streak. You just don't know it because I chose not to complain about those hundreds of interviews I had that all came to naught.

	11-12-2003 21:59									#167
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quote: Originally posted by Provost Harrison I have had years of struggling trying to be content with who I am. And now I am told that I shouldn't be, that I have to be undemonstrative and shy and retiring.

No-ones saying you should be shy and retiring, just make sure you're not arrogant (like if could be percieved that you have been in this thread). Self-confidence isn't the same as thinking you're superior to everyone else.

quote: Originally posted by Provost Harrison It's like a f**king dangling carrot. You lot seem to get jobs, have a normal life. Why is it always out of my grasp?

It's not. Plenty of people here have shitty jobs, or ones they don't like, or ones that don't pay what they are worth or no job etc. etc. etc.

For instance, I bet your current job's salary gives you a better standard of living in Hull than mine does in Reading. I also bet that your job is relatively fantastic considering the area you are living in. You're not working in a factory or call center or stacking shelves at a supermarket.

Hardly anyone magically gets an amazing job, it might happen occasionally but the people it happens too tend to be those super charismatic people or people who happen to know someone (friends, family etc) who give them a boost up. Most people aren't like that.

For the rest of us the only way to the top takes a lot of work, a long time and some luck along the way.

	11-12-2003 22:01									#168
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Yes, and it is possible you are overqualified.

	11-12-2003 22:04									#169
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quote: Originally posted by MikeH Yes, and it is possible you are overqualified.

Yeah, that happened to me too. Though with me they generally asked the question, "Don't you feel you are overqualified for this job?"

	11-12-2003 22:08									#170
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quote: Originally posted by Provost Harrison I was the older, far more experienced, more confident and outgoing personality with experience so relevent and the chemistry was so good that the job should have been mine. I DON'T UNDERSTAND how it went to the other fresh graduate.

That's pretty easy to figure out: $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

If they can get the job done with the cheap inexperienced guy, why pay extra for the guy with experience. Don't blame some grand conspiracy for that one.

My sister has all sorts of Accounting experience, several Master Degrees etc. etc. and no one will hire her. The problem is, they see all that experience/education and figure she'll jump ship the minute something else comes along.

	12-12-2003 01:19									#171
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I may be stating the obvious here, but have you considered asking for feedback from the interviewer to help you work on your developkment areas?

	12-12-2003 02:09									#172
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It's probably small consolation but if they chose to employ the geek they most likely wanted someone who could be kept in line easily and dumped quietly when no longer required.

	12-12-2003 02:15									#173
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Come to America we got plenty of QA positions that need to be filled, and they probably pay better too.

	12-12-2003 03:28									#174
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quote: I'm not half Chinese, I just happen to have very dark hair.

And squinty eyes.

	12-12-2003 03:43									#175
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quote: I am returning to my previous job on Monday. Now that is good in itself, but in other ways I feel humiliated. Everyone was cheering me - Rich's big chance at last to get what he deserves. And once more I have fallen flat on my face. What gives?

At least you have a job.

Not everyone who's interviewing for a position has another.

	12-12-2003 03:48									#176
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Sometimes companies want to hire the less experienced person because they are a 'blank canvas' for their training. Since they don't know anything else, they accept what they are told and don't rock the boat.

Maybe you shoouldn't emphsise your experience so much - after all, to get as far as the interview, they regard you as employable. You should show them how constructive you will be to their work environment rather than how good you are at chemistry.

	12-12-2003 05:41									#177
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quote: You lot seem to get jobs, have a normal life.

No one owes you a job, PH. I don't know what it's like in Bristol or wherever you are, but most places these days there's a recession going on (with possibility of a weak recovery), so having a job is good. Having a good job is a luxury.

So we have (so far):

Your 'arrogance' shows in the interview
They're racist
YOu're 'overqualified'
Your experience and age may cost more $$ than they want to spend
They're idiots (not to be ignored)

All I can say is keep trying. We've all been unemployed for a length in the past.

	12-12-2003 09:33									#178
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Sad to hear of your struggles PH.

I imagine it's discrimination.
If they are anything like my employers they definitely discriminate against puppy dogs like yourself.

	12-12-2003 09:37									#179
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i'm sorry provost..i'm hope you squeeze their balls till they burst..metaphorically speaking

	12-12-2003 13:57									#180
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Hey Rich!

As if that interview wasn't bad enough by itself! Theben reckons you're Bristolian now.