29-11-2003 22:17									#1
	Global Geography Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

I have started this thread to reveal a few things I have learned about the global Geography of Planet. I sugjest we keep this thread toped and add additional information as it becomes avalible, eventualy making a kind of Atlas.


First off I have constructed a cruide hand drawn map (so unfortunatly I cant post a picture). By clicking around randomly and using the Base non-recentering trick I have and will continue to roughly locate the heartlands of hidden factions and roughly outline the land masses they rest upon.

My first discover is that their is a faction located on the Large high altitude island Centered on (26,58). As you can see from the grid lines this is a compact high altitude island, the factin located their will have abundant solar energy and rocky squares but might have nut problems. I belive this is the Drone Faction because its a short trip away from the drone scout thats exploring our territory and the Drones are conducting a bit of trade with us, sugjesting they have resonable energy.

I managed to find 8 bases total on that land mass, they are. (26,58) (19,57) (28,66) (22,64) (30,56) (30,70) (40,66) (33,53). Most seem to be located along the edge and are likly Coastal Bases. Directly south of this Island their is a large aparently empty Sea with indications of a small island near the bottom of the map.

This would also mean that PEACE is just off the Eastern Shore of this Faction. If this is true and these are infact the Drones then they might be in an excelent position to start a 2 front war with PEACE. We should inquire with the Drones if this is correct and when we start the war we should send them a message saying that we encourage them to take PEACE bases and will be willing to give them inteligence in order to do so with, thus cementing an Aliance with them.

My next observation is that the Belivers must be located on the lumpy land mass East of us. Their Copter has a range of 8 so its the only place it could have come from. And what do you know their is infact a base as (82,82) adsactly 8 spaces from the Copter. Miriam is not realy in a position to do anything to our enemies as she likly lacks boats. I think that when we are done with PEACE we should look at attacking the Belivers. Their going to vendeta us soon after we go Democracy anyways so its no big loss. We can most likly clean them up easily with out tec advantage and add substantial territory to our Empire.

We now also know that University is North of us. I suspect they are on a compact group of islands conected by necks and stratis much like our own is (this seems to be a theam the map maker used). Using our Navel Power against the university seems like a definate option along with using amphibous units and transports to "walk" onto the chunk of land that contains the Ruins (a nice place to get upgrades by the way).

PEACE as we already know is spread across an Archapeligo of small sand bar islands that extend Westward from our territory. North of this Archipelago their is an empty Sea that likly marks the Edge of Pirate territory. North of this Sea their seems to be a Chain of Islands running East to West, it might actualy be one continuous land mass or as I suspect is a chain of "necks" and "straits". I do not shure if this area is inhabited or not. Aditional cliking in he Dark is required.

A large unmistakable land Mass rests near the North Pole streatches from around 80 longitude across the "Prime Meridian" to the 30 area. This large land mass contains Sunny Messa and Pholus Ridge as is obvious from the shape. Most likly this all belonges to one faction. I belive its the Hive, but it might be the Angels. In either Case the other faction is likly on the much lower elevation terrain that is seperated by a large sea that runs in an arc along the Eastern end of this land mass and above the suspected Drone Island.

Possible Uninhabited Island are located North East of Pi Squared in the area of (63,42). Controling these could prove strategic for attacking PEACE or the University and for exploring the Island Chain that lies to the west and far north. In any event we want to plant the Cycon flag their before anyone else moves in.

I encourage anyone with time to kill to do a bunch of cliking in the dark, particularly in the Northern reaches of the map. Identifying base clusters and the extent of other factions territories will be invaluable in future planning. Post any data you colectt or insights on the map here.

EDIT: SORRY! I edited this post instead of quoting it! I have restored it, but didn't realise you could edit others' posts in sub-fora apart from the Civ3 ISDG one!

Edit by Maniac: I'll make a list of all mentioned base coordinates in this thread in this first post. Handy for quick reference.

Angels?: (26,58) (19,57) (28,66) (22,64) (30,56) (30,70) (40,66) (33,53)

Believers: (82,82) (81.77)

PUT:
(78, 50) Base in middle of Ruins
(78,44) Monitoring Station
(80,38)
(78,34)
(76,30)
(73,31)
(84,30)
(82,34)
(87,33)
(76,38)
(80,30)

Suspected Drones Bases:
(3,3) (92,4) (85,7) (91,9) (80,10) (74,10) (87,13) (94,16) (92,22)

Border Bases (could belong to either, plobly a split):
(4,14) (6,18) (2,20)

Suspected Hive Bases:
(25,15) (22,16) (18,16) (14,18) (29,19) (21,11) (22,20) (17,21) (29,23) (26,26) (22,26) (18,26) (26,30) (10,18)

PEACE:
Casablanca (55,75)
Sea Lurk (54,56)
Alexandria (59,73)
Margaritaville (57,63)
Tripoli (53,69)
Calaco Island (55,43)
Pampalon (46,58)
Liar Liar (45,67)
Atlantis (42,52)
Henry Morgans Boot (40,66)
Little Accident (36,70)


Please also see the PEACE map here.

Last edited by Maniac on 05-12-2003 at 05:08

	30-11-2003 01:27									#2
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Kody, it's against the rules be to creating DLs

	30-11-2003 05:15									#3
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Wow - never thought of that!

Ace work Impaler, will try to focus some attention on the save again later on.

	30-11-2003 05:43									#4
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What dose Tass mean? Is this just mindless spam or is their something I am missing?

	30-11-2003 07:07									#5
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Great work Impaler! This will prove very handy.

Regarding your estimated location of the Drones, I think it might be the Angels instead. Way back during negotiations we had with PEACE about trading IndAut (to read about those negotiations, plough through the PEACE diplomatic exchanges thread on (I think) page 2 of this forum - you'll understand why we're going to war ), they mentioned IIRC that they were close to the Angels, or at least that they could quickly infiltrate them. In later DocFlex negotiations when I asked them why they wanted us to research and give them a military tech, they said they feared AI factions. This leads me to believe that the Angels are their neighbours, not the drones. Especially since PEACE contacted the Angels way sooner than the Drones.

Btw, have you checked out the map Drogue tried to compose of PEACE territory IIRC on the first page of the CyCon-PEACE war preparations thread? Using his map I found a few PEACE base locations. Not all though. With additional clicking in the black we might be able to fill in the holes and correct the map where Drogue was wrong. Would be very handy for the coming war.

Almost certain base locations:

(81.77), (82.82): Believer bases
(78.50): PUT base
(78.44): Monitoring Station
(57.63): PEACE base???
(59.73): Alexandria <-- first target!
(55.75): Casablanca
(53. 69): Tripoli
(45.67): Margarittaville

***

Regarding Tass' comment: Kody is a Hive member who has been doing very detailed and massive planning and information gathering for his faction. He's comparing you to him.

	30-11-2003 16:18									#6
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Nice work Impaler

	30-11-2003 16:29									#7
	Re: Global Geography Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

quote: [SIZE=1] Originally posted by Impaler[WrG] By clicking around randomly and using the Base non-recentering trick I have and will continue to roughly locate the heartlands of hidden factions and roughly outline the land masses they rest upon.

So... what is this trick and how do you use it?

	01-12-2003 00:46									#8
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Its just like I said it was.

You clik on the squares that are black and if the map dose NOT recenter on the square then their is a base their.

Use it on the know yet blacked out spot that Alexandria is on and you will see the efffect, scrole the screen so Alexandria is off center then click it, the screen dose not recenter. Click any other spot and it will.

By systematically clicking around you can find additional bases, record the cordinates and post them here. When you do find a base make note of the land shape its on and this can often give clues to finding additional bases as they usaly 3-4 spaces away and on coastlines (unless its Peace who can build anyware)

	01-12-2003 11:15									#9
	University survey Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

University Surrvy is now complete.

The university is higly compact, thier core bases are all 2-3 squares apart most likly for rapid reinforcment of ground units and defensive probe teams.

I estimate that the Whole University Island is less then the size of our own Developed land area, yet the University seems to have not even finished filling in their small island as their bases are being places so close together. Their Bases are clustered just North of Monitoring Station in a triangular shape with Monitoring Station as downward point of the Triangle. Their is amble room for expantion to the East of this group of bases and they are aparently using the "B" land mark to denote their future base sites, their are probly a half dozen such B's covering the Easter half of their land. In total they have 11 bases like we do.

(78, 50) Base in middle of Ruins
(78,44) Monitoring Stations
(80,38)
(78,34)
(76,30)
(73,31)
(84,30)
(82,34)
(87,33)
(76,38)
(80,30)

I think this all reflects a Paranoid Defensive Build up strategy, that combined with the fact the University lacks even basic offensive tecs like Aplied Physis means we have nothing to fear from them for the time being. I also plan to Ask Googlie if University is alowed to hog land marks like this as I noticed that all 64 alowable landmarks have been used and we are only using 1 non-natural Land Mark!

	02-12-2003 16:28									#10
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Update on my map: I have been spending little bits of free time here and there doing a better job on the map than I did before. I have been having small problems matching up infiltrator info about PEACE bases to unknown tiles at elevated ground as the base view doesn't show the elevation, whereas the same area from the map screen DOES show the elevation! Consequently, there is some mismatch along grid square borders due to the elevated ground distorting the diamond shape lattice, but this is minimal.

I willpost it when I am finished, hopefully before the end of the week.

	02-12-2003 22:33									#11
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I have completed the Norther Survey now, it was quite a bit easier because of theirs only one continent to search. I am fairly sertain that the Hive and Drones are SHAREING that northern continent, their Pact is to prevent either side from launching a pre-emptive attack upon the other as you would usaly do when you share a continent like this.

Bases their clearly fell into one of 2 base building paterns and Dense 2-3 space and a wide 5 space between bases. I belive the Drones are the Northern and Western low density group and the Hive is the South Eastern high density group (because this group has slightly more bases). Their is a bit of a "no mans land inbetween.

Suspected Drones Bases

(3,3) (92,4) (85,7) (91,9) (80,10) (74,10) (87,13) (94,16) (92,22)

Border Bases (could belong to either, plobly a split)

(4,14) (6,18) (2,20)

Supsected Hive Bases


(25,15) (22,16) (18,16) (14,18) (29,19) (21,11) (22,20) (17,21) (29,23) (26,26) (22,26) (18,26) (26,30) (10,18)


Their is considerable undeveloped land north and South of the dividing line that seperates the Groups, the dividing line seems to run between 2-6 degrees Longitude.

Speculations. If the Drones are ware I think they are then it would seem ilgical for them to have sailed a boat down to find us without having made contact with the University which they haven't. I suspect their Scout fell through a dimentional rift wial Pod Popping. The Drones most likly have little or no navy. With all factions accounted for its now clear that the map contains a giant empty zone North of Peace which takes up half the Northern Hemisphere. I belive this area contians at most scattered Islands like PEACE occupies. It seems our Position on the map is Quite advantagous we are in a position to strike at 3 outer major powers, PEACE, Uni and Belivers which are to our West, North and East respectivly. Hive and Drones and Angels are comparitivly more isolated.

	10-12-2003 04:57									#12
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Map finished!

Hopefully, since we will be discovering more and more terrain (and water!), I will keep adding what we know to the map I have currently. We will eventually not need this map, but for the moment, with only old infiltrator info on the PEACE bases, there is some value in piecing it all together.

This can certainly help us plan our offensives (especially with the nearly complete route to PEACE!), show us what small areas of ocean we do not know about near PEACE bases and give us an indication as to how long it could take PEACE to reinforce.

Anyway, here's the latest: 2148. I will be replacing the map each time with the latest iteration, to save on upload space.

	10-12-2003 13:20									#13
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And now we have the Hive map and one more drone coastal city too...soon we will have tho whole map explored!

	10-01-2004 17:33									#14
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Using pact data and earlier Base Cordinates I have now completed a list of all the Hives base.

Voltograd (22,20)
Central Planning (17,21)
HongHu KongHu (18,16)
RokossovkyGrad (29,23)
GooglieGrad (22,26)
OctanianBurg (21,11)
Utopia Base (10,18)
Michanopolis (18,26)
New Moscow (26,30)
VandenBurg (22,16)
Static univeristy (6,18)
Vevtopia (14,18)
Kommuniza City (26,26)
Jamski's Prison Cell (24,6)
Great Clustering (14,22)
The Hive (29,19)
Yang Base (22,30)
Jamski's Coup (25,17)

If Drouge or WIA can assemble a map of Hive territory using this info and Post it here that would be greatly apresiated, The new university information reveals a good chunk of the un-used territory to the west of the Hives Core area which is centered on Voltograd. New Moscow the source of most of their Navy and the Probe Foils which threaten the University is very far away and must pass through waters the University has explored meaning its likly to be detected.

Also I was able to figure out the tecnique Kody used to find all the bases on the Planet, He takes a unit selects and holds then drags off a "move to" line which will display the fastest route to move to any point and the # of moves needed. By dragging this line into unexplored territory you can see unexplored base, they apear as "move to Blank" so one is able to learn the bases name in additon to its location. It might also be possible to identify the outlines of land masses with this tecnique and we can use it to better plan the movment of our navy as it seems to detect fungus and instruct units to go around it.

	10-01-2004 18:37									#15
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damn...great work!

	12-01-2004 12:57									#16
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Yes indeedy Impaler. I am unable to do this until after Feb 6th, when I return home from Canberra (in Sydney for two weeks at present), but I will certainly start when I get back.

	13-02-2004 21:40									#17
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quote: Originally posted by Impaler[WrG] Voltograd (22,20) Central Planning (17,21) HongHu KongHu (18,16) RokossovkyGrad (29,23) GooglieGrad (22,26) OctanianBurg (21,11) Utopia Base (10,18) Michanopolis (18,26) New Moscow (26,30) VandenBurg (22,16) Static univeristy (6,18) Vevtopia (14,18) Kommuniza City (26,26) Jamski's Prison Cell (24,6) Great Clustering (14,22) The Hive (29,19) Yang Base (22,30) Jamski's Coup (25,17)

Some base name changes:

Central Planning->Kody's Legacy
Utopia Base->Meadopolis
Jamski's Prison Cell->Jamski's Redemption
Great Clustering->Enigma's Vengeance
The Hive->Dacolopolis
Yang base->Frankyburg
Jamski Coup->Seat of Unity
New base: Zeropolis (10.26)

	14-02-2004 00:39									#18
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Deleted by myself.

	14-02-2004 00:39									#19
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Maniac, you have remained me of my project - a map based on our knowledge of Chiron. I made as a special map so it can be upgraded easily. I planned to build it as a scenario, but due to some bugs - bases are represented by landmarks. It contains only CC and Hive teritory - but pretty precise witha ddition of PEACE and Uni (mostly complete) i placed rivers where their flow would much real one, but I did not place them where it did not. Rainfall patterns are different - but this can be since we do not know all mountains on map.
Also there is no Drone data.

By tommorow I will - delete our base/landmarks and replace them with EM and then name approxiamtely Drone bases

-finish it with Uni details

This could be usefull to us in times ahead.

	14-02-2004 00:46									#20
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And the map is here:

Intellversion0.63

	14-02-2004 00:47									#21
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Comments?

	14-02-2004 01:42									#22
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quote: Originally posted by obstructor Comments?

Yes, I look at it later when I got time (hungry now )
But great work indeed!!

	16-02-2004 23:02									#23
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Great!!!! This will probe very handy in future operations.

	17-02-2004 04:02									#24
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quote: Originally posted by Maniac Great!!!! This will probe very handy in future operations.

Why do I think that for the first time I saw an important topic unanswered by Maniac for days in row...

But yes, Obstructor, for this. Now we can fill in new info more easily (to begin with our bases )

	17-02-2004 12:51									#25
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A .mp file? What do you open that with then? When I get my laptop I will endeavour to make a .jpg map of what we know, as I did before.

Now I can get the save, all I need is help finding all the infiltration screens we have.

	17-02-2004 16:58									#26
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I believe that's intended to be opened within SMAX.

	17-02-2004 18:05									#27
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quote: Originally posted by MrWhereItsAt A .mp file? What do you open that with then? When I get my laptop I will endeavour to make a .jpg map of what we know, as I did before. Now I can get the save, all I need is help finding all the infiltration screens we have.

It's a SMAC(X) map file, you just open it the same way you open a map you created yourself.

	18-02-2004 00:54									#28
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MENTAL NOTE: must finish it tommorow.

	19-02-2004 03:13									#29
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Are you still working on it, or do you have an update?
If not, and if I find enough time, I might try to make a scenario with the map with our bases on it.

	20-02-2004 23:59									#30
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One warning - if you try to modify land (elevations) it will immediately sink all land to shelf. And I am currently occupied at the moment so I will rather try to write 3D Issue 7.0.