02-12-2003 00:15									#1
	Some questions Increase Your PM Length

I've been playing Civ2 for about half a year (now successful at deity level) and I've been reading this forum for a couple of months, but this is my first post.

1. Units on ships.

When units are stacked, I understand the strongest unit defends. Does this include sleeping units on ships? In my latest game, I lost one battle which I expected to win, and I'm thinking it must have been because of the passenger on the opponent's ship (I don't know what the passenger was, I only know there was one).

2. Colours regenerating after a civilization is destroyed.

What is the latest year when a colour will re-start? I read the answer to this a while back, but can't find it now.

3. Gifting techs.

My current game is the first one where I've gifted techs. I'm a bit cautious about doing this if my key civ is a neighbour who may be a threat. Sometimes, I've wanted to gift a tech, but can't because I'm only offered a choice of two techs to give, and the one (or two) I want to give aren't on the list. Does that mean I've waited too long to give whatever it was I wanted to give? It also seems to upset the AI when I choose the gift tech option and then don't give one because the two suggested techs are not the ones I wanted to give! Does anybody have any tips about what techs to give or what not to give in different circumstances? I have been gifting to (1) my key civ, and (2) a weak opponent who I didn't want to be destroyed by a stronger opponent to prevent him from growing strong enough to be a threat to me.

Thanks for any help!

	02-12-2003 03:21									#2
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quote: Originally posted by okosling When units are stacked, I understand the strongest unit defends. Does this include sleeping units on ships? In my latest game, I lost one battle which I expected to win, and I'm thinking it must have been because of the passenger on the opponent's ship (I don't know what the passenger was, I only know there was one). Thanks for any help!

As far as I know, sleeping units on ships are totally irrelevant for combat results.

And I've played civ for about 10 years now

	02-12-2003 04:22									#3
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quote: Originally posted by okosling I've been playing Civ2 for about half a year (now successful at deity level) and I've been reading this forum for a couple of months, but this is my first post. 2. Colours regenerating after a civilization is destroyed. What is the latest year when a colour will re-start? I read the answer to this a while back, but can't find it now. Thanks for any help!

Congratulations on your progress. There is much collective experience (if not wisdom ) represented in these fora. Be sure to check the Strategy Forum and the Great Library.

Assuming Deity level, restarts end at 1500ad. This may be helpful...
http://apolyton.net/forums/showthre...561#post2347561

Good Luck Monk

	02-12-2003 13:22									#4
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Ecthelion, thanks for that. I guess I was just unlucky losing that ship - that can happen, of course.

Bloody Monk, thanks, I did read that post at the time but had forgotten.

Any views on my third question (which is by far the most complex to answer, but the answers may be of wider interest)?

	02-12-2003 13:33									#5
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Tech gifting is only advantageous in two circumstances:

• to raise an opponents disposition in order to extract a concession from them - maps, treaty, cash etc
• to your key civ in order to reduce your own research costs

the first of these is quite common and occurs once or twice in every game you play - the second is really a rarity and only has a place in early landing games -- the preferred RAR approach to extracting tech from the AI is to ask politely with a couple of Clads backed by a dozen Crooks - for that matter I have even been known to use a lowly 30 shield Dip -- but then I'm a RAR

Hope this helps, Stu

Oh - and don't go into a tech exchange unwilling to swap so many techs that the likelyhood is that you will renegue on the deal!

	02-12-2003 14:04									#6
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Units onboard (and other strange results when your Navy is at sea):

1) Units onboard have no influence at all on the result of the battle.

2) Vet status often makes the difference (and you usually don't know whether your foe is a vet).

3) Better odds don't mean victory.

4) I am almost convinced that, when sea units are stacked, the defender is the unit on top of the stack (SlowThinker had started some testing, but I don't remember having read a conclusive post)

	02-12-2003 14:23									#7
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Thanks, SG.

I thought I was being too cautious in gifting techs, but you are saying the situations for gifting are pretty limited.

I had gifted in the following situations, in addition to what you described:

1. The Blue ones had only 2 cities and not many techs. The Yellow ones had 4 or 5 cities, more techs than the Blues but not as many as me, and were located between me and the Blues, and the Yellow and Blues were at war with each other, and both had a peace treaty with me. I figured that the Yellows might become a threat to me later, whilst the Blues couldn't possibly be any threat. I figured it would be better for me if the Yellows did not grow in strength by defeating the Blues, so I gifted some techs to the Blues to help them a bit (but not any which would help the Yellows if the Yellows won).

2. I wanted to obtain Banking by acquisition, and bypass Republic. I therefore gifted the necessary prerequisites in the hope that somebody would research Republic and then Banking. I was successful in getting Banking by trade within an acceptable time.

3. I was at war with the Greens, and wanted to get metal ships asap. I gifted techs to my key civ (Purple, located quite far from me, and I had a peace treaty with them) in the hope of speeding up research to get metal ships.

These reasons for tech gifting are not on SG's list, but I thought they made sense? Any comments from anybody else?

	02-12-2003 14:36									#8
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Unlike when you trade techs with the AI, and get a choice of everything they know, when you are gifted a tech then you get what they want to give you (like when you use a dip to steal techs, rather than a spy - you have no choice). Likewise, when you offer to gift them a tech then you'll only get the option of giving them their two most demanded techs. I'm not sure whether you take a reputation hit if you offer them their second choice rather than the first, but if you say "Fancy one of my spare techs?" and then go "In fact, you can't have Advanced Flight, and you're not getting Mobile Warfare either", then they aren't going to take too kindly to you.
Therefore it is only sensible to gift techs when you aren't too concerned about what they get, or when you're OCCing and the benefits are far greater than the costs. This means gifting techs early in the game to see AI maps, but then once you know where they are, you have no need to be nice to them for the rest of the game and shouldn't need to gift. If you want to maintain an alliance then you may have to givew them a tech that they're demanding, but if you're in the position where they can bully you for techs then you're in more trouble than the loss of a tech is going to cause. There is a list here somewhere of which techs the AI will want (depends upon each civ's "personality"), but I can't remember it now. Suffice to say, they all want Advanced Flight, and you'll end up in all kinds of trouble if you give it away. You can go from a walkover into a far more difficult proposition. Oh, and when playing OCC, try to avoid giving away Fusion Power.

	02-12-2003 15:25									#9
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okosling,

your (1) is IMHO more about role playing than Civ playing - but if it works for you - go for it; (2) is an example of my first point; and (3) is completely valid, just pretty rare in my games... I'm guessing that you are a perfectionist that builds up a small powerful empire for 3000 years or so and then chooses whether to go for the stars or 'unleash hell' -- there is rarely such a decision point in my games

As Duke o York remarks - strategies are VERY different in OCC and other specialist games.

By the way - congratulations - newbie to Deity in six months is pretty good.

Stu

	02-12-2003 16:03									#10
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I would like to add a notes about tech trading...

Civ2 stores a counter (discovered by ST) of how many techs a civ has. The difference of this counter in the human civ and the AI's civ often is one of the biggest factor for a enemy AI to be very aggresive. Gifting tech raise the tech counter of others civs, increasing the "power" as other AI's eyes: an AI with many tech is seen as a powerful AI to other AI's, I believe.