02-12-2003 10:10									#1
	Should curragh's carry a unit? Put an end to popups!

I think curragh's should be able to carry a unit. Islands were settled in the Aegean long before the advent of triereme's.

	02-12-2003 10:59									#2
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Maybe so, but they do not allow it in the game, so as to effect game play. Nothing to do with reality.

	02-12-2003 11:12									#3
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Heh, you called it a trireme. Now there's a flashback...

	02-12-2003 11:18									#4
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Not a bad suggestion, and one propsed for the AU mod in the Strat forum. Curraghs and Galleys are IMO for short-trip exploration (as in not suiciding for long distnace contacts) and settlement over the same range. Thus having a unit on Curraghs would be a fine thing.

	02-12-2003 11:39									#5
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That would be a bad idea having Curragh's with 1 transport capacity. It would only speed up the time for expansion and exploration, and that happens too fast as is.

	02-12-2003 11:41									#6
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The Mesopotamian conquests has the Curragh with a transport of 1. I think it should depend on the map size. A smaller map wouldn't necessarily need the transport.

	02-12-2003 12:05									#7
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if you give them a transport of 1, make them "wheeled" and make sea/ocean impassible to wheeled. they'd only be able to colonize islands connected by "coastal" squares.

	02-12-2003 12:22									#8
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The curraghs are meant to be naval scouts. No need for them to carry units in the epic game, at least for this low price.

	02-12-2003 14:54									#9
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especially not until they address the issue of the ai not using them.

	02-12-2003 15:13									#10
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The AI would use them if they have the transport capability. As it is they are 'power' units only to be used for attacking.

	02-12-2003 15:33									#11
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Curraghs as they stand shouldn't be made even more useful by giving them this capacity. If you want transport capacity research MM.

	02-12-2003 20:47									#12
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Even more useful!?! As it is, they're nothing more than glorified water scouts. The purpose of ships has always been transportation or ships to attack the transports. There's no point in having a warship before you have something to sink.

I wonder if barbarians should have curraghs instead of galleys.

	02-12-2003 21:29									#13
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I tend to play continent or archipelago maps and curraghs are a real boost to human exploration - very important with communications and map trading pushed on into the medieval. I am usually finding myself playing tech broker for most of the ancient era before the AI's get round to galleys and making their own contacts. IMO curraghs are a major boost to the human player as it is without any further improvement.

	02-12-2003 22:54									#14
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quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara Even more useful!?! As it is, they're nothing more than glorified water scouts.

I think you need to use them better.

	02-12-2003 23:24									#15
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It would be useful to have them transport at least 1 unit. That way, you could pop the 'goody huts' that you find with your curraghs. As it is, you can find the huts, but they are essentially useless.

I think I will add this in my next mod.

	03-12-2003 00:51									#16
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quote: Originally posted by steven8r It would be useful to have them transport at least 1 unit. That way, you could pop the 'goody huts' that you find with your curraghs. As it is, you can find the huts, but they are essentially useless. I think I will add this in my next mod.

You might consider flagging them to only carry foot units so they can't load settlers in that case.

	03-12-2003 03:23									#17
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They should be able to be loaded with settlers. Crete wasn't settled by people on galleys and neither were the Pacific Islands.

	03-12-2003 03:25									#18
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quote: Originally posted by DrSpike I think you need to use them better.

Let's see a two move, can't carry anything, can't even pop a goodie hut . . . you're right, they aren't as good as scouts. They're worse.

	03-12-2003 04:53									#19
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quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara They should be able to be loaded with settlers. Crete wasn't settled by people on galleys and neither were the Pacific Islands.

this is true. they came from goody huts, which is why, as we've already established, curraghs have to carry *something*

i find the idea of a curragh that can only transport foot units, and isn't capable of leaving coastal areas, intriguing. i may have to try it out.

	03-12-2003 05:00									#20
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I would welcome the little boats carrying a single unit, including settlers if...

It would make the AI use them. From what Aeson said, they will use them when they have more units than they know what to do with (Sid level). Maybe adding transport capacity of 1 would make the AI use them at levels around Emperor.

	03-12-2003 05:04									#21
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quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara Let's see a two move, can't carry anything, can't even pop a goodie hut . . . you're right, they aren't as good as scouts. They're worse.

che, have you ever heard of suiciding? With communication trading as it is, being able to contact people earlier is VERY powerful.

	03-12-2003 05:19									#22
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quote: Originally posted by skywalker che, have you ever heard of suiciding? With communication trading as it is, being able to contact people earlier is VERY powerful.

Hehe, you might find it hard to convince him.

	03-12-2003 05:32									#23
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Ignoring the sucide runs, there are map layouts where you can meet neighbors on your contientant faster with a Curragh than a scout.

Example: Your in SE Delaware and they are in SE Virginia. A curragh could cross the Cheakspeake Bay quickly while a scout wout have to backtrack up to Philadephia before heading south.

	03-12-2003 05:59									#24
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when a curragh moves 2 (or 3) and a warrior moves 1, then.....


if allowing passengers would make the ai more likely to use, then I think its a good change. otherwise, it just makes it easier on the human.

	03-12-2003 06:37									#25
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A quick test shows that the AI uses curraghs with transport about like they use galleys.

	03-12-2003 06:59									#26
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I just ran a couple debug games and it looked to me like the AI won't use the curraghs to transport settlers if you only let it only carry one unit. You'd have to let it carry two if you wanted to have the AI exploit it as an early settler ship. This might make it too powerful in the game.

	03-12-2003 07:55									#27
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True, the AI needs an escort for settlers. Thinking about this some more, I think a 2 slot unit is too good for one that can be gotten right away.

My tests showed that curraghs with one slot would be used to explore the coast by the AI, though. The huiman player does have an advantage though.

	03-12-2003 08:10									#28
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I never do suicide runs unless I can see the shallow water and know for sure there is land nearby my continent. It seems wasteful to kill lots of galley/curraghs to find contact. Unless you reload, but I would never reload that.

	03-12-2003 12:32									#29
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quote: Originally posted by vmxa1 Maybe so, but they do not allow it in the game, so as to effect game play. Nothing to do with reality.

I think the expansionist civ trait needs tweaking. Perhaps only expansionists can carry units on curraghs.

	03-12-2003 15:49									#30
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That could be an idea dexters.

However I see adding troop transport ability to Curraghs to be a slight compensating actor for the far better adjustment - removing the ability of Curraghs to end turn on Sea/Ocean completely.