10-12-2003 15:21									#121
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Not sure if this has been stated before but railroads need to have limited movement. I'd propose the following:
On the discovery of railroad giving tech railroads give your units 2x movement of roads. When some additional tech is researched movement on railroads would be 3x road. Maybe for another tech (very late in the game) it would go to 4x.
This would reflect the evolution of railroads through out the ages.

	11-12-2003 04:47									#122
	Remove this text

What about barbarian cities. When the game is first started, there could be 1 in the most isolated place on the map. As the game progresses the number of barbarians cities could increase. But they only appear in unsettled lands at least 30 tiles from the nearest non barbarian city.

	11-12-2003 04:49									#123
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

And what about old school barbs that could take over cities and build things? The Civ 3 way is much less cool.

How about a timer on such Barbarian Civs? If they manage to take over a city and hold it for 5-10 turns they become a full fledged Civ?

Others have had this idea before, I'm posting it because it's a good one.

	11-12-2003 09:14									#124
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Hmm.....1st of all, i wonder whether the Firaxis guys read all this fabulous ideas....
Ok......here are my recomendations

The minor things 1st, better cityview graphics. i for 1 like 2 ad mire my cities in all their glory. But wat i get in Civ3 is a few skyscrapers & houses for a megalopolis. And Firaxis should also allow ppl 2 add new graphics for new wonders.

The Bigger things: Fear & domination. I find it wierd when a 2 city Civ right at my doorstep refuses my demands. The AI should be adjusted so that these weak Civs can be "controlled" & manipulated by larger one's without losing their independence.

Crime: Currently the only crime in Civ3 is corruption. I feel that crime & corruption should be incorporated together & each city have a crime meter. Crime should only affect city income but also cost the lives of citizens, cause damage & affect citizen happiness. Crime can be controlled thru llarge military garrisons, police stations. courthouses.......( lol maybe even a new unit called the policeman! :P )

Assimilation: Cities close 2 the border of other countries should have mixed populations as it is in real life. This should be more prevalent among friendly civilizations or in a prosperous civilization is next to a weaker 1. Such migration & emigration should also cause problems 2 both sides.

Food: One thing i hate in Civ3 is that u cant transfer food between cities. Maybe they should make in civ4 that cities with roads or railroad connections should be allowed to send food among each other. This would allow cities in remote locations 2 develop better. Food should also become a tradable source of income between civs.

Well.....dats my wishes for Civ4. I know some are a little far-fetched....but hey, they're all just suggestions & i might as well have sum fun givin em

	11-12-2003 09:58									#125
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quote: Crime: Currently the only crime in Civ3 is corruption.

I tend to think this is covered by the happiness levels and trade corruption. Small towns tend to have lower levels of crime and therefor lower levels of unhappy people. Larger cities have higher uncontrolled crime and therefore a higher proportion of people unhappy. Interesting idea that Military garrison help reduce corruption as well as unhappiness, though.

	11-12-2003 11:00									#126
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Cities that actually sprawl the map as they get bigger/more infrastructure.

	11-12-2003 11:22									#127
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I haven't read through this thread.

Has anybody suggested that we dig out the list we have for Civ 3 and see how many of those ideas have they implemented, and perhaps start from there?

	12-12-2003 00:56									#128
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SupplyUnits can only move a certain distance from their source of supply before they must start pillaging or be "out of supply."

Units must be able to trace a line of supply back to their supply source or be considered "out of supply."

"Out of supply" units lose their ablity to move and lose hit points for each turn out of supply, until they die.

Partisans and explorers don't need supply.

Nationalism
Unassimilated citizens shouldn't become unruly until the nationalism advance. At that point, assimilation ceases. Increase possibility of cities rejoining original civ or revolting and brings dead civs back to life.

Minor Combat
Not all combat should immediately result in war. You should be able to attack units in your own civ without automatically starting a war.

Abstract navy
Make the navy more like air units now. Base them and send them on missions and give them ranges.

Revolutions
Don't make revolution an option. It's something that happens to you, and it's bad.

When in revolution, you can be attacked without a declaration of war. Neighbors could take cities.

Your cities can revolt and start new civs.

Maybe you have to pick a side in the revolution and make sure it wins. Your neighbers might declare war on your side or on the other side.

Last edited by chegitz guevara on 12-12-2003 at 01:05

	12-12-2003 03:14									#129
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quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara Minor Combat Not all combat should immediately result in war. You should be able to attack units in your own civ without automatically starting a war.

YES!! Declaring war should be strictly diplomatic!! Combat should be combat.

Why would you ever fight without declaring war? Disputed territory on another continent perhaps. Worth fighting for, but not warring for. Tresspassing units, of course.

Why would you ever want to declare war?
When you're at war, you don't lose face in the international arena. Take over a province without declaring war, and you are the bully and hated one.

	12-12-2003 03:28									#130
	Full PM-box? Change here!

It would be useful for taking out those pesky settlers who keep invading your claimed areas.

	12-12-2003 03:32									#131
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Mid-game starts
Not all civiliazations have lasted 6,000 years. Somce only started a little while ago, historically. Some sprang from the ashes of former empires.

Along these lines, if you get conquered, the game could play itself along quickly to see if your civ revolts and comes back to life again.

	12-12-2003 03:57									#132
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quote: Originally posted by Fosse I'd like a map that has more in common with the one from X-Com than the ones from Civ games. I don't want gratuitious 3D... but a true sphere map like that with coordinates instead of tiles.... would be a dream come true.

If there is a spherical map, I want it to be an option for map design. I don't want all maps to be spherical. Moreover, I want to be able to have both wraparound 2D maps and "flat" 2D maps.

	12-12-2003 03:57									#133
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quote: Originally posted by Torkkeli Not sure if this has been stated before but railroads need to have limited movement. I'd propose the following: On the discovery of railroad giving tech railroads give your units 2x movement of roads. When some additional tech is researched movement on railroads would be 3x road. Maybe for another tech (very late in the game) it would go to 4x. This would reflect the evolution of railroads through out the ages.

As an option, maybe. Giving railroad unlimited movement (at least as an option in the editor) is good for scenarios

	12-12-2003 04:01									#134
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quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara SupplyUnits can only move a certain distance from their source of supply before they must start pillaging or be "out of supply." Units must be able to trace a line of supply back to their supply source or be considered "out of supply." "Out of supply" units lose their ablity to move and lose hit points for each turn out of supply, until they die. Partisans and explorers don't need supply.

Two objections: bad for AI, and MM-heavy.

quote: Nationalism Unassimilated citizens shouldn't become unruly until the nationalism advance. At that point, assimilation ceases. Increase possibility of cities rejoining original civ or revolting and brings dead civs back to life.

No way. Revolts happened all the time before Nationalism. Look at the Romans in Israel.

quote: Minor Combat Not all combat should immediately result in war. You should be able to attack units in your own civ without automatically starting a war.

It's called "hidden nationality".

quote: Abstract navy Make the navy more like air units now. Base them and send them on missions and give them ranges.

NO!

This is WAY too abstract, and it's bad for scenarios.

quote: Revolutions Don't make revolution an option. It's something that happens to you, and it's bad. When in revolution, you can be attacked without a declaration of war. Neighbors could take cities. Your cities can revolt and start new civs. Maybe you have to pick a side in the revolution and make sure it wins. Your neighbers might declare war on your side or on the other side.

A bit harsh.

	12-12-2003 04:22									#135
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quote: Originally posted by skywalker If there is a spherical map, I want it to be an option for map design. I don't want all maps to be spherical. Moreover, I want to be able to have both wraparound 2D maps and "flat" 2D maps.

Why not just have scenario maps be a section of a sphere's surface? You'll get more accurate maps, and they'll certainly feel flat.

Regarding 2d wraparound? Why? What advantages do you feel that this brings to any map that aren't trumped by spherical ones?

	12-12-2003 04:24									#136
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quote: Originally posted by skywalker As an option, maybe. Giving railroad unlimited movement (at least as an option in the editor) is good for scenarios

Okay... I think the big thing is REMOVE THE HARDCODE!



I'm very strongly against infinite movement of any kind in the standard epic game. If some scenario designers can use it, then I'll not try to deny them that.

	12-12-2003 04:29									#137
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Regarding "hidden nationality" doubling as the sort of skirmishes we're talking about.

Nah... Not the same thing. To begin with, hidden nationality is kind of silly.

Admiral: "Captain, you said you were attacked by French speaking ships off the coast of France. Where were they from?"
Capt: "Well... they weren't flying a flag, so we couldn't tell."

Okay, I know. Extreme. But hidden nationality units represent, to me, non military and "unofficial" units. Privateers certainly fit into this category. If spies come back, they should too.

To have small border skirmishes that can escalate into full blown wars though... that'd be cool. It's a new diplomatic wrinkle, requires little in resources, is easy to understand, and won't hurt anything. To me, it's a no-brainer.

skywalker, I agree that the "zone of supply" doesn't quite cut it. I wouldn't mind seeing supply enter in somehow... but that isn't it.

I think he meant that Nationalism would increase chances of revolts, not that they wouldn't be allowed beforehand. That's okay with me, but it isn't a huge deal IMO.

	12-12-2003 04:30									#138
	Increase the size of your Attachments

quote: Why not just have scenario maps be a section of a sphere's surface? You'll get more accurate maps, and they'll certainly feel flat.

What if I want to create, for example, a space scenario, though? I don't want any curvature there or a discworld scenario

quote: Regarding 2d wraparound? Why? What advantages do you feel that this brings to any map that aren't trumped by spherical ones?

A small world, for example. You may not want the severe curvature that it would have, but you do want wraparound. Plus, I just feel more comfortable with a 2D map.

	12-12-2003 04:34									#139
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quote: Regarding "hidden nationality" doubling as the sort of skirmishes we're talking about. Nah... Not the same thing. To begin with, hidden nationality is kind of silly. Admiral: "Captain, you said you were attacked by French speaking ships off the coast of France. Where were they from?" Capt: "Well... they weren't flying a flag, so we couldn't tell." Okay, I know. Extreme. But hidden nationality units represent, to me, non military and "unofficial" units. Privateers certainly fit into this category. If spies come back, they should too.

Here's a reason: diplomatic incidents. If the admiral attacked France without "proof" of France's guilt, France could just say "they're the aggressors!" Plus, repeated attacks by Hidden Nationality units actually do decrease the AI's whatchacallit (it isn't reputation, it's the gracious-polite-etc thing) of you. Enough, and they'll go to war.

	12-12-2003 04:40									#140
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quote: Originally posted by skywalker What if I want to create, for example, a space scenario, though? I don't want any curvature there or a discworld scenario

Oh, come now! Don't you know that space is curved!

Seriously, I get what you mean. I'd rather see, though, the game designed to be the best Civlization game possible, not the best vehicle for space mods.
But you could always have a section of an ENORMOUS sphere for your discworld!

quote: A small world, for example. You may not want the severe curvature that it would have, but you do want wraparound. Plus, I just feel more comfortable with a 2D map.

True about the severe curvature. I'd like to see the smallest maps be closer in scale to standard of Civ 3 though, which I feel fits well with the sphereical world's possiblities.

The tiniest maps are something I'm willing to see sacrificed for a great spherical map! I feel its advantages outweigh its drawbacks signifigantly.


And regarding the comfort level of 2d maps... it's time to move on! Break your comfort boundaries!

	12-12-2003 05:12									#141
	Increase Your PM Length

quote: [SIZE=1] Originally posted by skywalker Plus, repeated attacks by Hidden Nationality units actually do decrease the AI's whatchacallit (it isn't reputation, it's the gracious-polite-etc thing) of you. Enough, and they'll go to war.

So you're saying I should mod the game so all units have hidden nationality now? That would suck and be like hitting a flat with a sledgehammer.

	12-12-2003 05:16									#142
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quote: Originally posted by skywalker quote: [SIZE=1] Originally posted by chegitz guevara [q]Nationalism Unassimilated citizens shouldn't become unruly until the nationalism advance. At that point, assimilation ceases. Increase possibility of cities rejoining original civ or revolting and brings dead civs back to life. No way. Revolts happened all the time before Nationalism. Look at the Romans in Israel.

Nationalist revolts in the ancient and medieval eras were quite rare. Most folks didn't care what language the rulers spoke as long as the taxes weren't high and they left local tradiations and religions alone.

quote: quote: Minor Combat Not all combat should immediately result in war. You should be able to attack units in your own civ without automatically starting a war. It's called "hidden nationality".

Not a viable option for what I'm talknig about.

quote: quote: Abstract navy Make the navy more like air units now. Base them and send them on missions and give them ranges. NO! This is WAY too abstract, and it's bad for scenarios.

The current way the navies are used is ridiculous.

quote: quote: Revolutions Don't make revolution an option. It's something that happens to you, and it's bad. When in revolution, you can be attacked without a declaration of war. Neighbors could take cities. Your cities can revolt and start new civs. Maybe you have to pick a side in the revolution and make sure it wins. Your neighbers might declare war on your side or on the other side. A bit harsh.

Revolutions are harsh.

	12-12-2003 05:19									#143
	Inflate your Upload Space

My Civ4 would have a space layer, and have a tile stand for one square kilometer. However, it would solve the memory storage problem by storing terrain as a huge 3D model. Anyway, the Civ4 I'd like to see would have cities that would spread over time to cover multiple tiles. In addition, I would like hexes instead of tiles. Also, an Alpha Centauri style terrain system woud be very nice.

	12-12-2003 05:26									#144
	Full PM-box? Change here!

Also, add a tactical component: whenever two units or groups of units clash, you can either resolve it automatically, or go into Battle View (AoE like) and direct your units in combat personally.

	12-12-2003 18:54									#145
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

I really liked the ability in Civ3 to change production and the like from the main map

Jon Miller

	12-12-2003 20:27									#146
	Get a bigger avatar today!

you mean change what each city making>?> right clicking each city does that... that simple enough......

	12-12-2003 22:02									#147
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yes

civ3 had it

civ2 had it

I Am asking for a return

Jon Miller

	12-12-2003 22:50									#148
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or jut askign for a +1

	15-12-2003 07:22									#149
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Hmmm - this will require some thought. I like the early comments about the combat system from CtP.

But I think the first thing I would ask for is that Asmodean's avatar be one of the leader heads.

	15-12-2003 08:34									#150
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And Skanky Burns' and Dissident's