09-12-2003 00:43									#1
	Bush gives the Left a huge christmas gift Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Bush just signed the Medicare reform bill. Will the Left be happy? Bush has just created a 400 billion dollar new government entitlement program. The Left should be really happy, they got a great Christmas gift this year!

	09-12-2003 00:45									#2
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Naw, the left is saying that the entitlement on this one is reserved for insurance companies and drug manufacturers.

	09-12-2003 00:47									#3
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Damn -- thought this was going to be about Bush's resigning.

	09-12-2003 00:54									#4
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nah. your healthcare still is flawed and unefficient. seriously.

	09-12-2003 01:06									#5
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quote: Originally posted by rah Naw, the left is saying that the entitlement on this one is reserved for insurance companies and drug manufacturers.

That's what I don't get. The Left gets this huge government entitlement program. They should love that!Seniors won't have to choose between dog food and their prescription drugs anymore. LOL. The Left who claims to care about seniors should really be happy about that. And yet they still whine and complain.

	09-12-2003 01:08									#6
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quote: Originally posted by rah Naw, the left is saying that the entitlement on this one is reserved for insurance companies and drug manufacturers.

Generally, entitlement programs are good for business. As long as your business benefits from the entitlements and someone else pays the taxes you love the entitlements.

	09-12-2003 01:13									#7
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quote: Originally posted by The diplomat The Left who claims to care about seniors should really be happy about that. And yet they still whine and complain.

Why do you say it's the Left who is complaining? It seems to me that the people who are complaining are just people who don't want to see more spending. Just because the politicians support this I don't think the public in general does. The politicians just want to please the seniors.

	09-12-2003 01:51									#8
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quote: Why do you say it's the Left who is complaining?

Because the biggest complainers about this bill are those running in the Democratic primary.

	09-12-2003 01:54									#9
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Why should "liberals" or "the Left" be happy about a $400 billion dollar give-away to corporations?

When TRUE conservatives and liberals alike hate a bill, you know it's bad.

The real trick is, the media lauds this bill as a "SUCCESS" "A VICTORY FOR BUSH" "MEDICARE REFORM"... and all the dopes buy their bullshit.

	09-12-2003 01:55									#10
	Re: Bush gives the Left a huge christmas gift Got spare money?

quote: Originally posted by The diplomat Bush just signed the Medicare reform bill. Will the Left be happy? Bush has just created a 400 billion dollar new government entitlement program. The Left should be really happy, they got a great Christmas gift this year!

Boo! Cut spending instead of acting like pigs and gorging yourselves on my money!

	09-12-2003 02:04									#11
	Tired of ads?

The left seems to be complaining that the plan is not sufficient even though it is going to cost 400 billion over the next 10 years. The right is complaining that the plan is going to cost a lot more in the future and is ruinous to our economy. Seniors appear to be happy that they got something even if it is not 100% coverage which is implied in the Democrat complaints. I can only wonder how much I Democrat plan would cost if they got everything they wanted in the new bill.

I recall some conversation by leading Democrats also that the new bill is ineffective in that it does not have price controls. A major problem with placing price controls on what Medicare can purchase is that this effectively excludes from prescription care coverage more expensive drugs which seniors desperately need. I think the Democrats are way off base if this is their major complaint.

	09-12-2003 02:05									#12
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The bill sucks. It gives a limited benefits across the board with no income test. Rich people do not need the government to assist them with their prescription drug costs. Also, there is a premium payment of roughly $400/year.

The benefit also has a "coverage gap" that starts at $2850 (the covered person must pay 100% of costs above $2250 up to $5100) and increases every year.

What seniors need is assistance that is better targeted by income level and has a set copay. This crap plan (which conveniently kicks in well after the 2004 elections) is just a campaign gimmic for the Republicans. I seriously hope it backfires, is repealed, and we can get some real work done on healthcare for those who NEED it.

	09-12-2003 02:12									#13
	Tired of ads?

quote: When TRUE conservatives and liberals alike hate a bill, you know it's

...a nice compromise.

	09-12-2003 02:42									#14
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Actually, I can chalk this up as the second thing that President Bush has done right the past four years.

The first one was invading Afghanistan.

	09-12-2003 02:46									#15
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quote: This crap plan (which conveniently kicks in well after the 2004 elections) is just a campaign gimmic for the Republicans.

Funny, because it was the Republicans who wanted an income cap (ie, you make more than x and you don't get the benefit), but the Democrats deep sixed that.

	09-12-2003 02:48									#16
	Got spare money?

Imran, you're choosing the wrong things that we would rather you remember.

	09-12-2003 02:50									#17
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quote: Imran, you're choosing the wrong things that we would rather you remember.

Democrat brainwashing 'treatments' aren't working so well anymore .

	09-12-2003 02:50									#18
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DAMN

	09-12-2003 02:53									#19
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so what's the gist of this bill? Am I going to have more money coming out of my paycheck or what? If there is going to be more money out of my paycheck, I will start my plan to overthrow the U.S. goverment.

	09-12-2003 03:29									#20
	Full PM-box? Change here!

Here's what I see going on...

Dubya - we need to cut taxes, again, and again... ok. Now we need to spend a crapload more than we already were. Nope that's still not enough. Let's invade Iraq, that should cost upwards of $100 billion per year. Hmm, we should spend more. A $400 billion dollar healthcare bill, great! Deficit spending is working... wheeee, la la la, look the money comes from nowhere. Screw our children, lets borrow more now.

	09-12-2003 03:40									#21
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

quote: Bush just signed the Medicare reform bill. Will the Left be happy? Bush has just created a 400 billion dollar new government entitlement program. The Left should be really happy, they got a great Christmas gift this year!

It's poor compensation for the much larger entitlement program for powerful biotech corporations called intellectual property.

	09-12-2003 03:48									#22
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quote: Originally posted by Ramo It's poor compensation for the much larger entitlement program for powerful biotech corporations called intellectual property.

Ramo, now I am sure you know that patents are in the US Constitution? Patents are not some Republican giveaway to the drug companies.

	09-12-2003 03:52									#23
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Stui, assume what you say is true. How much more would it cost to give seniors the adequate coverage you want?

	09-12-2003 03:55									#24
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Sure they are. And in the Constitution, patents are enumerated as a privilege that the state offers businesses, not a right.

	09-12-2003 04:02									#25
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What I had in mind would cost much less. Contract out the IP to businesses who are willing to produce low cost prescription drugs.

	09-12-2003 04:04									#26
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

The power Congress has is to grant patents to Inventors, not businesses. You seem to imply that Congress should not grant patents at all - or at least not to inventors of new medicines.

	09-12-2003 04:06									#27
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quote: Originally posted by Ramo What I had in mind would cost much less. Contract out the IP to businesses who are willing to produce low cost prescription drugs.

Compulsory licensing is essentially a denial of exclusive rights and is not a power that Congress has.

	09-12-2003 04:07									#28
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quote: Originally posted by Ned 400 billion over the next 10 years

Don't you spend that on your military every year?

	09-12-2003 04:09									#29
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quote: Originally posted by KrazyHorse Don't you spend that on your military every year?

more than that I bet...

	09-12-2003 04:12									#30
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quote: The power Congress has is to grant patents to Inventors, not businesses.

What's the difference?

quote: You seem to imply that Congress should not grant patents at all - or at least not to inventors of new medicines. I didn't say that. [quote]Compulsory licensing is essentially a denial of exclusive rights and is not a power that Congress has.

From Article 1, Section 8, Clause 8 of the Constitution:

quote: "The Congress shall have power [...] To promote the progress of science and useful arts, by securing for limited times to authors and inventors the exclusive right to their respective writings and discoveries; [...]"