09-12-2003 06:34									#31
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

hold your horses.

don't you think it was rather nasty of lieberman to keep campaigning for the senate while gore made him his running mate?

how does that speak of confidence in your man?

don't tar gore for doing this without pointing a finger at lieberman too.

	09-12-2003 06:35									#32
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Good point, Q.

	09-12-2003 07:15									#33
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

quote: Originally posted by Boris Godunov Yeah, that he'll endorse someone whom he shares more political beliefs with. Dean is much more akin to Gore in his stances than Lieberman. Gore is probably also thinking about the trend (Dean emerging as front runner) and trying to unify the Democrats early behind one candidate to avoid the damage of a bitter primary season. The sooner a victorious candidate can emerge, the less scathed he will be. Since Lieberman already has 0% shot at getting the nomination, backing the clear front runner would make total sense in this regard. Oh, wait I forgot--all Democrats must be evil, rotten people. Why not just have bot post "Democrats suck!" instead of bothering to post, Ned?

Boris -- I'm a Democrat, but even I can see that Gore is obviously playing political games that involve some backstabbing to SOME extent?? I mean, isn't that what it basically is -- political hard dealing?

I'm not sure -- but for some reason, I can't completely agree with Gore's actions right now.

	09-12-2003 07:19									#34
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

But you're also spineless.

What backstabbing? Wherein is Gore obligated to endorse Leiberman? As Q pointed out, Leiberman's loyalty to Gore wasn't exactly inspiring.

	09-12-2003 07:21									#35
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

quote: Originally posted by Boris Godunov But you're also spineless. What backstabbing? Wherein is Gore obligated to endorse Leiberman? As Q pointed out, Leiberman's loyalty to Gore wasn't exactly inspiring.

Hard as I try, I cannot converse with Boris without receiving an uncalled for insult.

Were you born a b*tch, Boris -- or is just that the snobbery of New York has completely infiltrated your brain?

Oh, but no hard feelings, right?

	09-12-2003 07:23									#36
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

Lieberman is in the right wing of the Democratic party, while Gore and Dean are in the center the Democratic party. Why shouldn't Gore endorse Dean?

	09-12-2003 07:24									#37
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

I wonder if this will actually have any impact. I don't know if there are really any passionate "Gore Democrats" who are going to change their minds because of this. Still it will help Dean if at least some of the Democratic establishment is backing him.

A cyncial persepctive on this would be that Gore wants the Democrats to lose in 2004, so he can run for Pres in 2008.

	09-12-2003 07:24									#38
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

But you are spineless.

	09-12-2003 07:27									#39
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

quote: Dean is much more akin to Gore in his stances than Lieberman.

How can you tell? Both Dean and Gore change stances more often than they change shirts...

	09-12-2003 07:28									#40
	Increase the size of your Attachments

i still think we should reserve any sort of pity for lieberman.

politics is usually a ***-for-tat game. lieberman had the first, er, bit.

	09-12-2003 07:28									#41
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

See, MrFun can't take a joke. And then he resorts to his typical Regionist bigotry. If he isn't bashing the South, it's New York. This from someone who's from Iowa, for christ's sake!

	09-12-2003 07:30									#42
	Increase Your PM Length

quote: Originally posted by Boris Godunov See, MrFun can't take a joke. And then he resorts to his typical Regionist bigotry. If he isn't bashing the South, it's New York. This from someone who's from Iowa, for christ's sake!

If you're going to joke with a troll how about if you make it a GOOD one?

	09-12-2003 07:45									#43
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

I figured you get enough trolls in your sex life, I could spare you that here.

	09-12-2003 07:46									#44
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

psst. he's calling you spineless because you don't have a huge imperial helmet...

	09-12-2003 07:47									#45
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Discussions of my helmeted warrior are verboten.

	09-12-2003 07:51									#46
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

quote: Originally posted by Boris Godunov I figured you get enough trolls in your sex life, I could spare you that here.

I think you forgot to write: "Snap!"

	09-12-2003 08:03									#47
	Full PM-box? Change here!

quote: Originally posted by Boris Godunov I figured you get enough trolls in your sex life, I could spare you that here.

I have problems with my sex life??

	09-12-2003 08:06									#48
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

Well, not if we go by the inscriptions on the men's room wall, no.

Threadjack over, promise.

	09-12-2003 08:10									#49
	Tired of ads?

The threadjack is more interesting than Gore.



ACK!

	09-12-2003 08:31									#50
	Support Apolyton

quote: Originally posted by Boris Godunov Well, not if we go by the inscriptions on the men's room wall, no. Threadjack over, promise.

Speak for yourself on that one.

	09-12-2003 08:50									#51
	Inflate your Upload Space

quote: Originally posted by Tuberski The threadjack is more interesting than Gore. ACK!

Damning with faint praise?

	09-12-2003 09:16									#52
	Got spare money?

quote: Sava: I agree, but I think GWBs position is far easier to publicise, and that Dean will be seen as a higher tax candidate by the people. I don't give the public enough credit to be able to see the follow on effects much. And while that's true, other polls show Bush winning against every Dem nominee. It all depends on how the WoT goes, and if people get fed up of Enron style scandals and want it cleaned up. I can't see it happening, but I hope so. A lot can happen, but I think GWB has by far the easiest position to sell to the people and is the incumbent (hard to run against). I think the odds are strongly in GWBs favour

don't be so sure... MSNBC is reporting Bush's approval rating is now below 50%... 49% approve... 51% disapprove.

his days are numbered.

	09-12-2003 09:49									#53
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

quote: his days are numbered.

Yep. Only 1825 days to go.

	09-12-2003 10:19									#54
	Increase Your PM Length

quote: Originally posted by Sava don't be so sure... MSNBC is reporting Bush's approval rating is now below 50%... 49% approve... 51% disapprove. his days are numbered.

Don't be so quick to celeberate. First off, www.nationaljournal.com, which is what political insiders use, is still showing the rating at 52% approval 34% disapproval. Clinton and Reagan both had much lower approval rarting at this point of their first term then Bush does now, and yet both went on to decisive victories in their re-election campaign.

	09-12-2003 14:27									#55
	Full PM-box? Change here!

quote: Originally posted by Boris Godunov Oh, wait I forgot--all Democrats must be evil, rotten people. Why not just have bot post "Democrats suck!" instead of bothering to post, Ned?

To the extent a Democrat sticks to issues and does not simply recite mindlessly that "I hate Bush" or some such crap, I listen. Among my favorite Democrats are JFK and Governor Moonbeam, Gerry Brown. (He still is one of my favorite politicians.) But when all the candidates are simple haters of one extreme or another, how do you expect a Republican to respond? (I except Kerry and Lieberman from the hate mongering.)

The major fault is not in the Republican reaction to the vitriolic campaign being conducted by the Democrats. It is in the Democrats who think that hate mongering is acceptable politics.

	10-12-2003 20:07									#56
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

I have two questions:

1) There are number of terms limit set for a president -- but is there the same limitation for number of times someone can serve as vice-president??

2) If not, then who thinks that Al Gore would be setting his sights on being a vice-presidential candidate under Dean after the primary??

	10-12-2003 21:41									#57
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

quote: Originally posted by MrFun I have two questions: 1) There are number of terms limit set for a president -- but is there the same limitation for number of times someone can serve as vice-president?? 2) If not, then who thinks that Al Gore would be setting his sights on being a vice-presidential candidate under Dean after the primary??

1) No.

2) No, but that's really doubtful. Gore's done as a politician, and is now playing party elder. The thing about politicians is that -- with the notable exception of JQ Adams and not-so-notable exception of Richard Nixon -- they don't tend to make downward or lateral career moves, because that makes them look like losers (or more like losers, if you prefer). There's no percentage in Gore being Vice President again; he'd be a laughing stock and he'd never be taken seriously as a presidential candidate (though I think he's done with that, too; he's no Nixon). Whatever it is he wants to do with his life, he can do it more effectively by not being Veep.

No, I think Gore's trying to help the party beat Bush (and his motives there are surely personal as well a political, and who could blame him). Bush faces no primary opponents; by contrast, the Dems could have a long, bloody primary season that would only damage their eventual nominee and help Bush. The best way to avoid that is to consolidate support around a single candidate early enough -- exactly the tactic the GOP used with Bush in 2000. Of course, the Dems being the Dems, their attempt is half-hearted and half-assed.

	11-12-2003 06:50									#58
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Rufus et al., at least according to one theory propounded that Chris Matthews show last night, is that Gore is pulling the Nixon strategy of backing Goldwater during the 1964 campaign. By doing this, Nixon obtained the loyalty of the conservatives who then backed Nixon during 1968 primaries to nominate him over Rockefeller and other moderate to liberal Republicans. Nixon then won the presidential race.

By backing Dean this time, Gore obtains the loyalty of the radical, antiwar Democrat base that he hopes will support him in a second run for the presidency in 2008. Gore's likely candidate in 2008 of course is Hillary Clinton, who voted for the war, who continues to defend that vote and is sounding increasing hawkish on Iraq.

	11-12-2003 07:03									#59
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

Perhaps you are missing the point here. The Dems have failed at trying to woo middle of the road voters and the alternative strategy is to mobilize one's own base. Judging by the number of people that don't vote this is as good a strategy as any. If Nader doesn't run, and I don't think he will, Dean will pick up most of those votes.

Another advantage that Dean has is that he is an insurgent candidate. If John McCain had won the Republican nomination in 2000 I think he would have won the election handily based on his appeal to disillusioned voters.

Bush won't get any breaks this time. In 2000 he was the newcomer, which meant that Gore couldn't beat up on him without looking bad. This time he is the incumbent and that means no breaks. Dean is a fearsome orator and will tear him apart in debate.

------

Oddly enough, one of the big winners has been Al Sharpton. He's raised his own profile tenfold and has positioned himself to be the #1 African American for the foreseeable future.

	11-12-2003 07:04									#60
	Got spare money?

Anyone who saw Gore's speech on CSPAN ought to know that he's for real when it comes to Dean.