09-12-2003 04:31									#1
	Wealth or war? Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

I mentioned a while ago, and thought people were in favour at the time, of switching out of wealth, because of the -2 morale it gives us. With building our ships, I think we can't afford that. Sure, they have lax defense, but a very green impact ship against a hardened scout patrol is still asking for trouble. IMHO, we should help our cause by switching out of Wealth ASAP, as we have 2 units built next turn, and three the turn after IIRC. Having these as discaplined instead of very green will help our cause a lot, and remove must of the problems if they attack us. With very green, they could attack us with awful troops and win.

What do others think? This poll is for information gathering, but will hopefully be used by those who decide to change or not. You have 3 days, as we need to change nex turn IMHO.

	09-12-2003 09:18									#2
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I belive our navel units will be Green under Wealth. We get -1 morale and the effect of a ShipYard is cut in half for +1 and thus a unit is Green when manufactured.

In Nothing it would be 2 levels higher ofcorse but I dont think this is a major priority with our tec edge.

Peace has Disiplined units but none are upgraded or have any armor so at best they could defend at a strenght of 1.75 if their in a base with sensors as is the case in Tripoli. Vs our Impact attack of 4 to 4.5

By the time they can consolidate Sythmetal Defenders we will likly have earned some experience and will have enough ships to Artillery Bombard them to death.

	09-12-2003 19:49									#3
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

For an earlier thread: see here

the general concensus there seemed to be: to only switch out of Wealth if the infiltration data showed heavy defenses (synth garrisons) and otherwise to keep Wealth.
I've not changed my opinion and i don't think the 2 extra morale will compensate for lost income and production.

	09-12-2003 20:52									#4
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I voted wrong...
NO to switch

	09-12-2003 21:40									#5
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So its 3 NO and 1 yes.

WIA and Manic could tie it up if they both go yes but I highly doupt that they will as Manic was the one who sugjested we stay wealth. I think we will likly stay in wealth untill we enter the build up for our second War, which will likly be after a considerable Growth/assimilation phase following the PEACE war. Taking Power at that point might be a viable option but as for now Wealth is preferable to nothing.

	10-12-2003 00:59									#6
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

A question: does a unit build under wealth only get a permanent morale penalty, or are the combat advantages also cut in half forever? Or do these change back to normal levels when we would switch out of wealth?

	10-12-2003 04:48									#7
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Maniac: They never switch back. Going into Wealth lowers them, coming out only raises those built after we've come out.

Looks like we stay as we are then. Question solved

	11-12-2003 07:30									#8
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quote: Originally posted by Drogue Maniac: They never switch back. Going into Wealth lowers them, coming out only raises those built after we've come out.

So if I understand you correctly, when we attack Alexandria with an impact marine built under wealth, the bonus for attacking a base with infantry would only be 12.5% instead of 25%, even when we have switched out of wealth?

	11-12-2003 19:57									#9
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No its 25% (I belive) because thats a Chasie based bonus that has nothing to do with Morale level.

Wealth gives you -2 Morale on the social enginering table. Which translates to a -2 rating for us (no other modifiers). At -2 we have "-1 morale, Positive modifiers halfed"

That means all our units get -1 to the base moral (so they would be Very Green, rather then Green) AND all of our +2 morale base facilites (Comand Center, Navel Yard, Bioenhancment Center ect ect) operate at half their normal effectivness and bestow only +1 to a Unit that we build. This is what "half positive modifiers" means.

So the Amphibus Rover built next turn will have a moral of Very Green if I am correct. Our Marines are Disiplined as our are Probe Teams. When the Marines attack the 25% offence and 25% defences will cancel out and as I belive Alexandria has at best a Displined Unit we will have a 4-1 advantage. The Rover would be disadvantaged though in that it will have lower morale and it lacks the 25% offence to cancels the bases defence. Still its an option as at best Alexandria defends at ~1.5 and we attack at ~3.5.

We could also bombard the Base if their are multiple defenders, but so far I like Manics Idea to attack and capture with the Rover.

	13-12-2003 20:32									#10
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

Impaler is right. There is still the 25% bonus, but our troops are worse because of it.

If you are scared about winning the war, why are we still producing very green troops? Surely we need green or discaplined to help? Why put it in jeapody, if you're already scared about our military power against PEACE?

	13-12-2003 21:55									#11
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Because I believe that with the faster production and extra credits we gain by going Wealth we can hurry, build and support more units than those we could possibly lose by having a weaker morale. If PEACE would gain better weapons and armour high morale becomes indeed more important though, as then the risk of losing units due to low morale increases.

	13-12-2003 22:48									#12
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Ok. I do get that. Let's see what happens.

	16-12-2003 22:22									#13
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This is probably pointing out the obvious, but we just need all the production and economy available to keep up with Peace's production.
If we would switch to survival (seems out of the question now) they would even have a greater economy advantage and could just overwhelm our units

	17-12-2003 04:50									#14
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If/once they get producing, yes. I think they won't get much of a chance personally, and will have to cripple their production (cashing in crawlers) in order to get a semblance of a counter attack together. But then I have been branded as somewhat rash on this issue