 |
| |
|
|
Mountain Sage
|
|
Welcome back, my friends, to the civ that never ends…
Today, let’s start with one of the new civs: The Netherlands (seafaring and agricultural).
Standard map, 4 billions, temperate, archipelago.
Our fellow civs will be Sumeria, the Hittites, Portugal, Byzantium, the Inca, the Mayans and Rome.
The starting point looks to be a good one… let’s the game begin.
P.S.
The ‘corruption bug’ is quite annoying, especially if you want to expand a bit. You’ll have 6-8 cities with a good productivity and the rest are all 25-shield nominal, 1-shileld effectively. Then you have the diffult choice of building a marketplace in 100 turns, a courthouse in 80, a cathedral in 240 etc. etc.
Ah well, let’s stop complaining and enjoy all these new civs…
 Attachment: w, 4000 bc.sav
This has been downloaded 67 time(s).
|
|
| |
|
|
|
Mountain Sage
|
|
The starting point:
 Attachment: d-4000bc.jpg
This has been downloaded 940 time(s).
|
|
| |
|
|
|
David Murray
|
|
When I download this, I get a file without an extension called
w,
Is that right???
|
|
| |
|
|
|
David Murray
|
|
Not only is the start location amazing, but most of the surrounding scenery is gorgeous too. NO JUNGLES or volcanoes!
4000BC: moved settler one square south
3950: Amsterdam founded, research warrior code 90%, 10% luxs.
3500: two warriors built to deal with possible barbarians from hut
3450: culture expands - surprise surprise, unveils barbarians! Luckily I kill two and the other the next turn (but it could have been disastrous)
3250: Amsterdam growing exponentially - have to use an entertainer for now
3050: research bronze working
2900: Rotterdam founded
2850: meet Sumeria.
2800: 2nd settler built. Starting to build granary in Amsterdam
2550: Bronze working researched. Now onto masonry 40% luxs 30%. Met Portugal.
2510: Founded the Hague on Ivory
1990: Utrecht founded.
1870: Researching mathematics.
1650: Founded Groningen.
1400: Founded Arhem.
1200: Researched maths, onto currency.
1050: Declared war on Sumeria! (6 archers, 2 spearmen)
1000: Stroke of good luck, Ur completes pyramids as my troops land next door. Take Ur complete with freshly built pyramids. Life's a *****! 
900: Defeated at Lagash. Made peace for only iron working, mysticism, and one gold. 
A source of iron lies in my borders.
Future plan: start building Zeus thing for cavalry, hook up iron, finish off Sumeria in the mean time with another round or two of archers.
Am I doing okay? I have to admit I'm not the best player and this is a really easy game with the terrain ... better players will no doubt have done much better by now.
PS yes, I did eventually cave in and buy Conquests ....
Attachment: william of the dutch, 900 bc.sav
This has been downloaded 3 time(s).
|
|
| |
|
|
|
David Murray
|
|
Mountain Sage,
You're right! But I couldn't resist moving one square south rather than build near the coast so I could get full use of the cows, shielded grasslands, etc. Thankfully I did build one decent city next to the sea so I started building curraghs, looking for new lands to settle while I polished off the Portugese.
270AD: Curraghs go into production, war declared on Portugal.
400: New lands to the south-west discovered!
440: Portugal defeated! They had some *terrible* terrain. Looks like their empire will always be the 'poor cousin' of the prosperous one I've built. At least now I own an entire continent to myself.
460: Great library built.
This game is weird. I'm researching code of laws, then republic, then map making. The research time is okay, but I'm not used to such a slow pace! The AI is so weak when it is divided like this that I almost believe it pools its research on Pangaea maps (which are a lot quicker, more brutal and more difficult).
I have the largest landmass with only 34200 square miles, so I'm guessing the other civs are in pretty bad shape ... what do you reckon I should go for? Fill up dozens of galleys (when I get them) with swordsmen and go for a domination, or an all out conquest victory?
This is one game the Vikings with their UU would have been very nice to play with. 
|
|
| |
|
|
|
David Murray
|
|
PS how am I doing so far (460AD) compared to you?
|
|
| |
|
|
|
nbarclay
|
 |
Huntsville, Alabama
Dec 1999
time: 23:32
|
|
AIs don't actually pool their research, but they are willing to give each other much better deals than they are humans on higher levels. Especially, AIs are willing to accept a bit less from each other when a fellow AI doesn't have much to offer, but they don't do that with humans. So trading of starting techs, of techs popped from huts, and of techs researched on different branches tends to be rather extensive.
(As an aside, C3C seems to make barbs from huts a lot more likely. I'm a lot more reluctant to pop them now, and some huts near both the Sumerians and me remained in place surprisingly late in this game.)
Also, even when one AI doesn't buy or trade to get a tech from another, just being in contact with civs that already have a tech reduces the research cost. With limited early contact, not only are AIs stuck researching more themselves instead of trading, but they are paying more to do so.
By the way, on Continents and Pangea maps, when AIs are at war, they can still often gain techs researched by each other through a third party. But when two civs know only each other, and they go to war, who are they supposed to trade with?
Nathan
|
|
| |
|
| |
|
|
|
Mountain Sage
|
|
Ok, let’s compare our respective achievements and playing styles.
2190BC: the northern part of the land looks quite promising: rivers and floodplains, ivory, hills and gold, wild cows and a few mountains. The southern part looks bleak, but with more ivory and forests. Of course, we are not alone…
Techs: Alphabet, Pottery, W Code, C Burial. Writing in 12 turns. Gold 167 +7/turn
Military: 3 Warriors!
Sumeria: all our techs plus Bronze W, the Wheel and Mysticism. Logical conclusion: we are at least 3 civs in our big island.
Attachment: 2190bc.jpg
This has been downloaded 816 time(s).
|
|
| |
|
|
|
Mountain Sage
|
|
1725BC: with our granary, our capitol, Erin, build a Settler. We MUST get that iron NE!
The other two towns are building barracks. Unfortunately, the military otion is in.
We are also proud to announce the creation of the Royal Dutch High Seas Commercial Fleet.
Techs: with the trading of Writing we achieved tech parity. We are now researching Philosophy in 15 turns. Gold: 173.
Military: 7 Warriors! (we ARE improving).
Attachment: 1725bc.jpg
This has been downloaded 791 time(s).
|
|
| |
|
|
|
Mountain Sage
|
|
1475BC: our commercial expedition is successful. Our valorous Curragh I is set for a fruitful future.
Attachment: 1475bc.jpg
This has been downloaded 767 time(s).
|
|
| |
|
|
|
Mountain Sage
|
|
1025BC: we have now 6 cities (Portugal 5, Sumeria 6, Rome 8) and all the ‘useful’ land is settled. Time to start our military build-up thanks to the iron.
Our Curragh discovered another civ, the Romans.
Techs: researching Construction in 30 turns at –1/turn. 360 Gold. Tech parity with Sumeria, Portugal –1, Rome –3 (good news, they are isolated).
Military: 8 Warriors, 10 Archers, 4 Spears. Almost, my prrreciousss (thanks Arrian!).
Attachment: 1025bc.jpg
This has been downloaded 759 time(s).
|
|
| |
|
|
|
Mountain Sage
|
|
590BC: we are in the middle of the 1st Dutch-Sumerian war. 3 cities have fallen to our mighty troops (+1 destroyed). Temples built in all the captured cities.
Techs: Construction in 7 turns and 445 gold. Parity with Portugal, Rome –4, parity with Bysance (our newest discovery).
Cities: Dutchland 9, Bysance 10, Rome 9, Portugal 5.
Military: 8 Warriors (not upgraded, city police), 9 Archers, 4 Spears, 9 Swords.
Attachment: 590bc.jpg
This has been downloaded 748 time(s).
|
|
| |
|
|
|
Mountain Sage
|
|
430BC: the Sumerian capitol has fallen (another city destroyed). The war ended (for now).
Techs: Currency in 18 turns. 574 Gold (+5). Parity with Sumeria and Portugal, Rome –3, Bysance +2 and the Hittites (another discovery) +2.
Military: 8 Warriors, 7 Archers, 4 Spears, 12 Swords, 1 Sword-Army. I hoped for another GL but no…
Attachment: 430bc.jpg
This has been downloaded 745 time(s).
|
|
| |
|
|
|
Mountain Sage
|
|
110AD: another great leap. Still trying to build some city improvements between military units. We got the Sumerian horses. The palace in The Hague is either a pre-build for the Cavalry of Zeus or will be the real new palace (or FP).
Techs: feudalism in 6 turns, 1033 gold at –6/turn. Sumeria +1 (Feudalism), Rome –3, Hittites –3 (isolated!), Inca –1, Maya –1, Bysance +1 (Republic) and Portugal +1 (Literature).
Attachment: 110ad.jpg
This has been downloaded 719 time(s).
|
|
| |
|
|
|
Mountain Sage
|
|
400AD: another short war. Sumeria is ejected from this island. Strategic decision to take out Portugal (at least from this island), thus our military buid-up. We will move the Palace (or FP) there.
We started to settle some other islands.
Techs: Engineering in 5 turns. 1589 Gold (+17). Parity with Sumeria and Maya, Rome –2, Hittites –1, Inca –1, Byzance +Republic and Monotheism, Portugal +Literature. Strategic decision: we are going for Economics (wih the Swiss Mercs, we don’t need Gunpowder right now).
Attachment: 400ad1.jpg
This has been downloaded 719 time(s).
|
|
| |
|
|
|
Mountain Sage
|
|
400AD: Oops! I forgot the power graph, but this is our economical situation: it shows very well the corruption bug (Ur, 7 shields, 6 lost!).
Attachment: 400ad2.jpg
This has been downloaded 713 time(s).
|
|
| |
|
|
|
nbarclay
|
|
Huntsville, Alabama
Dec 1999
time: 23:32
|
|
I wrote my first few messages while I was playing to try to provide a feel for how my thought processes work, but I haven't posted because I wanted to delay providing spoilers for a little. Starting with my first message, written in 3900 BC:
With agricultural civs, an irrigated cow is sufficient to provide enough food for a 4-turn settler pump or a 2-turn worker pump. Since this starting position has two cows, it looks like there is serious potential for two 4-turn settler pumps or a 4-turn settler pump and a 2-turn worker pump, depending on how many grasslands with shield (or other production bonus tiles) are available.
If I were sure I could get the production for a settler pump reasonably easily there, I would have moved west onto the hill and built my capital on the coast. But the chances of extra grassland with shield tiles are better inland, so I decided to move east instead. That lets me build my second city on the coast, and if the second city ends up being a worker pump instead of a second settler pump, I can live with that. (Yes, that puts my first two cities just two tiles apart, but getting off the starting blocks fast seems worth it.)
After my move, I ended up popping a hut when I built my capital. Before doing so, I set my research to Ceremonial Burial in order to ensure that if I got a tech, it would be one a little bit more valuable. I ended up getting Warrior Code from the hut.
With an agricultural civ and a grassland cow, I normally use my first five turns to build a worker and then start on a granary. That’s a bit risky in terms of what could happen if barbarians show up, but the potential payoff is enormous. (The reason for the second worker is that once the cow is irrigated, my capital will grow every four turns even without a granary, and a single non-industrious worker can’t even begin to keep up with that.)
With my city founded, I started researching Writing at 100% science. Right now it looks like the 100% science won’t do me any good, but with more and larger cities over time, my research rate should get better.
Attachment: bc 3900 starting move.jpg
This has been downloaded 681 time(s).
|
|
| |
|
|
|
nbarclay
|
|
Huntsville, Alabama
Dec 1999
time: 23:32
|
|
Dateline: The Hague, 2510 BC
My granary was finished in 3050 AD, thanks to juggling my second laborer back and forth between the second cow tile and the river forest tile until my mines were completed. (I got six food working both cows and four working a cow and a forest, so spending half the time on each balanced out.) My first settler was completed four turns later, with Rotterdam founded on the coast in 2800 BC. Another settler followed four turns after the first, followed by two workers. In 2510, as I was ready to found The Hague, a Sumerian city showed up right next door to where I planned to put it. I went ahead and stuck to my original plan, but this makes the culture race a lot more important for me.
The funny thing is that even though the Sumerians and I can see each other’s borders, we haven’t actually met yet. So far, I’ve been too busy sending settlers into locations I know are good city sites to send out any explorers.
Rotterdam only has the production potential to serve as a worker pump (once its granary is in place), but at least I won't have to worry about a worker shortage.
Attachment: bc 2510 adjacent to sumeria.jpg
This has been downloaded 678 time(s).
|
|
| |
|
|
|
Mountain Sage
|
|
Nbarclay,
Interesting. 3 players, 3 different starts...
|
|
| |
|
|
|
nbarclay
|
|
Huntsville, Alabama
Dec 1999
time: 23:32
|
|
Over the next few centuries, the Sumerians and my Dutch were the leaders in the wonder race. The Sumerians completed the Pyramids in 975 BC and the Hanging Gardens in 350 BC. My Dutch completed the Statue of Zeus in 925 BC, the Mausoleum of Mausollos in 775 BC, and the Great Wall in 590 BC. (The Great Wall was desired more just as part of the collection than for its actual effects, but denying it to the AIs was also a factor in the decision to pursue it.) Other cultural improvements were not neglected, and the Dutch had almost twice the culture of the second-place Sumerians. (I'd even used gold to rush a library and a temple in Haarlem, my east-coast city, to try to shift the balance of cultural pressure in my favor in the hope of flipping a Sumerian city or two.)
Unfortunately, just before the ADs, Gilgamesh got jealous of the magnificent Dutch culture and sent archers outside Haarlem (which was defended only by a regular warrior). In the attempt to stave off what appeared to be an impending attack, I declared war on the Portuguese and bribed the Sumerians to join me. But the Sumerian attack on Haarlem went off as scheduled in gross violation of the alliance, and suddenly, the Dutch found ourselves with an unwanted war.
The decision to bring in the Portuguese had mixed effects. On one hand, it gave the Sumerians a second front to worry about. But on the other, a lucky Portuguese warrior was able to defeat the warrior defending my silk city on the Byzantine continent.
In the tech race, I had Monotheism and Theology and was three turns away from Education, while the Sumerians had recently gotten Feudalism as their free tech entering the medieval era. Neither the Byzantines nor the Romans (the two off-continent civs I had contact with) had Mathematics yet, but the Byzantines had Monarchy which I lacked (and didn't really care about in any case).
(One other note about the Byzantines: they got in an early war with whatever civ they had shared their home continent with and destroyed its last city just as my galley reached sight of the city's cultural borders. So there was one civ in the game that I never even met!)
In military terms, the Dutch position at the start of the war was interesting. We had seven regular warriors and a conscript from a hut left over from the REXing phase, a few ancient cavalry from the Statue of Zeus, and that was it! (Well, aside from the galleys delivering settlers and workers to some new overseas posessions.) But ancient cavalry are awesome units. Gilgamesh's sending archers to attack one, two, or three at a time, usually unescorted, accomplished little more than to get them killed.
Ancient cavalry were supplemented by horsemen (thanks to a shift of cultural borders that had taken over a horse tile originally in Sumerian territory) and then by swordsmen (including upgraded warriors), and the balance of power shifted. Unfortunately, the expense of the upgrades and supporting so many units cut into Dutch research.
The screenshot below is from 30 AD, shortly after the war started. The Sumerian empire has reached its peak, and for Gilgamesh, it's all downhill from here. 
Attachment: ad 30 sumerian war.jpg
This has been downloaded 672 time(s).
|
|
| |
|
| |
All times are GMT. The time now is 05:32.
Apolyton Time is 00:32. |
top of page
|
|
|
Forum Rules:
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
|
HTML code is ON
vB code is ON
Smilies are ON
[IMG] code is ON
|
|
|
|
|
|
09-12-2003 15:18
I had to steal those two techs 
(this happened because instead of libraries and universities I built military units).
(but only 6 units on each transport 
The game will be over by then.
I 
Xtime!
|
