 |
| |
|
| |
|
|
SpencerH
|
 |
Co-Ruler of my patch of land south of Birmingham Alabama
Feb 2002
time: 23:32
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by chegitz guevara
Uh, no. Heroin, cocaine, pcp, glue, barbituates (at least almost no one does those anymore), speed, alcohol, etc. were prevalent during the 70s. Even crack is just a glorified form of freebase coke, which was around then. All we got that's new and really scary is crystal meth. E's been around forever, but it didn't start to get popular until the mid-80s. |
Bullshit
The context was the 70's. How old were you then?
H and cocaine didnt become fashionable until the 80's. Freebasing was only for the wealthy.
PCP never heard of it (in those days)
speed ............was around but not much used by teens
glue........... only for the moron kiddies
The drugs of the 70's were LSD and pot (at about 10% of the THC content of modern varieties. Hash oil in the 70's had less THC than modern west coast skunk weed)
EDIT - It came to mind that I think of the pre-disco days as the 70's. DISCO SUCKS
Last edited by SpencerH on 10-12-2003 at 07:49
|
|
| |
|
|
|
David Floyd
|
|
The bottom of a large bottle of beer
Jan 1970
time: 05:32
|
|
Sava,
quote:
ownership of property isn't a natural concept... |
Sure it is. If Grog chisels out a crude wheel, I doubt seriously that he'll just let Ug take it.
Thieven,
quote:
Why? All that happened is that they died. |
As a result of YOUR action - ie, coercion.
quote:
I'm sure you would. |
Any other response would be using emotion to determine morality. If we eradicate taxes, and one person starves to death as a partial result (although your cause and effect is off, they really starved to death because of a lack of food), that's a moral trade. No one is being coerced. No one has a right to stay alive at the expense of someone else.
Tuo,
quote:
Who pays for the maintenance of prison? |
Oh, there are a few ways to do it. You could fund the prison system using the fines of people who commit crimes, to start with. There are numerous ways, but if we're already discussing how to put Libertarianism into practice, then I can only assume that you are admitting that as a theory, Libertarianism is sound. Is this correct?
korn,
quote:
Trust me not all families work together, just look at the number of deadbeat dad's in the world, |
First of all, let's define "deadbeat dad". I assume that you mean a father who divorces his wife and doesn't pursue custody of their children, and who also decides not to help support those children.
So, what exactly is your question? Should fathers be forced to help support their children? I would tend to say that they should - having children is entering into a voluntary contract, with certain obligation. Now, I'm also very willing to listen to counterarguments - if, for example, the wife tricks her husband into having kids, he shouldn't be forced to support them. But this is also beside the point. The original point had to do with welfare. I said that in the absence of welfare, families would help each other out. Your response was, essentially, "Not all of them." Well no joke. My family certainly would, and what your family does (or whomever's family) really isn't my problem.
quote:
What happens when your family dies in an accident? |
Hopefully they had the foresight to take out life insurance policies.
quote:
Or what happens with child abuse? |
The most obvious answer is that child abusers go to prison for assault, and their children either stay with the remaining parent or stay with someone who volunteers to take care of them.
quote:
WHo pays for orphans or foster children? |
Not me, and people who volunteer to support foster children, respectively.
quote:
Here's the problem, people don't enter the world with zero debts to society. |
The word "society" gets thrown around a lot, but no one ever really defines it. As near as I can tell, all that "society" is, is a group of individuals. As to entering the world indebted to others, are you telling me that infants owe their parents something later in life? Sorry, I'd disagree - becoming a parent is voluntarily taking on certain obligation. You don't have to do it, and seeing as how the child had no choice in the matter, it is hardly fair to say that they owe the parents for making sure they were fed when they were babies.
quote:
Infants cannot provide for themselves at all, not even when it comes to eating, so these children owe a debt to their caretakers. |
And what debt might this be? A debt implies a contract, and a contract implies two parties willingly entering into an agreement. Your example fails that test.
quote:
However, their caretakers owe a debt to the forces of civilization that protects them from violence and that ensures the operation of some type of economy. |
Certainly. Libertarians are not opposed to user fees, in many cases, for things such as a police force. As to "the operation of an economy", people fulfill their "debts" by simply engaging in commerce. When you buy or sell something, you help fuel the economy.
quote:
However, I'm sure that you will make a point that families can arm themselves to ensure their own security. It's true they can, and in many cases it will work. The thing is, this forces them to devote far more resources to get equal or less protection than society could provide for them. |
Which is exactly why Libertarians provide for a police force and a judicial system.
quote:
You will say that Libertarianism isn't anarchy, because it has courts, police etc. Yet who pays for this and how? |
Various methods - court costs, user fees, fines and penalties, contributions (if the only source of funding for the police was in contributions, would you contribute something? I certainly would), etc.
quote:
What would a Libertian society provide? |
Primarily and almost solely, freedom. However, I'm answering the wrong question. The question should be phrased as such: "In a Libertarian system, what does the government provide?" and the answer is "The government provides protection from coercion and guarantees liberty."
|
|
| |
|
|
|
David Floyd
|
|
The bottom of a large bottle of beer
Jan 1970
time: 05:32
|
|
UR,
quote:
"Natural" as "exists in nature." Your example doesn't counter Sava's point. |
It counters his implied point that government/"society" is a prerequisite of property.
quote:
What's wrong with you? Stoned? Where did you think we get crude oil and coal from? What about all the minerals? We don't produce food either, it's simply grown in nature and we harvest the results. |
Try actually reading the debate. There is also a concept in the English language known is "context". I realize that English may not be your first language, but I'm sure whatever your first language is also utilizing the concept of "context" as well.
Just in case, though, allow me to explain. In this particular case, the context was "food". Che or Theben (I forget who) tried to tell me that the world produces enough food to feed everyone. I pointed out that that statement was quite false - individuals produce food. Sure, SOME food grows naturally, I'm sure - certainly not enough to fulfill the requirement of feeding everyone on the planet, of course.
If the context was oil or gold or whatever, then you might have a point, but then again I wouldn't have made the argument I did to begin with. Food is what we were talking about.
So, in summation, the three words of the day are "Context, context, and context."
|
|
| |
|
| |
|
| |
|
|
|
chegitz guevara
|
 |
Ft. Lauderdale, FL Communist Party of Apolyton
Jun 2000
time: 00:32
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by SpencerH
Bullshit
The context was the 70's. How old were you then?
H and cocaine didnt become fashionable until the 80's. Freebasing was only for the wealthy.
PCP never heard of it (in those days)
speed ............was around but not much used by teens
glue........... only for the moron kiddies
EDIT - It came to mind that I think of the pre-disco days as the 70's. DISCO SUCKS |
Since you checked yourself, I won't comment much.
Until Heroin returned with a vengence in the 90s, heroin's heyday in the U.S. was the late '60s and early '70s, when it was being sold to our soldiers in Vietnam, and back on the streets of the U.S. I'll be non-political and simply say that our active proximity to the Golden Triangle made it much easier to smuggle it back into the U.S.
I first heard about PCP in 5th or 6th grade, which puts it in the '77 to '79 range. It's always been a fringe drug, but it was still available
Speed may not have been much of a problem where you lived, but our schools seemed to think it was.
Finally, you ignored the most dangerous drug on my list, alcohol.  I got my first swig o' beer from some high school kids drinkin' near the swimming pool. They thought it was cool giving beer to a 6th grader.
|
|
| |
|
| |
|
|
|
Enigma_Nova
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by Starchild
It's depressing isn't it? I mean, was I just a late bloomer or are all kids these days alcoholic sluts?
|
Nup. In fact, I'd say that AT LEAST 2% of the adolescents I know are responsible. (Not higher than 10% though)
|
|
| |
|
|
|
Enigma_Nova
|
|
quote:
Tell you what. You tell me where your family and friends are, and I'll try to arrange having them killed as long as you never have to pay taxes again. I'm sure you'd jump at that opportunity. |
Sounds like a good choice...
Can I have the family assasination thing too, or is this offer non-universal?
|
|
| |
All times are GMT. The time now is 05:32.
Apolyton Time is 00:32. |
top of page
|
| archivepost |
|
Forum Rules:
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
|
HTML code is ON
vB code is ON
Smilies are ON
[IMG] code is ON
|
|
|
|
|
|
10-12-2003 05:17
. Kind of like a tragedy of the commons problem.
)
|