10-12-2003 00:33									#1
	DIPLO : Vox comments Put an end to popups!

That was superb, sleepy. If that doesn't wake them up into replying we'll have to invade them to get their attention.

	10-12-2003 00:35									#2
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:applause:

	10-12-2003 00:36									#3
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And, a response, in less than an hour

they are researching printing press, will have it done in a few turns. I will post the note

	10-12-2003 01:04									#4
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thanks for the compliments guys


So vox will have p. press in 12 turns. I'd say that if we can trade invention for it straight up, its a deal. AFter all, everyone else has invention, not like its a hot commodity these days. Frankly I'm suprised that lego would allow that trade.

And perhaps more importantly, it tells us that vox hasn't been working on anything more important for quite a while, I can't imagine their sci rate being very high.

	10-12-2003 04:08									#5
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Nice job of writing asleepathewheel.

	10-12-2003 04:30									#6
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quote: Originally posted by asleepathewheel And perhaps more importantly, it tells us that vox hasn't been working on anything more important for quite a while, I can't imagine their sci rate being very high.

Yeah, Lego joked to us that Vox's entire output was equivalent to one of their cities. One of their better cities, I hope.

I wonder what sort of autonomy they have to make decisions like this? The view seems to be that they can't fart without Lego signing it off first, but it could be interesting to see how they handle this.

	10-12-2003 05:10									#7
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I wonder what's going on as well with lego/vox. perhaps lego has allowed them limited autonomy. Is there any way we can see exactly what techs vox has that we don't, outside of a successful stealing? I wonder why lego hasn't given vox invention? perhaps so that the cost to us wouldn't depreciate even further, or to keep a reign on them.

Oh, one positive about vox not having invention is....the others are a few turns away from the next age. I think using PBEM rules, it would take a few turns to gift all of the techs to vox, thus triggering their free tech. I assume that lego wants that tech ASAP on arrival in the new age. Which reminds me, I need to dig up our treaty with vox, we discussed getting their future free tech as well, but I think that was abandoned.

this also tells us that no one has democracy and free artistry. (assuming they aren't lying. perhaps there is really 12 turns left on an nda or something. I could figure it out using the editor values, but I've never really done that before)

	10-12-2003 05:17									#8
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The others are only a few turns away from the next age?

	10-12-2003 05:29									#9
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quote: Originally posted by Cort Haus The others are only a few turns away from the next age?

who the hell knows, I was just throwing that out there. we know that lego had music theory in 370ad (perhaps a congrats is in order for that, in the public) hard to say how much more advanced everyone is....

	10-12-2003 06:32									#10
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What about making the trade now, before they can get it free from Lego? They gift us PP when they get it and in return for that we gft Invention now?

	10-12-2003 06:41									#11
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quote: Originally posted by vmxa1 What about making the trade now, before they can get it free from Lego? They gift us PP when they get it and in return for that we gft Invention now?

you know, that's a hell of an idea. WE don't want them to be able to go to Lego and say, "We made this deal, is that ok with you?") far better for them to be on the hook before that. I'll pm them and ask if invention for pp would be fine.

Would we be willing to go chivalry + invention? Neither one are particularly useful to them, but might sweeten the pot.

	10-12-2003 06:44									#12
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Nice idea, and worth suggesting to Vox, I'd say

If we're being cheeky enough to ask Lego for gunpowder we might as well try treating Vox as an independent state!

btw, vmxa1 - we have the save and are discussing it it in a new turn thread. We still have over 20 hours to play it - so plenty of time yet Let us know if you want this save sent to you? PM vondrack any time you want to get on the list.

	10-12-2003 06:52									#13
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Ok, I've fired off another pm, we'll see if we get a response soon. I imagine we will at least know something before next turn.

Would love to get them locked in on this

	10-12-2003 07:01									#14
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vox is discussing it, so maybe they'll know by our next turn

	10-12-2003 08:49									#15
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Ok I was just wondering how to find the save. I will PM him. It has been a long time since I heard from him.

	10-12-2003 08:52									#16
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BTW I will defer to those of you that are more in touch as to what is a worthwhile deal. I would suspect giving both is not too painful. I mean by the time they could offer any other tech Chiv would really be devalued.

	10-12-2003 19:31									#17
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Excellent work. Printing Press isn't that high on my list of desired techs, but it would be nice to have (we are religious after all, so a switch to Demo would be worthwhile for us).

-Arrian

	10-12-2003 20:13									#18
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quote: Originally posted by Arrian Excellent work. Printing Press isn't that high on my list of desired techs, but it would be nice to have (we are religious after all, so a switch to Demo would be worthwhile for us). -Arrian

no, frankly its nearly worthless to us. But I think the act of trading for it is huge. Shows that someone is willing to deal with us.

	10-12-2003 21:21									#19
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Maybe Vox will let us in the league of minor states!

	10-12-2003 21:28									#20
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Ok, so it is nearly worthless. But yeah, it will be nice to have friendly dealings with someone again.

-Arrian

	10-12-2003 23:09									#22
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That is about it, something is better than nothing. It is a tech you will need to get at some point, so getting it here for free is not a bad thing.

	14-12-2003 20:03									#23
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Please look at the proposed agreement for printing press with vox. It looks good to me, but I want others to ok it before I agree to it.

	14-12-2003 21:48									#24
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Looks good to me. The final clause means that even if Lego gave Vox Invention we'd still get PP. No resell clauses either. I don't think there's a hurry, so I guess we can afford to wait some more for people to comment.

If we go with this, should we give them Invention up-front or wait? We may gain goodwill by paying up-front - would we realistically have anything to lose?

	14-12-2003 21:52									#25
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I was thinking we should just give it to them now, its a pretty worthless tech now in the scheme of things. everyone else is at least one tech beyond invention, so Lego using vox as a research lackey down that path is wasteful.

	15-12-2003 03:43									#26
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sleepy, go ahead as ambassador and respond with agreement.

Let's wait until we have the turn, but I also would be inclined to send invention, accepted.

	15-12-2003 06:34									#27
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I'll go ahead and send a signed agreement back to Rhoth.

	24-03-2004 23:54									#28
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(BUMP)

In reply to Voxs' latest offer, I can not see any advatage of getting democracy. We can get it off Spain/whoevr they are, if needed, for a couple of obselete techs. Why not try to break the trades with Legoland, since every little bit helps.

Basically, it is a waste of time IMVHO (If I'm allowed to have one).

	25-03-2004 00:02									#29
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Spain - the Roleplay team - are useless for research. They do not have Demo now, and we would rather have them at max tax and giving us cash than pursuing research of their own.

Demo is definitely of limited value to us. But *no* value? Faster workers... true, by the time we could switch we might be done RRing our land. Slight corruption reduction... that would take a while to pay back the loss of a turn to anarchy...

Ok, so it is largely useless.

One thing: you are not only "allowed" but encouraged to have an opinion on these things. A fresh perspective on the matter will force those of us who have been in the thick of things to step back and re-examine what we're doing, and maybe we will find we're off-course.

-Arrian

	25-03-2004 00:49									#30
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Arrain, Spain has Demo, and will give it to us once the NDA runs out. They even said when, but I forgot... their the only team in demo

Oh, and I agree on opinions: we need more of them.

DeepO