10-12-2003 20:57									#61
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quote: Get over yourselves, You don't want to go to war that is your right. However, don't delude yourselves that your companies would get involved in Iraq for the good of Iraqis. European buisness operates on the same motives as all other buisnesses, their own profit.

don't delude yourself that american companies are going over for the good of the iraqis.

quote: your total refusal to go to war to liberate the Iraqis

the initial charge to war had nothing to do with 'liberation'.

	10-12-2003 20:57									#62
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Much ado about nothing. The spoils of war usually go to those who contribute.

	10-12-2003 20:58									#63
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exactly.

canada did contribute though, especially with aid. granted, they didn't really support military action, but surely that aid should count for something ?

	10-12-2003 20:59									#64
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quote: Originally posted by DinoDoc Much ado about nothing. The spoils of war usually go to those who contribute.

Only in barbaric times.

	10-12-2003 21:04									#65
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quote: Originally posted by Q Cubed exactly. canada did contribute though, especially with aid. granted, they didn't really support military action, but surely that aid should count for something ?

I dunno why they aren't the list. Maybe it has to do with not liking Quebec?

	10-12-2003 21:10									#66
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That's OK: we don't like Bush either.

	10-12-2003 21:14									#67
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I'd be surprised if they would have wanted any reconstruction contracts. You're either out or in - and those places were definitely out.

There's also the sticky point of foriegn workers needing protection - none of those countries would depend on the coalition troops to protect them.

	10-12-2003 21:22									#68
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There is no hurry in negociating construction contracts, the US Army is still demolishing buildings and houses not flatened in the first pass.

	10-12-2003 21:24									#69
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quote: Originally posted by Winston It's quite laughable that the opposition against taking out Saddam now all of a sudden want to cash in on the contracts. Well now it's too late to join the Coalition of the Billing.

It's quite laughable that the United States invaded Iraq in the first place to do the same thing -- cash in on contracts.

	10-12-2003 21:43									#70
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As an American taxpayer, I have no problem with excluding companies from non-participating countries from being prime contractors on our portion of the aid. It's our $19 billion, after all.

The Canadians can direct their own aid dollars as they wish. If they want to exclude American companies, they are free to do so.

As for France, Germany, or Russia, why any crocodile tears would be shed for them for missing out on contracts for American aid dollars is beyond me.

	10-12-2003 21:56									#71
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How much of that 20 Bil$ is going to Afghanistan?

	10-12-2003 22:11									#72
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quote: Originally posted by DanS As for France, Germany, or Russia, why any crocodile tears would be shed for them for missing out on contracts for American aid dollars is beyond me.

And even still they can contest it on the basis of false justification namely "national security". They can simply claim that:

1) The allocation of said funds to such and such countries' companies but not to others is descriminatory.

2) The reason given is false.

And go to retaliational penalties. But I doubt they'd bother. Irony has some limits.

	10-12-2003 22:25									#73
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i still don't understand why wolf said it was about security reasons.

i still see it as retaliatory, justified, but petty.

	10-12-2003 22:30									#74
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I assume it's for internal consumption.

	10-12-2003 22:46									#75
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quote: How much of that 20 Bil$ is going to Afghanistan?

$1 billion, IIRC.

	10-12-2003 22:50									#76
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quote: i still don't understand why wolf said it was about security reasons.

It's pretty simple, really. They went against us on what we stated was a big security issue. It's not in our security interest to encourage that kind of behavior.

	10-12-2003 22:52									#77
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That's hardly a discouragement either.

As I said internal consumption.

	10-12-2003 22:54									#78
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quote: Originally posted by paiktis22 2) The reason given is false.

Remember, M. Wolfowitz does not give reasons false, true, in-between or whatever, he gives bureaucratic reasons, easily acceptable by all parties (no need to be relevant or clearly connected).

	10-12-2003 22:55									#79
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Wolfowitz is very warhawkish. Hilariously enough he is as much inept in foreign relations. Maybe that's not an accident.

	10-12-2003 23:00									#80
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quote: It's pretty simple, really. They went against us on what we stated was a big security issue. It's not in our security interest to encourage that kind of behavior.

whether it was a security issue or not was the crux of the debate, wasn't it?

	10-12-2003 23:06									#81
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quote: whether it was a security issue or not was the crux of the debate, wasn't it?

Well, we have consistently stated that Iraq was an important security issue. So it is.

	10-12-2003 23:12									#82
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america doesn't exactly have fiat, you know? perhaps it was to us. i'm still not completely convinced of that.

obviously, europeans saw things a bit differently.

	10-12-2003 23:26									#83
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I don't think Europeans can decide whether or not a situation is an important security issue to the US. That's probably best left to the US.

	10-12-2003 23:27									#84
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I don't see why especially if it affects anyone else besides the US.

	10-12-2003 23:28									#85
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the us should decide what's in its own best interest.

other countries should decide what's best in theirs.

perhaps to them, an attack on iraq was not the wisest nor best cours of action.

is that so hard to see?

	10-12-2003 23:29									#86
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quote: america doesn't exactly have fiat, you know? perhaps it was to us. i'm still not completely convinced of that.

Even if it wasn't, we said it was. So it was.

	10-12-2003 23:30									#87
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yet another logical breakdown.

	10-12-2003 23:31									#88
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Wolfowitz' remarks on national security obviously refered back to the US' assertion of Iraq as an important security issue, that's why Europe can't really argue in the context of reconstruction deals that it wasn't.

	10-12-2003 23:32									#89
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Again it would have been fine if it had stayed at that declaration. From the moment it wasn't, it can.

	10-12-2003 23:46									#90
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I wonder if the excluded countries can sue under the WTO and/or NAFTA (in the case of Canada)?