12-12-2003 01:16									#1
	{The List-} Multiplayer Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

Introduction

Multiplayer was a feature added very late to Civ 2 and was also not included in original Civ 3. Civ 4 Must come with this vital part of the game included as a fundamental concept.

Summary

Mos tof the ideas raised are for increasing flexibility of the MP games. LAN connectiing to Internet for example. Unfortuanlty from the lack of posting here, I can only summize that the majority of people are not interested in a MP version of the game, and therefore Firixis were right in their judgment call of not including it in the game. This does make me sad however the voices have spoken, or rather not spoken!

The Ideas

1.1 Ability to have LAN and Internet conections in same game.

1.2.0 Ability to play a PBEM-version of the game - smooth and without problems (from the game itself that is...... fx. a save-game file is created on the desktop ready to forward by ending the turn - protected by a password if such is choosen - and easy to open by double-cliking on the save-game file - eventually by entering the password.

1.2.1 Ability for the same number of players to play PBEM-games using the standard-game as the maximum number of players allowed in the game.

Alternative play the game with up to 8 human players and xx AI's up to the maximum number of players allowed in the game.

1.2.2 If/when an official patch is released, players should be able to finish running games without uninstalling the patch.

1.3 HotSeat Remain for all those without LAN or PBEM or Fast Internet

2.0 Multiplayer: Shared Civilization Control Support Apolyton

It would be nice if multiple players could share control of the same civilization in multiplayer. They could split up tasks among each other - one would deal with moving units, another with production... or they could each take care of a region of the civilization, or they could decide to split their responsibilities in another way or not split them at all (the decision would not need to be enforced by the game). It would make games with huge civilizations more managable and also probably speed them up.

2.1 Certain Events to be Voted on. If using shared control option

3.0 I think that Civ4 should be multiplayer form the ground up
while I rarely play civ3 multiplayer (it is not the best to do that way) that is still how I normally play it because I like playing wtih my friends one possibiltier to make civ4 mroe multiplayer iis this
make it so that every game had a server this server woudl handle things like AI and where everthing is for a single person game you would be your own server bur for a lan or internet game people woudl connect to the server (and the server might not even be playing) make the two sort of independent the idea of conquests was a good one, and something like that should continue to exist but Is till ike the epic game best, and I think a lto of other people do also

4.1 massive multiplayer idea 1

one idea of massive internet play is this (can probably be done on the lan also)
have a game start on a server
make an AI governor sort of thing
and than play with simultaneous turns, with the turn thing set for some constant unit of time which is suffiencently long
have a password to enter your game
have different servers set for different speeds
and so you (and your freinds) can play as a civ on one server that is going in real time
and for the turns youc an't be there, you have the AI run things
o a server would just be running constantly, and you would log on and play some turns
but while you were gone it would keep on playing (AIs would control)
you could also make the time control geographically depended, like a given server could be set to have time stopped for vertain hours of the day
than the game would go on from like 8-12 on modays, wednesday, and fridays, and if you don't show up, you have a compter (which yuo gave orders to) play for you

4.2 massive multiplayer idea 2

this idea is a little more different

basically you start a game
and the server has a whole bunch of people who start at roughly the same time start playing at once
and it keeps track of what sort of land you have and the like, as well as ech you have and what date it is
and than you log off
next time you play, you log on again, but none of your last group are on right now
so the server sticks you with a new group
this group is at the same time as you
but it is a different world, made by the server as an amogumatino of your previous world, and their previous world(s)
and oyu have the same techs as before and the like
but of course alliances and trades would no longer be in effect
and it could be sort of hard to make a new world to fit everyone's empires in
I admit that this is a wierd idea, it iis interestng though


5.0 Speed of turns

One of the biggest complaints re multiplayer is how slow it gets. A lot of this time is the amount of units especially workers that must be managed. To assit in multiplayer, the worker function must be addressed whic is of course the subject of other thread. But perhaps the use of CTP style Public works would be good. You could set all these tasks whilst others are having their turns and then on your turn the tasks are conducted.

6.0 Ability to play PBEM-games based on scenarios.

6.1 Ability to change leader-names/emailing adresses during the game. That would really help other players/game moderators during a game.





Conclusion

In conclusion I just reiterate my summary in that lack of posting here will cause a lack of a good MP game.



Respectfully Compiled by -Rasputin
With special thanks to:

Last edited by Rasputin on 26-06-2004 at 03:10

	12-12-2003 01:42									#2
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

2.0 Multiplayer: Shared Civilization Control Support Apolyton

I would like to be able to split tasks both by units/ production and by region.

3.0 Certain Events to be Voted On by MPers.

If this refers to my suggestion, shouldn't it be 2.1 or something? I was talking about shared civilization control where each player of the same civ has exclusive control of a task or region and also votes on certain things.

	12-12-2003 11:50									#3
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ok wasnt too sure,, will change it thanks

	12-12-2003 15:43									#4
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

a useful thread

http://apolyton.net/forums/showthre...threadid=103218

Jon Miller

	12-12-2003 16:04									#5
	Inflate your Upload Space

thanks jon....

	12-12-2003 16:11									#6
	Increase the size of your Attachments

well, I was just reminding you about my two posts (at least) on the subject on the first page

Jon Miller

	12-12-2003 16:27									#7
	Put an end to popups!

yep sorry i have just started the collection of multiplayer ideas tonight, have added your commetns now, i was sincere in my thanks....

	12-12-2003 22:17									#8
	Put an end to popups!

1.2.0 Ability to play a PBEM-version of the game - smooth and without problems (from the game itself that is...... fx. a save-game file is created on the desktop ready to forward by ending the turn - protected by a password if such is choosen - and easy to open by double-cliking on the save-game file - eventually by entering the password.

1.2.1 Ability for the same number of players to play PBEM-games using the standard-game as the maximum number of players allowed in the game.

Alternative play the game with up to 8 human players and xx AI's up to the maximum number of players allowed in the game.

1.2.2 If/when an official patch is released, players should be able to finish running games without uninstalling the patch.

6.0 Ability to play PBEM-games based on scenarios.

6.1 Ability to change leader-names/emailing adresses during the game. That would really help other players/game moderators during a game.

My wishes is based on CTP - some might already be possible in CTP2 and/or Civ3.

	12-12-2003 22:40									#9
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

Hotseat is probably the only form of multiplayer I would play, so I'd want to make sure it's in.

2.0 Multiplayer: Shared Civilization Control Support Apolyton

On second thought, how often will more than two players be sharing one Civ? If you only have two, you would have to be competetive in population of your region, and wouldn't that sort of defeat the purpose?

One player could set general governor settings, but the other could veto for cities in his or her region.

	12-12-2003 22:48									#10
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

quote: Originally posted by Brent Hotseat is probably the only form of multiplayer I would play, so I'd want to make sure it's in. 2.0 Multiplayer: Shared Civilization Control Support Apolyton On second thought, how often will more than two players be sharing one Civ? If you only have two, you would have to be competetive in population of your region, and wouldn't that sort of defeat the purpose? One player could set general governor settings, but the other could veto for cities in his or her region.

Well i think it good idea if it possbile to allow either players on a LAN or Internet to share their civ. you might have one that has veto rights who is the major civ player and others that perfrom governors jobs...


Why you only play HOTSEAT???

	12-12-2003 23:08									#11
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I don't want to tie up my phone like for a game, and I don't want to coordinate with people outside my house.

	12-12-2003 23:12									#12
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

ok, that true, but perhaps by time Civ4 is released you will have cable or DSL connection, i think the vast majority of internet will be Broadband connection within 3 years and that will free up phone line and enable better MP games.....

	20-12-2003 12:12									#13
	Get a bigger avatar today!

bump...

	24-12-2003 08:28									#14
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A little bit more flexibility when a player leaves the game. Currently, if a player loses his internet connection, the game will wait for him to reconnect...for 60 seconds I think. If the player fails to reconnect, his civ is instantly destroyed.

Could the game be paused until the host of the game makes a determination regarding the status of the player? A lot of times, you can check real fast with IM, determine what the issue was, and if it was a technical problem, it would be nice to bring the player right back into the game.

	25-12-2003 04:18									#15
	Inflate your Upload Space

pass the conttrol of civ to ai should be an option

	26-12-2003 18:39									#16
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

quote: Originally posted by Rasputin ok, that true, but perhaps by time Civ4 is released you will have cable or DSL connection, i think the vast majority of internet will be Broadband connection within 3 years and that will free up phone line and enable better MP games.....

Ok good point here.

I was originally going to ask for multiplayer functions for us who only have dialup internet access, thus not able to multi play, but you have raised a very valid point.

Thanks

	29-12-2003 13:37									#17
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

how about dedicated servers ala fps games? also it'd be nice to have observers and be able to have multiple players enter and leave the game just like in fps games.

	31-12-2003 07:13									#18
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

The problem with most peoples attempts at Pumltiplayer civ appear to me to be based on their desire to finish the game in one sitting. The relaity is , a good game of civ always takes a while to finish. Many sessions will be needed. To make a MP version of civ4 that caters for the quick finsih people will destroy the essence of civ . The MP community from Civ 2 is the strongest section of Multipalyers around and most didnt get into civ3. To make civ4 work, we need their input and what makes civ2 work but didnt wokr in civ 3.

Civ 4 MP players should relaise it will take many sessions possibly even months to finish a good game, direct connection via IP address is waht works best in civ2 MP. Whilst a server may be good to allow a lobby of palyers to join. Using a forum like poly is the best wat to find players at your level of play.

	31-12-2003 10:36									#19
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

Being a Civ 2 mutiplayer, how does mutiplayer work in Civ 3?
As an aside, my best game of mutiplayer took almost two years.

	08-01-2004 11:36									#20
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civ3 MP no where near as enjoyable as civ2MP IMHO...

it may be the type of players i played against but i jsut felt it was like playing a very slow version of SP civ 3.... MP games need to be more deep, with more diplomatic interaction. With so many people choosing Simultaneosu moves for Civ3 MP you miss the oppurtuinty to negoptiate with others, cause you to busy movuing all your piecs at the same time. Turn Based is the only way to allow a civ game multipalyer to play well , giving all the people whos turn it isnt the time to negotiate and micromanage their citys, during your own turn , you should jsut move your pieces.

Dont try to speed up civ 4 MP by forcing Simul moves, it was tryyed in civ 2 MP and most now gone back to turn based.


Probably need to adjust things like trade route checking , which is what appears to take most of the time between turns.

	08-01-2004 19:06									#21
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I don't know if C3C already does this, but I'd like the ability to shift between game modes. Start a game as hotseat, or over a LAN or the internet, and then when you start getting into the middle and late game where the time for each turn goes up I'd like to be able to switch to PBEM.

	09-01-2004 05:12									#22
	Get a bigger avatar today!

id like to see them go through all the reasons why the game is slow (mostly trade links checking I beleive) and eliminate these reasons.

By time Civ 4 Comes out Broadband connections should be far more avialable and civ 4 MP swhould state broadband as minimum requirements for game...

	13-01-2004 02:59									#23
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Sim should be an option but one that can be turned off at will, going back to the colour sequence.

	18-01-2004 12:34									#24
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quote: Originally posted by atawa Sim should be an option but one that can be turned off at will, going back to the colour sequence.

Never seen the advantag eof sim over turn based, excpet for the slow turns issues, so if the slowness goes, wont need tunrless or simul turns

	22-01-2004 05:19									#25
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Hybrid of PBEM/LAN/Hotseat alone would help SOOOOOOO much.

Right now you can PBEM/hotseat by hitting continue game but I'd also like a LAN game with detect mode to check whether next player is logged on in the game or not. If not, game will ask to be saved or wait for the player to connect. In that way you can play LAN whenever your teammates are active and you wanna play turns as fast as possible, but resort to PBEM when things slow down and you want more time to think about things.

Also, if you wanna be just there while opponent is doing their move and you wanna see the action of the enemy moves (that you're allowed to see ofcourse) you can choose to be there.

	22-01-2004 10:43									#26
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

if it on a lan arnet you nea rthe person anywway, usually same building ??

	26-06-2004 03:01									#27
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time to summarize this one too..

	01-08-2004 02:09									#28
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The 2.0 point could be expanded dramatically to provide support for Democracy games:

-have a game admistrator position (game account/password), with powers to change anything in game for any civ (player,team)
-have a civ leader position with powers to create sub-leaders with various powers, including: control of only unit movement (military, non-military); city management; trade (FAM)
-civ leader also sets general password for view only access to their civ - this allows the masses to view the game without risk of them changing anything accidentally or purposefully (cheating)
-each sub leader can open save either in view only mode or with access to their permitted areas only

This is just off the top of my head - I am sure others could expand this concept much further.

	01-08-2004 05:05									#29
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

Thanks for summarizing!

	03-08-2004 00:25									#30
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I, and those who play with me at college, only play Civ multiplayer, never single player. We will only be buying the game if it includes good multiplayer suport.