13-12-2003 12:35									#1
	To 2000AD or beyond? Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

When should the game's tech tree end? Should it go to historical events (ala Civ II/ Civ III) or beyond (ala CtP1/2)?

	13-12-2003 12:43									#2
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Around 2050 AD, just like Civ 3.

Call to Power just got too crazy with all of the "genetic age" junk and ridiculous concepts. War walkers?!?! By the time you got to the end of the tech tree the game stopped resembling anything famliar at all. You had cities in the water, AI supercomputers causing rebellions... it was jarring and made the player feel disconnected from the game that started 7000 years ago.

Civ 4 should be a true history game. Leave the future in the hands of the modders.

	13-12-2003 12:46									#3
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If it's just true history, it's not a game. Anyway, I want it to go to 2500 and maybe use SMACish techs.

	13-12-2003 14:01									#4
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I enjoy Call to power a lot....and i even had regrets when Call to power 2 ended much earlier. It should be possible to have the options to end the game at different times with various winning options, like:
up to 1000 (by discovering America...sending the fleet of Christophe Collombus)
up to 2050 (with the normal shuttle)
up to 3000 (with the options of Call to power)
And you could choose it at the beginning of the game.

	13-12-2003 14:04									#5
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Somewhere around 2050ish sounds good to me, I wouldn't fture tech but only if it's at least vagely realistic.
On second thought, nah, keep it as it is.

	13-12-2003 14:19									#6
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

I voted for the game to end at 2000 AD, but only because there was not an option for 2020 or thereabouts. I like seeing near-future tech - stuff we already pretty much know will be available, but I do not like to see far-future techs.

	13-12-2003 16:29									#7
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quote: Originally posted by Comrade Tassadar I think it should end at 2010 (allow a FEW future techs) however be expandable so that someone CAN create a new tech tree.

OMG!!! I agree with Tass about something!!! Time to check myself into a clinic....

I just want the option of additional ages. Right now, there are the Ancient, Mideval, Industrial and Modern age. These are hardcoded. I would like at least one more additional age (although two would be nice).

	13-12-2003 19:15									#8
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Or why not do away with ages entirely?

And Brent, I didn't mean that everything should happen just like it has in real history, I meant that the contents of the game should be based on real history. Just like the whole of the Civ series so far.

	13-12-2003 19:31									#9
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I'd take it to about 2020 only, and have a few extra future techs like fusion or superconducter. Just like civ1 and 2.

Civ3's late game techs are utter, utter cack. Smart weapons? Stealth? "Integrated" defense? Please. Not exactly railways or writing, are they? They're just Pentagon buzzwords.

The Stealth Bomber and Fighter should not be in the game either. They have about as much military significance as the Zeppelin.

	13-12-2003 19:37									#10
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quote: Originally posted by Comrade Tassadar I think it should end at 2010 (allow a FEW future techs) however be expandable so that someone CAN create a new tech tree.

YES! I don't care when the epic game ends, so long as I can string out the game for as many ages as I want.

	13-12-2003 23:08									#11
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Am I the only one to support the idea of circa 2100 AD?

It could give some time to use late-era techs, such as Fusion or superconductors. 2050 is too "tight" for my liking.

In civ2, you got fusion and said "nice, no more meltdowns". 3 years later, your spaceship reaches AC.

	13-12-2003 23:46									#12
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I voted for 2000AD but 2100AD to be exact, even though CtP2 is my favourite civ-type game, i think 2100 is a logical end, its not too short and its just beyond our own futures for the game to come to an end with landing on Alpha Centauri or some other thing we cant possibly imagine in our own lifetime.

Needed more poll options really.

	14-12-2003 00:32									#13
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I like how it was in Civ3. CtP(2)'s future technologies were a game-killer.

	14-12-2003 15:06									#14
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I think you should be able to select if the game is going to end in 2000 or if it is going to end in 3000. Almost like in ToT.

	14-12-2003 17:22									#15
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it should go into the future to a point that is not outlandish. like maybe a 100 years with infatry that use carbon fiber body armor and tanks that are armed with rail guns and stuff like that, fusion power, great wonder for landing a man on mars or moon base or martian mining, the advent of computer AI and stuff. In otherwards, techs that we know today as potentially possible, but just out of our technological reach. Nothin outlandish like Death Stars or Mech walkers.

so... 100 years into the future?

	14-12-2003 19:23									#16
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Yeah, just a few years, to the point that we can look forward and say, "Yeah, that's almost certainly what's going to be going on."

But if it's far enough into the future to actually be calling it "Sci-Fi," then I don't think we can honestly call it "human history."

	15-12-2003 02:05									#17
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2050 AD is good.

No Cyberninjas or Battlemechs.

But we should have some futuristic stuff that is like, Popular Mechanics futuristic, like scramjet aircraft, war satellites, HAARP like ion weapons (EMP) Rumsfeldts LandWarrior infantry (like the marines from Aliens 2).

	15-12-2003 03:45									#18
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Somewhere between 2050 AD and 2150 AD (maybe let the number of total turns depend on the difficultylevel)

But definately allow adding more eras.

What I really would like to see is that you would have to walk around for say 10-20 turns before you learn how to settle. And add time for these turns before the current starting point.

The time it takes could depend on difficulty level, allowing the AI to start building earlier on higher levels.

	15-12-2003 03:52									#19
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quote: Originally posted by Seeker 2050 AD is good. No Cyberninjas or Battlemechs. But we should have some futuristic stuff that is like, Popular Mechanics futuristic, like scramjet aircraft, war satellites, HAARP like ion weapons (EMP) Rumsfeldts LandWarrior infantry (like the marines from Aliens 2).

Cyberninjas and Mechs please
I play ctp and i cant play at multiplayer till diamond age the game always ends before because someone win. So for me ctp is a historical game
I think its fun to play in the futur with the ai. So i would like to have the possibility to play till 3000AD.
I like your idea of the futuristic stuff that really sonds good.

	15-12-2003 03:55									#20
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2000!!!!!!!!!!!!

2020 at the latest.

I do not want a future game for the regular game.

Though I would like a good enough editor so that futuristic games could be created by enterprising designers.

	15-12-2003 03:56									#21
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Hopefully, Firaxis will take one look at the votes going on in these forums and decide to abandon Apolyton as a source of inspiration, because I don't want to see C4 really be CtP3, and I doubt Firaxis does either.

	15-12-2003 08:54									#22
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quote: Originally posted by Sandman The Stealth Bomber and Fighter should not be in the game either. They have about as much military significance as the Zeppelin.

Is that a sarcastic comment? I mean, how is stealth not as revolutionary as the longbow, rifle or tank?

If we have Archer and Longbow...
If we have Musket, Rifle, Infantry, MI...

why not Bomber to Stealth bomber?
why not Fighter to Stealth fighter?

and yes, the zeppelin was close to a zero for military significance, but how can you compare that to the stealth bomber and fighter? They have radically changed aerial combat.

	15-12-2003 08:58									#23
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Stealth is possibly the most revolutionary technology wrt air warfare, second only to the jet engine.

	15-12-2003 08:58									#24
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Okay, I'm late to this thread, but I'm with everyone who doesn't want Call to Power 3 masqurading as Civ4.

You know why I didn't buy Call to Power 2 - despite liking the improved combat system -- it was those silly, silly techs. Actually the game seems less mature with those futuristic techs. I agree with the next generation of techs that are in research today...those can be in the game because they will become a reality, but not teleporting, matrix-like computers, and cities under the ocean.... blah.

So 2030 or 2050...something like that.

Last edited by Shogun Gunner on 15-12-2003 at 09:31

	15-12-2003 09:30									#25
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I also support 2050AD Although I liked CtP, I never liked the future techs part.

	15-12-2003 21:20									#26
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quote: Originally posted by Shogun Gunner Is that a sarcastic comment? I mean, how is stealth not as revolutionary as the longbow, rifle or tank? If we have Archer and Longbow... If we have Musket, Rifle, Infantry, MI... why not Bomber to Stealth bomber? why not Fighter to Stealth fighter? and yes, the zeppelin was close to a zero for military significance, but how can you compare that to the stealth bomber and fighter? They have radically changed aerial combat.

It's not as revolutionary because:

Stealth planes are slow.
Stealth planes are fantastically expensive.
Stealth planes have a poor weapons payload.
Any technologically-advanced country can detect them for a fraction of the cost of making them.
Apart from stealth, they are totally defenceless.

Most tellingly, they have not superseded jet fighters or jet bombers in the way that guns replaced bows or tanks replaced cavalry.

It's silly to have the stealth bomber instead of a more conventional jet bomber like the B-52. It's a travesty to have the stealth fighter (which is really another bomber) AS WELL.

	15-12-2003 23:08									#27
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I'd support an end between 2050 and 2100. BTW, didn't Civ1 end in 2100? Or am I remembering wrong?

EDIT: Voted 2000 because I think 3000 is waaaay off.

	15-12-2003 23:26									#28
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quote: Originally posted by Nikolai I'd support an end between 2050 and 2100. BTW, didn't Civ1 end in 2100? Or am I remembering wrong?

In Civ1 it depended on the diffiulty level.
I think Cheitean were 2100 and Emperor 2050. But I might be wrong on the numbers, but I'm 95.7% sure that they varied by the level.

	15-12-2003 23:37									#29
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Okay. Would that be an idea now too, perhaps?

	16-12-2003 01:31									#30
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ugh must be a 2050 or earlier ending. no new crap. Keep sci fi era for modders and geeks to implement.