01-01-2004 22:56									#61
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This poll really lacks bananas.

I voted 3000 because I want to be able to do something with my libraries once I have completed the (2000) tech tree. However, a 3000 tech tree, or any tech tree, will still have an end, which means an end to technology and progress. I don't want an end.
I would like a system where, once you have finished the tech tree, you can research techs that add something to existing units/buildings/whatnots. For instance, after I have discovered the latest, supposedly 2020, tech in 1950, what do I do in the 50 or 70 remaining years? I'd like to research 'improved infantry' techs, which will give me +1% to infantry units stats for every 1000 beakers put into the tech.
Etcaetera.

This allows to go beyond 2000 without going into science fiction.

	02-01-2004 00:22									#62
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LDiCesare,
What your suggesting would have to be not just an end game change though. I don't think it would be sensible to play the entire game with Civ 1/2/3 style tech advances, and then suddenly at the end of the game techs will now change things you already know.

Now, if you want to talk about making the whole tech tree like that, then I'm game. It would certainly be able to take us beyond 2000 without mechwalkers.

	02-01-2004 00:30									#63
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If we could add eras, it would be easy to make future eras ourselves. But the game has to only go into the forseeable future. Missile Defense System = ok, mechwalkers = not ok.

	02-01-2004 06:41									#64
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I didn't vote: 2000 is too soon. (It's 2003, after all, and still no spaceship to Alpha Centauri).

3000 is WAAAAY too long. As much as I enjoyed SMAC, it doesn't resonate the way Civ does because it's fictitious. (And somehow I think SMAC's PCness makes it blander than Civ's PCness. )

2100. Maybe shave some years off for difficulty, if necessary. I'm for extending the modern era slightly, perhaps, if eras are kept. Probably not a "future era".

I'm not against: mild terraforming, especially to reverse global warming; "cure for cancer", SDI, deep sea advances, shuttles, space stations, fusion, etc.

I AM against: mechwarriors, x-wings, space aliens, time travel, etc.

I'm FOR: making all those things I'm AGAINST allowed in mods.

	02-01-2004 07:39									#65
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My vote is for about 2050. A few future techs, ones that are conceivable and are in or entering their pipeline phase.

	02-01-2004 09:10									#66
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I would like to see cloning, superstring theory, nanotechnology, artificial organs, and other technologies that are clearly in the future, just not here yet. 2100 is a good stopping point. the first few future techs can have names but no benefits and be things like "robot mades", "personal flying cars", "killer robots posing as austrian bodybuilders", "robocop" or just be something the player can name.

	02-01-2004 11:29									#67
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2000. It's a game about history, not a sci-fi game, damnit.

The farthest out I would like to see the game would be 2050, and a few futuristic techs like say "Cloning" (new population can come from shields or something, I dunno) or "Virtual Reality" (2 citizens in every city are happy, maybe that could be a Wonder? ). But Firaxis, well, you're not Nostradamus, and putting in anything that's not already with considerable progress on it would be going too far.

	02-01-2004 16:28									#68
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quote: I would like to see cloning

Yeah, mass cloning of humans is really going to happen (at least not for a LONG time)

quote: superstring theory

Researching this would give you what benefits? Plus, that isn't in the future - we already HAVE superstring theory.

quote: nanotechnology

Further in the future than you think, and less powerful. Plus, that's really sci-fi-ish.

quote: artificial organs

Again: this would give you what benefits?

	02-01-2004 23:25									#69
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I voted for 3000AD although I think 2200AD would be enough (also since you would most of the time win before you reached the 'end-year').

By the way I very much like CTP2 because it some futuristic and original ideas.

ex. There was a zeppelin-like unit that was a representation of massive media manipulation ( publicity) I just loved it!

	03-01-2004 02:59									#70
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quote: Originally posted by Oncle Boris Am I the only one to support the idea of circa 2100 AD? It could give some time to use late-era techs, such as Fusion or superconductors. 2050 is too "tight" for my liking. In civ2, you got fusion and said "nice, no more meltdowns". 3 years later, your spaceship reaches AC.

I'd say 2500 AD. Many things could happen in earth's future: a Pax Americana (possibly resisted by Ghandhian tactics), the EU becomes a model for Regional Goverment, a Chinese economic boom leading to a world with more Authoritarian Capitalism, Islamists finding the Achilles heel of the world's economic powers, a new goverment form built on the slavish obedience of human clones ( or make this a possible future in fascism). In the last few years, there have been many more military tactics, terrorism, human shields (a 3rd party government might encourage the use of human shelds as a way to stop a goverments war plans withouty declaring war), Checimal weapons might or might not proke nuclear retaliation(if used in Gulf War I, the plan was to blow up Iraq's dams). A goverment might build a Ministry of Fear to work up it's populace (some leftwing sites claim that's the purpose of Orange Alerts).

The ship to AC should be more diffucult to build: I saw one real world proposal: use antimatter to fission smaller amounts than would otherwise be possible , to create the heat for fusion (currently, the only way to create fusion is by exploding an A Bomb, so the flight would be extremely bumpy). The ship would need helium3, mined on the moon.

This brings the game to 2100 or 2200, a few more centuries could be added with a serious greenhouse effect, depletion of oil, and the aging of the populationcould force the abandoment of cities, or it might happen naturally, because the longer game gives more countries a chance to build a nuclear arsenal to stop #1 from getting to AC.

	03-01-2004 03:32									#71
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I want the Space Race to be closer to what it was in C2 - you can launch a bare-bones ship, and have it travel slowly, or you can add lots of engines and stuff, and have it travel faster. Plus you got extra points IIRC for adding extra hab modules.

	03-01-2004 04:35									#72
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Around 2050 seems good. Just enough into the future to be realistic without being sci-fi.

	03-01-2004 05:07									#73
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I want the future in the game because for a conquest or space victory you need it, because no one's conquered the world yet or been to Alpha Centauri. Maybe the Space victory should be the Apollo Project or a probe leaving the solar system.

We should have future techs so we can advance farther than in real history. We need the game to last far enough into the future for logical division of eras, and years per turn.

You can avoid the future era by conquering the world or otherwise winning before it starts. Maybe when setting up the game you can decide which era will end the game.

Future history is still history.

There should be a significant chance of things turning out significantly different from real history.

Last edited by Brent on 03-01-2004 at 05:57

	03-01-2004 05:27									#74
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No, but people have considered the world to be conquered i.e. Alexander the Great. And, probes have left the solar system, so what's the fun in that? Doing something that everbody knows can be done, because it has been done, no room to improve over RL.

	03-01-2004 05:54									#75
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I dunno if someone siad this before (to lazy to read long english posts ), but, how about play until 2100 as a normal game, then it ends but there's is going to be more techs/eras if you like to continue.

Something like this could be the message:

"Ok man!, You're done, end fo the game!, what are you doing now?"

- Enough for me, let me go.
- No!, the IA have to pay!, let me continue with this!.
- Mmm... I wish to continue but with the normal rules, please.

So, for scoring/hall of fame purposes, if you continue playing, the score have to have a message.

"- The Slayer / Persia / Monarch / Diplomatic - 5000 (normal)
- The Slayer / Japan / Emperor / Conquest - 10000 (futuristic) "

And the "futuristic" mode must'n be more than 3500, for saying something.

What do you think?

	03-01-2004 05:54									#76
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I was just trying to compromise. What I would really want is getting to Alpha Centauri, although I usualy prefer conquest or cultural victory.

	04-01-2004 03:06									#77
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I have not read all the posts, but the two options in the poll do not capture people's opinions:

2010 - no future units or abilities

2050 - very limited future tech

2100 - some future tech

2200 - 3000 and beyond - Let's blue-sky about the future and make it real in Civ4!!!

My vote is for 2100 with the victory condition of the first successful permanent settlement on Mars

	04-01-2004 06:14									#78
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quote: [SIZE=1] My vote is for 2100 with the victory condition of the first successful permanent settlement on Mars

Hmmm. I like that. It could make for a semi-open ending: You discover the stuff you need for the spaceship, plus terraforming, ecology, etc.

You can build and launch your ship, but that doesn't mean your Mars colony will be successful. But once you've reseearched the entire tech tree, you can focus on improving your spaceship parts, terraforming, etc.

So, instead of "Future Tech 1", you've got "Terraforming 2" or "Low Gravity Combat"--I dunno, techs that improve your chance of successfully colonizing.

I'm not for actually going to Mars in the game.

[ok]

	04-01-2004 10:52									#79
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I would like to see some sort of expansion into the future.

We start the game so many thousands of years ago, it would be good if we could look a few hundred years nto the future.

	05-01-2004 02:44									#80
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I'd like to see an expansion/stand alone game like MoO 2 that Civ would transform to once you won the game with by landing a colony ship or something.

Sorta have a "You won the game!" screen then switch to a futuristic planet level conquest/civilization game.

	05-01-2004 03:29									#81
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quote: dunno if someone siad this before (to lazy to read long english posts ), but, how about play until 2100 as a normal game, then it ends but there's is going to be more techs/eras if you like to continue.

That would seem to be a waste of time for the programmers.

as for the basic idea of adding MORE MORE MORE and chaning civ's overall tone to one of weirdness (CTP)... just wondering did anyone play Empire Earth and consider it a better overall game than Age of Empires?

Which was the more polished (for its time)? Which was the standout above the crowd?

Empire Earth threw in the kitchen sink.
Age of Empires perfected things.

I would rather Civ be Age of Empires and focus on HISTORY... it's purpose than be Empire Earth/Call to Power and venture into the strange age of mechs and weird Alpha Centauri-like techs and diamond ages

	05-01-2004 04:25									#82
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quote: Originally posted by GhengisFarb I'd like to see an expansion/stand alone game like MoO 2 that Civ would transform to once you won the game with by landing a colony ship or something. Sorta have a "You won the game!" screen then switch to a futuristic planet level conquest/civilization game.

Here's how you can do that real easy, in four simple steps:

1. Win spaceship victory

2. Remove C4 CD

3. Insert SMAC CD

4. Click "Play"

	05-01-2004 04:25									#83
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quote: Originally posted by DarkCloud That would seem to be a waste of time for the programmers.

It seems that almost any feature could be a waste of time for programmers... the question is... is there any demand for future technologies in Civ... and the poll shows that there is at least some... probably enough, in fact to include in the game, as an option, not a requirement.

Thus those who choose can stop tech development at 2050, and there can be an extended tech progression for the others who choose to continue.

quote: I would rather Civ be Age of Empires and focus on HISTORY... it's purpose

Thats a rather presumptive statement... I'd say that most of the time civ games are divergent from "History".

The game as a whole seems to be more an empire (ok.. or a collection of cities and units) simulator, than a history simulator. The whole game is an abstraction... whats wrong with abstracting a future... as an optional choice?

	05-01-2004 04:42									#84
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I am completely against any future tech, and I think the Great Project at the end should be something that is imaginable with today's science (moon base could do the trick IMHO)

	05-01-2004 13:59									#85
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Well I honestly can't see whats wrong with giant stompy robots.
Honda already has a medium stompy robot so it can't be tooo far off. Nor is the neural interface. Besides it would be funnnn.

	06-01-2004 01:39									#86
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If things don't happen as in real history before 2004, why is it so different to see what happens after?

	06-01-2004 02:59									#87
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quote: Thats a rather presumptive statement... I'd say that most of the time civ games are divergent from "History".

They are based upon real history. that is the differece.

Have you ever noticed how people... hardcore and casual gamers gravitate towards games that are based on things that they KNOW?

More people bought Civ II and III than Alpha Centauri.
And I think the same thing goes for MOO II/III.

People understand what a chariot is... they don't want to have to memorize the relative advantages of a "Boolean Boot Drive" over a "Romulan Space Cannon"

Thats what mods are for Civ Games.
---
I say keep the game historical and end it in 2025. (with future tech bonus capabilities: Future Tech #1,2,3,etc.)

	06-01-2004 03:08									#88
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If the future isn't in the main game, at least let the designers do their own interstellar/ mars/ Alpha Centauri/ moon/ otherwise future scenarios.

	29-01-2004 21:06									#89
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I'd got with somewhere between the two mentioned dates... Something like 2100... I would like to go into the future, but not too far...

	04-02-2004 00:06									#90
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i dunno, it could be kinda cool that after you build a spaceship, you could try and colonize other planets and continue building your nation from an earth nation to an intersteller empire, colinizong planetes and battleing not only other rival human factions (if they still exist), but also alien races...

Well, maybe not for civ 4, but that would be a cool game somewhere down the line. be difficult to pull off tho, would have to develope some sort of awesome auto-micromangaing for that one or maybe after you colonize your first planet, it switches to planets as the base producer instead of cities