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Ecthy
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Zhonghuà Rénmín Gònghéguó
Mar 2000
time: 06:32
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So I'm doing a course at uni about "theories of nation and of nationalism" where these 2 terms are discussed. Our teacher is a Pole in his early 30s and he confronts us with essays from Gellner, Hutchinson, Smith, etc.
It reminded me of something Snapcase once said after some American poster stated how patriotism was a good thing and nationalism a bad thing. Snapcase, raised by a Hungarian woman, had an inverse opinion; for him, nationalism was just the wish for national union while patriotism to him was blind following out of the idea of being a good member of a community. Sirotnikov labelled himself a nationalist because he believed in the existence of nations.
All these ideas I remembered in this course. What is your understanding of the 2 terms (nation/alism)? Can nationalism ever be good? Is there a direct link to fascism?
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Ecthy
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Zhonghuà Rénmín Gònghéguó
Mar 2000
time: 06:32
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According to one guy, nationalism is a tool used by elites to control the masses.
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Ecthy
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Zhonghuà Rénmín Gònghéguó
Mar 2000
time: 06:32
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Probably. And: nationalism is an ideology, just as communism is.
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Ecthy
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Zhonghuà Rénmín Gònghéguó
Mar 2000
time: 06:32
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It has theory of cognition, a world picture and an idea of man.
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Ecthy
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Zhonghuà Rénmín Gònghéguó
Mar 2000
time: 06:32
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somebody must have slept in certain history lessons...
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Q Cubed
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t3h y3ll0w p3ril
Apr 1999
time: 23:32
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reasonable, as it not exclusionary.
for example: good patriotism is taking pride in american accomplishments, in the american way of life.
bad patriotism is doing that, and then making people trying to become american feel excluded.
a good patriot does not say to a muslim seeking to be american that he and his kind are all terrorists and then proceed to try and make his life miserable. rather, he welcomes him, and tries to help integrate the muslim into the american way, so before long, he is no longer muslim, but american.
a good nationalist is someone who takes pride in the accomplishments of his country, but does not disparage the accomplishments of another.
a person with good ethnic pride is proud of his ancestry's culture, and does not seek to destroy another's.
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Ecthy
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Zhonghuà Rénmín Gònghéguó
Mar 2000
time: 06:32
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Exclusion is always a part of nationalism and/or of nation-building. A nation defines itself also by how it's different from other nations.
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Ecthy
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Zhonghuà Rénmín Gònghéguó
Mar 2000
time: 06:32
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Care to elaborate on that suspicion, PA?
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East Street Trader
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London, United Kingdom
Jun 2000
time: 05:32
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It comes down to this. Human beings can control their environment well by co-operating.
As time has gone by the extent of that co-operation has become very extensive. Not just in terms of huge construction projects and huge co-operative industrial or commercial enterprises but also in such things as banking systems and international communications.
Such levels of co-operation require a lot of mutual trust and cohesion among those co-operating. Also a lot of confidence that conditions will remain stable. So the political unit has steadily grown - family to tribe to city state to nation state.
But this process has been associated with conflict. And the nation state has proved just as effective in co-ordinating people for war as it has for peace. Hence the appalling destructiveness of the Great War and the Second World War.
And I have come to think that the political institutions associated with the nation state are, in the modern world, now limiting factors. Which explains some of the current moves away fromm nationalism - the European Union, the United Nations, International courts, the Internet.
I suspect that controlling the environment now calls for a supra-national approach. Global warming, the threat of nuclear war, space exploration, developing a means to distribute wealth otherwise than through the wage mechanism - all these challenges are beyond a mere nation state.
We must take our level of co-operation yet one stage further.
So my answer to your question is no, there can be no good nationalism.
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Ecthy
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Zhonghuà Rénmín Gònghéguó
Mar 2000
time: 06:32
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Not at all. It's just very interesting to be told stuff about national identity by a man who comes from Poland but lives in Germany. If "state" is "authority", then what is "nation"? "society", I said, but no, he's a part of the German society, yet not of the German nation. "community", ah.
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Ecthy
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Zhonghuà Rénmín Gònghéguó
Mar 2000
time: 06:32
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You on the other hand express a lot of hatred against minorities in your sig.
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Bereta_Eder
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nationalism is prevalent in cities like Manchester where Stewie comes from because there are too many immigrnats It's like a drug to help him close his eyes to a reality that disgustes him.
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Bereta_Eder
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You know it's true.
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Ecthy
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Zhonghuà Rénmín Gònghéguó
Mar 2000
time: 06:32
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What about Macedonia? Is it true there's a country and a Greek province named that? Do both area contain people of a Macedonian nation? Which bears the name justifiedly?
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Bereta_Eder
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Ecthelion OTOh has lived his life in the collapse of a dream. In eastern Germany. He hasn't gone through th psyche cleansing of western germans. His country was an oppressive regime and all of the sudden he's reuniated with his better half.
Unemployment, disellusion, still he has held better than Stewie.
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16-12-2003 20:07
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