17-12-2003 20:41									#121
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* MrBaggins cleans out his ears

If I didn't know better, that sounds like a concession... can it be?

[EDIT: smiley added]

	17-12-2003 20:43									#122
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quote: Originally posted by Ming It's illegal to download software in Canada without compensation

Software, yes, mp3 and movies, no, as long as you dont duplicate it with the purpose of selling it for an additional revenue,


Spec.

	17-12-2003 20:45									#123
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No... not a concession at all. It is still illegal in countries that have agreed to go along with international law on this isue.

My argument doesn't change... if you break the law, you are acting in an illegal fashion. All you have done is pointed out that it isn't "the Law" in some countries... and I agree, that it is the first valid argument that you have raised.

	17-12-2003 20:45									#124
	Increase Your PM Length

Interestingly, the EU and Canada didn't sign this either... and it was due to the US' insistance on some dumb DMCA provisions.

Of couse, generally speaking these nations have fairly complete copyright laws, except that pesky new Canadian exclusion, of course.

	17-12-2003 20:49									#125
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So.. its illegal... or not... depending on where you are sitting at the time.

Thus you can't generalize that software intellectual property infringement is illegal

	17-12-2003 21:05									#126
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All Malaysian Poly members, please raise your hands.

	17-12-2003 21:08									#127
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

Malaysia isn't the only country... its an example. Other nations have these same exclusions (or.. that is... specific inclusion of commercial gain,) and obviously aren't on the WIPO treaty, since that is so limited.

Its just the haven du-jour, for now.

	17-12-2003 21:10									#128
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quote: Originally posted by MrBaggins Thus you can't generalize that software intellectual property infringement is illegal

You are indeed correct... However, I can still say, it's illegal to do so if you live in a country that has signed the international agreement, or in a country that has it's own laws covering it.

And since the majority of people at poly live in such countries...

	17-12-2003 21:14									#129
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Although if you live in another nation, you could still get a shell in Malaysia, and download via that.

That concept hasn't been properly addressed in law.

Of course... I don't expect many do that either, considering that its effectively not enforced if you download stuff locally.

	17-12-2003 21:16									#130
	Increase Your PM Length

Wow Ming, never seen you so active in a thread before. You have the most posts in it at the moent. Copyrights and software ''theft'' really means a lot to you.

Spec.

	17-12-2003 21:16									#131
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I download only freeware and demo-versions.

BTW... How can I be sure about the legality of the things I download?

	17-12-2003 21:18									#132
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Read the licenses of the products which you download.

	18-12-2003 01:08									#133
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

I don't know why people are trying to say that DLing software isn't illegal. It not only is illegal, but even discussing how to get around software protection is illegal in the US (for now, seems a fundimental violation of the 1st Amendment to me, but the higher courts haven't weighed in on this yet). It is illegal, and it should be.

We can argue about what exceptions and limitations should be made, how long it should apply, etc., but software developers do have a right to expect to be paid for their work. If all softwar development was done for free, there wouldn't be very much, as we'd all have other jobs while developing software in our freetime.

	18-12-2003 01:12									#134
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it is illegal, no bones about it.

unlike most other crimes, it's relatively easy to hide.

unlike some other crimes, some of the laws it is based on are grossly unfair, as well.

for instance: the DMCA.

or: the fact that you can now own copyrights for up to 90 years after the creator's expiration.

which is why some classic films, such as some of hitchcock's original prints, are unable to be transferred onto other media.

	18-12-2003 09:17									#135
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quote: Originally posted by Ming Yeah... I would love to see how some of these people's opinions would change if they were the one being ripped off

To be honest, I don't have anything particularly illegal right now. Just two cracked shareware apps that I plan to purchase sometime after I get my credit card.

The bank has approved me for that, so it should come in the mail soon. Hopefully, this week.

Prime Palaver #7 - Eric Flint on the advantages of free copies for authors
Janis Ian on music downloading

Courtney Love on the sorry state of copyright

	18-12-2003 09:48									#136
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quote: Originally posted by Spec Wow Ming, never seen you so active in a thread before. You have the most posts in it at the moent. Copyrights and software ''theft'' really means a lot to you. Spec.

Yeah, who'd had thunk it?? Something boring like copyrights and software is his highest passion here on Apolyton for discussion.