18-12-2003 20:54									#1
	Turn 143, 270 AD Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

To be edited by the Consuls and Ministers.

Status:
- Republic
- Researching Invention (15) 1 scientist.
- 719 gold cash, +37 gpt.
- Slider at 9/0/1 tax/sci/lux

Urgent questions & tasks:
MoW - Western Front and holding the BoP tile; Southern front and Western front and stopping any GCA landing
MoW/MoI- Build Queues?
MoI - Upcoming city sites - current proposals are acceptable? - See Poll
MoI - Plan to build Colossus and Great Wall in Tripoli and Hispanica - WHEN so that GA begins with optimal timing?
FAM - What provisions for a treaty would CFC accept? What will make them want to honor the treaty, at the very least in the short term?

Unit movement & actions

Unit Roster

To be edited by MoW

Economy:
Apolyton - Building Settler (turn 2 of 3).
Mingapulco - Building Marketplace (turn 5 of 10).
Chaquita - Building Marketplace, change build to Granary (turn 5 of 26).
Bananatopia - Settler built, start building Settler (turn 3 of 3).
Incensity - MI built, start building Marketplace (turn 3 of 13).
Nevermore - Building Settler (turn 12 of 13 schedualed).
Tripoli - Horseman built, start building Marketplace (turn 1 of 10).
Equilibrium - Building Settler (turn 18 of 30)
Hispanica - Building Horseman (turn 4 of 4).
Power of Victory - building Walls (turn 5 of 20).
Karina - Building Forbiddden Palace (turn 14 of 30).
LuxInvicta - Worker built, start building Worker (turn 1 of 3).
Big Bend - Building Granary (turn 4 of 16 schedualed).
BigFurryCity - Building Num Merc (turn 3 of 3).
Resolution - Building Worker (turn 7 of 10).
Heart of Darkness - Building Market (turn 13 of 19).
Elucidium Novum - Building Worker (turn 9 of 9 schedualed).

WF:
Apolyton - starting 3-4-8-12-14-17. NC.
Mingapulco - (Grows this turn) starting WF 2-3-??5??-6-9-10. Change WF to 2-3-5-6-10-12.
Chiquita - starting WF 1. NC.
Bananatopia - starting WF 2-4-5-13-15-19. NC.
Incensity - starting WF 5-6-7-17. NC.
Nevermore - starting WF 7-8. NC.
Tripoli - starting WF 2-4-7-9-17. NC.
Equilibrium - starting WF 7. NC.
PoV - starting WF 3. NC.
Hispanica - starting WF 1-2-3-13-20. Change WF to 1-2-3-12-20
Karina - starting WF 1-4-11-12-13. NC
LuxInvicta - (worker built) starting WF ??1-3-11??. Change WF to 1-3-5.
Big Bend - starting WF 1-3-19. Change WF to 1-3-4.
BigFurryCity - starting WF 5-6-7-8-19-20. NC.
Resolution - starting WF Scientist. NC
Heart of Darkness - starting WF 3-5-10-11-13. NC.
Elucidium Novum - (grows this turn) starting WF 2-??3??-8. Change WF to 2-3-8.

Workers:
Monkee & CalcII - move 2-2 (to Never 8) and start clearing.
Squid & Horse - move 1 (to the Dyes at BB WF #12). Will start clearing next turn. This is setting things into motion for the expansion.
Mark & Otto - Road (done).
panag, Sike & Moosefart - tile cleared, 1 worker frozen, other 2 mobile. The 2 that are mobile, road (done).
Go3 (MrWIA, EVC and Dejon) - move 1 (to EN WF#4) and Mine (done).
Lib & Slave Farb - Road (done).
Yo & Slave Anarchy - Road (done).
rah - start roading (2 turns schedualed).
Sanchez - move 3-2-1 (joining rah). Will help road next turn.
GP - road (3 turns to complete).
Worker ?? (at Res 6-6) - start Roading (2 turns to complete).
New worker from Lux, move to Apolyton (9-9-8). Will be added to city on the turn that Poly's settler is built.
To be edited by MoI

Settlers: see General Overall City Placement Plan #1 for locations
Settler Founder - move 2, will build city next turn
Other settler (needs name) - move 2-2-2 (headed to the New Catch site).


-
Diplomacy:
GCA: WAR
CFC: Allied against GCA (not in game, Peace in game)
CGN: Peace
GWT: Peace


Comment, please, many "plans" (especially those marked with '??') are just suggestions or ideas, not decisions already made.

---
Note: keypad directions used for all except in WF orders.

Discussion and basic reporting to follow. See the topped thread for comprehensive results

Last edited by E_T on 28-12-2003 at 00:37

	21-12-2003 00:38									#2
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

Time change and didn't realize it....

Could someone with Mod ZpellZ change it to where it shows on the front page??

Thanks
E_T

	27-12-2003 07:08									#3
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

Maybe it was not such a good idea to not have the curent turn thread topped...

Anyways, the turn is here.

	27-12-2003 07:57									#4
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

No peace offer from GCA.

GWT has built the Collosus.

	27-12-2003 08:22									#5
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

quote: Originally posted by BigFree GWT has built the Collosus.

... And their GA...

	27-12-2003 08:34									#6
	Put an end to popups!

It looks as though Apolyton and Mingapulco are the only cities that need the luxury slider at 10%.

Why don't we just adjust the WF so that we can put an entertainer or tax man in those cities and put the slider at 0?

We'd lose very little production and food for those cities. Mingapulco has a MP in 6 (with an entertainer/tax man or not) turns as it is and Apolyton builds a settler in 3 turns instead of 2. What we end up gaining is 14 gpt if we can set the slider at 0. We are making 31 gpt at 10% Lux slider and 45 gpt at 0% with taxmen set in those two cities.

Next turn Karina grows and we will either have to use an entertainer or set the slider back to 10% so that it can built the FP sooner, though I'm not sure how much sooner it can be done with an extra WF that will be added to that city next turn. We can use the two hill tiles to get up to 13 shields gross before waste (9 shields net) with it using just 5 tiles, but I'm not sure if that the 6th tile, which can only add 2 more shields to the gross, will be lost to waste or not. I would would guessing that one of them would be lost.

Either way we can get an extra 14 gold for this turn. I'd even be willing to add a turn or two to the FP's build if we can save ~14 gpt during it's build.

Another thing to consider is that now GCA is gone from our Continent, mongoose may "force" GCA into accepting peace; though I hope our peace message/offer will be acepted and we won't have to resort to mongoose stepping in. When we get peace with GCA, we can easily get size 6 cities with no luxury slider and no temples due to the 4 luxuries that we now have. How long do we give GCA to "accept" the peace offer before we ask mongoose to step in?

	27-12-2003 19:53									#7
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Ming will have it's Market built soon so that won't be a problem

And as for Poly, we need to maintain it's food balance, so that we can get the Settlers from it as fast as possible.

Also, Karina will soon be up to size 6, which will also need the lux.

We need to get peace with GCA and then things will be fine.

I'll have the orders posted shortly.

MoI E_T

	27-12-2003 20:39									#8
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

I can't download the save.

E_T

	28-12-2003 00:14									#9
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

quote: Originally posted by BigFree Another thing to consider is that now GCA is gone from our Continent

Are they gone from the continent? Isn't there a galley trapped in the sea?

And whatever happened to that pike army? destroyed, disbanded, moved off continent?

	28-12-2003 00:44									#10
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

quote: Originally posted by asleepathewheel And whatever happened to that pike army? destroyed, disbanded, moved off continent?

Probably moved to the other continent.

	28-12-2003 03:02									#11
	Tired of ads?

quote: Originally posted by E_T Ming will have it's Market built soon so that won't be a problem And as for Poly, we need to maintain it's food balance, so that we can get the Settlers from it as fast as possible. Also, Karina will soon be up to size 6, which will also need the lux. We need to get peace with GCA and then things will be fine. I'll have the orders posted shortly. MoI E_T

I have previously addressed everything you mentioned in my post, but yet you did not adress my points at all.

You could be wrong you know, just take a look. We'd be, in effect, "rush" buying a settler by wasting that 14 gpt to get the settler sooner.

	28-12-2003 10:51									#12
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

Turn 143 - 270 A.D. Turn Report

Attendance
Arnelos
Trip
notyoueither
roadcage
Master Zen (in and out)

Foreign Affairs
Received an accepted WM from CFC and we accepted (and received their WM)

Christening Units

New Worker in Lux Invicta named "Bureaucrat"

War Orders

AIS Princess of Apolyton (at Boston 9-9-8) moves 8-8-8 to Sued-? 6-3-3
4/4 forted GWT MI spotted on mountain at Sued-? 6-6
6 GWT pikeman, 4 GWT catapults, and 3 GWT workers spotted in Fortress at Sued-? 2
AIS Seeker (at Incensity 6) moves 4 into Incensity and forts (to repair damage)
AIS Hunter (at BigBend 3-3-2-2-2) moves 3-6-9 to Tripoli 3-3-2-2-2-2
1/5 GWT galley "GWS Glueckskind" spotted at Tripoli 3-3-3-2-2
MI BigFurryInfantry (at Equilibrium 4-4-1) moves 2 to Equilibrium 4-1-1-1
MI Vlad Antlerkov (at Equilibrium 4) moves 7-4-4 to Equilibrium 4-4-4-7
1 2/2 barb warrior is protecting the barb camp to the West
MI MrWIA (in Equilibrium) moves 4 to Equilibrium 4 and forts
MI Sleepy (at BFC 7-8) moves 8 to BFC 7-8-8
Knight Bambi (in Mingapulco) moves 7-8-8-8-8-8 to BFC 7-8-8
MI MJW (at Equilibrium 9-9) moves 2 to Equilibrium 6
MI Igor (at Victory 4) forts
MI E_T, MI Aidun, MI Theseus, MI Scourge, MI Steelglove, NM Waiter, NM Sharpe, NM Enamel, NM Mao, Cat Karina, Cat Possum, Cat Simon, Cat Kloreepult, Cat Smasher, Cat Heart of Darkness, Cat Toss, Cat Hurl, and Cat Fling (at Anarchy ruins) move 8-8-7 to Resolution 2
Workers Yo & Anarchy complete road at Anarchy 4
Horse Trip's Guard III (at Anarchy 4) moves 6-9 to iron mountain at Anarchy 9 and forts
NM Taxi (at Anarchy 2-1) moves 7-8-6 to Anarchy ruins
MI Robin (at Anarchy 2-2-3) moves 4 to Anarchy 2-2-1
MI Bananatopia (at Anarchy 2-2-2-1) moves 8 to Anarchy 2-2-1
MI hack (at Silkcity(?) 3) forts
Horse Vondrack (at Resolution 9-9-8) moves 8-8-9-8-8-7 to EN 6
Horse BFC, Horse Incensity, and Horse Bingo (at Resolution 9-9-9) move 9-8-7-8-8-8

* Arnelos noted that Settler Founder seems to be moving to a city site off of the road network with a complete lack of escort and a GCA galley still at large. Arnelos suggested diverting an NM from Power of Victory to defend the settler (and city) and then reinforce PoV with an NM from the main army next turn (if not more NMs). A note needs to be made to E_T that we need that new city linked by road due to the threat of a GCA galley landing. A road would means we wouldn't have to divert more troops to defending that new city sitting off the road network. roadcage (who was in chat) volunteered his NM for the assignment.

NM roadcage (in Victory) moves 6-8-7 to Victory 9-8
Warrior WWNN (at Victory 8-8-8-8-9) moves 7 to Victory 8-8-8-8-8
MI alva (at EN 3) moves 7 into EN and forts

* roadcage made a suggestion to swap a knight in the core for a horse near Equilibrium. Arnelos decided to back up roadcage's idea and a long argument between Trip and Arnelos ensued over the wisdom of this idea. Arnelos argued that while he eventually wanted most of the knights in a reserve force near the core and most of the NM's at the 2 chokepoints, we would also want at least 1 knight at each chokepoint and a few NM still in the core. It's also the case that we can afford to have a very small reserve in near the core right now because GWT's galley can at most have 2 units, which our core force of 1 knight, 5 horses, and 2 NM (by next turn) will be more than capable of handling while our army in the south out-matches CFC's army on the other side of the chokepoint there. So we can afford to divert the knight West to help barb hunt, etc. Trip argued that while we only have 3 knights, we need to keep all of them in the reserve in the event of an emergey (however unlikely) in the south. notyoueither eventually came in and sided with Trip. Arnelos was convinced when it was pointed out that the 2 elite Numidian Mercenaries in the core are both destined for the Equilibrium chokepoint, which means we should have more than enough there (even with the MI barb off barb hunting if that happens).

NM Dominae (at Hispanica 6) moves 1-1-2 to HoD 6
NM Panzer32 (at Tripoli 2) moves 4-4-4 to BigBend 4
NM Ghengis (at Tripoli 3) forts
Knight HTower (in Mingapulco) moves 2-1-1-1 to Karina 4 and forts
Horse BigHorse (at Equilibrium 6) forts
Horse conMcHorse (at Equilibrium 6-6) moves 4 to Equilibrium 6 and forts
NM ZargonX (in Equilibrium) forts
Warrior not_panag forts

Workers

(Yo & Anarchy already built their road in the military orders)
Monkey & Calc II (at Karina 1) move 2-2 to Nevermore 8 and start clearing jungle
Squid & Horse (at Tripoli 2) move 1 to BigBend 6-3
Mark & Otto (at Karina 2) road (done)
Spike & Moosefart (at Heart of Darkness 3) road (done)
MrWIA, EVC, & Dejon (at EN 6) move 1 to EN 3 and mine (done)
Lib & Slave Farb (at Elucidium 1) road (done)
rah (at Resolution 6) starts roading
Sanchez (at Inevitable ruins) moves 3-2-1 to Resolution 6
GP (at EN 3-3) starts road
Screech (at Resolution 6-6) starts road
Bureaucrat (in Lux Invicta) moves 9-9-8 to Apolyton 2

Note to E_T: As mentioned in the military orders, we need a road to the new city to be founded by "Founder" as soon as possible. At present, Founder is undefended and while diverting a single NM to defend the new city may seem enough, it may not be enough with a GWT galley on the loose and no road connecting the city. If it's not too much of an inconvenience to your building plans, we'd like a road to that city sooner rather than later in order to make defending it easier (just in case...).

Additional Settlers

Founder (at Victory 9-8-8-8) moves 2 to Victory 9-8-8
New Apolyton (at Karina 1) moves 2-2-2 into Nevermore

WF Placements

Mingapulco to 2-3-5-6-10-12
Hispanica to 1-2-3-4-20 (same FPT, SPT, and GPT as the ordered 1-2-3-12-20... note that Hispanica #12 was taken by Apolyton, as ordered)
BigBend to 1-3-4
Lux Invicta to 1-3-5
Elucidium Novum to 2-3-8

Suggestion to E_T: If you could place cities in your WF orders in a priority order based upon dependent WF changes, that would be helpful (though not necessary). For instance, your orders this turn but LuxInvicta before BigBend, though the WF change for LuxInvicta is dependent on the WF change for BigBend. Switching them wouldn't be necessary, but then again might streamline the orders' execution. Just an idea to consider if it's not too much trouble.

Economy

* There was some quick discussion between roadcage, Trip, and Arnelos of BigFree's suggestion regarding the luxury slider, which E_T had disagreed with him on. Apparently, E_T, notyoueither, and Trip had already jointly agreed to keep the luxury slider in place because of the impact on FPT in several key cities such as Karina and Apolyton if WF changes would be necessary. Arnelos agreed with this argument.

LuxInvicta changed to Worker (5 turns, should be 3 after WF change(s))
BigFurryCity switched from Knight (2 turns) to Marketplace (5 turns)

Note to E_T: It was noted that the Economy orders this turn were obviously just holdovers copied and pasted from previous turns with some of the numbers changed, but other things not changed (such as when previous units would be completed like the horseman in Tripoli). Given that Christmas was 2 days ago (just barely now 3), this is more than forgiveable, though.

Miscellaneous and End Turn

Treasury: 589 Gold
Net Income: +29 GPT
Research: Invention (14 Turns)
Strong to GCA
Average to CGN
Strong to CFC
Average to GWT
Thracian tribes near BigFurryCity

Turn saved and sent at 12:31 a.m. EST on Sunday, December 28 (0531 GMT on Sunday, December 28) to:

msdg@civfanatics.net
intersitepbem@mongoose201.com

----------------------

	28-12-2003 21:56									#13
	Full PM-box? Change here!

quote: Originally posted by Arnelos Turn 143 - 270 A.D. Turn Report * Arnelos noted that Settler Founder seems to be moving to a city site off of the road network with a complete lack of escort and a GCA galley still at large. Arnelos suggested diverting an NM from Power of Victory to defend the settler (and city) and then reinforce PoV with an NM from the main army next turn (if not more NMs). A note needs to be made to E_T that we need that new city linked by road due to the threat of a GCA galley landing. A road would means we wouldn't have to divert more troops to defending that new city sitting off the road network. roadcage (who was in chat) volunteered his NM for the assignment.

It's in the works, but I have to get some of the area around New catch ready for as fast of a pop build as possible. I also have to get Irrigation up there, too.

GCA might have disbanded that Galley, but we need to make sure that CFC checks it out to verify that they are gone.

quote: Note to E_T: As mentioned in the military orders, we need a road to the new city to be founded by "Founder" as soon as possible. At present, Founder is undefended and while diverting a single NM to defend the new city may seem enough, it may not be enough with a GWT galley on the loose and no road connecting the city. If it's not too much of an inconvenience to your building plans, we'd like a road to that city sooner rather than later in order to make defending it easier (just in case...).

See above. I'm sending workers down there and getting things set up, but it all takes time.

quote: Suggestion to E_T: If you could place cities in your WF orders in a priority order based upon dependent WF changes, that would be helpful (though not necessary). For instance, your orders this turn but LuxInvicta before BigBend, though the WF change for LuxInvicta is dependent on the WF change for BigBend. Switching them wouldn't be necessary, but then again might streamline the orders' execution. Just an idea to consider if it's not too much trouble.

I place the cities in the order of cycling through from the first one, i.e. you start at poly and work around. It's not perfect, but with several interlocking WF changes, no system really would be. It's just up to the person doing the turn to double check it all. I have it so that it;s the best in that respect.

quote: Economy * There was some quick discussion between roadcage, Trip, and Arnelos of BigFree's suggestion regarding the luxury slider, which E_T had disagreed with him on. Apparently, E_T, notyoueither, and Trip had already jointly agreed to keep the luxury slider in place because of the impact on FPT in several key cities such as Karina and Apolyton if WF changes would be necessary. Arnelos agreed with this argument.

Rushing settlers and using Specialist would only mess up the food balance, which is the thing that I'm trying to maximize the most. The sooner that a city recovers from a settler built, the sooner it can get another out the door, so to speak.

quote: Note to E_T: It was noted that the Economy orders this turn were obviously just holdovers copied and pasted from previous turns with some of the numbers changed, but other things not changed (such as when previous units would be completed like the horseman in Tripoli). Given that Christmas was 2 days ago (just barely now 3), this is more than forgiveable, though.

Yah, things change and I had forgotten a detail or 2.... The thing is, the most Important part of the orders are the WF and Worker taskings. The build items are more for doublechecking and general information than for anything else (except when a new build starts).

Also, it would be nice, if the orders are already up, for someone to look them over, before the save even arrives.

MoI E_T