25-10-2003 10:20									#1
	Settling old CDG and GCA lands Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

Now that we have three new settlers ready to do their job it's time to seriously think about placing our new cities. Currently our new settlers are heading toward Cuido de Alcohol.

I've asked NYE to post a current screenshot of the area once he is finished with turn 128. After that, please start suggesting city locations as we will need them in the upcoming turns.

	25-10-2003 10:43									#2
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by your command[/metalic voice]

	25-10-2003 10:48									#3
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Thanks NYE.

I just went back and copied a few screenshots from past city placement idea threads...mainly from Dominae's RCP thread.

From Dominae:


And from BigFree:

	25-10-2003 10:56									#4
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Excellent. I was just going to go hunt those down.

	25-10-2003 17:19									#5
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Strike my screenshot. It was created on the assumption that RCP worked the same way with the Forbidden Palace as with the original Palace, which is false.


Dominae

	25-10-2003 18:12									#6
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It still works somewhat... it's just not the right way...

As of right now, we have 3 settlers. With the way that the war is going, GCA might destroy all of their cities, so we might need to replace BoP and Catchopolus. I plan to have 2 of those settlers set aside for that possibility. The rest will start filling up oldCDG areas for now.

I'm working on a full plan, detailing what we are going to see about doing (i.e. debate and such). It will be in 3 to 4 phases, depending on FP and place moves.

I'll post that in a few days.

MoI E_T

	25-10-2003 20:50									#7
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I'm thinking that one city should definately be planted on the jungle tile at the destination of the river.

It would be coastal, have a natural aquaduct, remove one tile of jungle for free, and use the fish

	25-10-2003 23:23									#8
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Which existing cities are considered camps?

	25-10-2003 23:33									#9
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I would abandon Karina and Mingapulco, sice both cities can be abandoned without wasting any times in their city radii. Beyond that, I am not quite sure yet.

	26-10-2003 02:17									#10
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Hi,

why don't we just use nukes to clear the land faster?

have a nice day

	26-10-2003 03:50									#11
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Lux Invicta and Nevermore are the only two cities we built ourselves that were originally meant to be temporary. Karina and Mingapulco are both good cities and I see no reason to disband them.

We're getting ahead of ourselves here: the question we must first answer is where our border with CFC will be. Then we can figure where we should jump our Palace. And only then can appropriately place our next cities.

The one thing that we can do right now is start building our FP (which probably should involve workforce rearrangement and Worker joins). Is this in the works yet?


Dominae

Last edited by Dominae on 26-10-2003 at 07:00

	26-10-2003 04:23									#12
	The Plan: Rough outline Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

The next group of settlements will be done in Phases, which are:

Phase I: Now until the end of the war. GA hopefully starts.
Phase II: Post War to when the FP is built in Karina.
Phase III: FP to Palace Move.
Phase IV: Post Palace Move.

Phase I - this phase will be touchy, as we don't know exactly what GCA will leave us. We have no Idea if they will Abandon Catchopolus, especially to prevent us from getting the Great Library. We will see. The most important thing is to make sure that we have a settler ready to rebuild Catchopolus and Balance of Power, if they are abandoned. As of this posting, we have 3 settlers and I task 2 of them to follow the Armies south.

Also, during this time, the 3rd settler is to go to a spot in the older CDG area, close to the wheat. It will be used of Worker Production, but it will also have some heavy corruption.

Phase II - Until the FP is built, we can settle the south, but we need to realize that none of those cities will be very useful. Their Corruption will be near to completely Catastrophic, especially as we place more cities in the CDG area. So, I suggest that a more complete settlement of the CDG area wait until the FP is built.

Phase III - At this time, we can start to work on the other areas that we control, like the southeast and the last of the area between Equilibrium and Karina. We can also use this time to settle some of the remaining Northern areas.

Phase IV - Finish up the rest of the settling.

Things that we will have to do before the Palace Move:
Markets and Librairies in our current core.
Courthouses built in our Current core - the closer to the time of the move, the better.


Things to consider for the inland sea:
As we know, we will someday have to invade CGN/GWT if we want to try to win this game. The Inland sea would allow us to build ships and keep them relatively safe from Harm and notice, until we sortee them. Our cities that we build on that sea will need Harbors and will be our Primary shipbuilding center. So, we should try to orient as many city placements with that in mind.

More specific things soon.

MoI E_T

	26-10-2003 04:48									#13
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Some great points, E_T. Moving to the immediate decision of what to do with these settlers, it seems the best places for them are all towards the front. I do think we should settle near where Elucidium was, but perhaps if we settled 9 of where it's ruins are we would guarantee some more shields for the future from the hills there. If we just resettle Elucidium, the only shield terrain we have there is the single hills with Iron and forest. Otherwise we would need to mine grassland in the far future.

Since Nevermore is going to be gone sooner or later anyway, there is not really an issue with overlap, and the new city would still get the Wheat straight away. There will be one less tile to clear and one less road to build as well. The other two Settlers wil likely be needed to resettle GCA lands, but where exactly? I would suggest resettling the site of Catchopolis would be a good idea, as it is central to that part of the land mass and a good site to have a road to from Proper Apolyton. The second settler I would have refounding Balance of Power, except perhaps 9 or 3 of its current site - with a CFC agreement we will not need to have a city blocking the isthmus like that, and the city will not benefit as much from 7 sea/coast squares as it will from an extra grassland or two and still having coastal access. If we moved it SE we would get the Cows as well.

	26-10-2003 06:09									#14
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If we resettle BoP, I would like to have it to were a ship can pass through from the inland sea. Having an southern enterance will allow ships to go toward the west side of the GWT/CGN Contenent.

Also, having only 1 enterance/exit is not very militarily sound.

E_T

	26-10-2003 07:02									#15
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quote: We're getting ahead of ourselves here: the question we must first answer is where our border with CFC will be. Then we can figure where we should jump our Palace. And only then can appropriately place our next cities.

I originally said 'GCA' instead of 'CFC'. Now that the correction is made, can we address this? Or have these points been addressed already?


Dominae

	26-10-2003 07:10									#16
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Here's a radical idea.

Instead of moving the palace into the narrow south (it benefits far fewer cities there) why don't we drag the FP down there one city at a time? And then jump the palace to the vicinity of Karina? That would give us the best of both worlds.

	26-10-2003 07:11									#17
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quote: Originally posted by Dominae I originally said 'GCA' instead of 'CFC'. Now that the correction is made, can we address this? Or have these points been addressed already? Dominae

We are hoping to come out of this with both choke points under our control. Everything past them would be for CFC,

	26-10-2003 07:12									#18
	Re: The Plan: Rough outline Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

quote: Originally posted by E_T Things that we will have to do before the Palace Move: Markets and Librairies in our current core. Courthouses built in our Current core - the closer to the time of the move, the better.

I highly recommend a major focus on more expansion before we concentrate on these improvements. Each productive city should build at least a couple of Settlers (and mabe some Workers for good measure) before proceeding on to a Maketplace. Our opponents are out of the way; we've got the land to expand into unimpeded. Let's use this opportunity to do just that. Then we can start talking about Marketplaces and such.

Also, with our FP built under 10 tiles from the current Palace location, all of our core cities will still be nicely productive after the Palace jump, and so building Courthouses preemptively is a romantic notion here, IMO.


Dominae

	26-10-2003 07:15									#19
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quote: Originally posted by notyoueither Instead of moving the palace into the narrow south (it benefits far fewer cities there) why don't we drag the FP down there one city at a time? And then jump the palace to the vicinity of Karina? That would give us the best of both worlds.

I'm not sure what you mean by the text I highlighted.

The reason building the FP close to home is a good idea is that it will be completed faster. The Palace jump is "free", so it's better to use that for your remote second core.


Dominae

	26-10-2003 07:26									#20
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You build the FP close to home. You then use the lessened corruption to rebuild the FP with a palace prebuild further away. When the palace prebuild reaches enough to build an FP, you disband the 1st FP city (after having built it down with settler/workers). You could repeat the process if desired to get the FP even further away from the core.

To answer a few questions pre-emptively, yes you can build a new FP after abandoning the first FP. Also, the 'jumps' can be aided by purchased court houses.

If we did it right, we could get an FP somewhere around Catchopolis with just one such maneuver though, I think.

I'm not sure if it would be best to do it this way, or to jump the palace to the South. However, when I look at the South I see a very small area of productivity. So, I am looking for better ways to situate our Palace/FP for the end game.

	26-10-2003 08:09									#21
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That sounds like a very time-consuming maneuver.

The FP in Karina and the Palace in GCA lands is as good as we're going to get for the end-game.

This way, there's also the hidden advantage of of being able to relocate our Palace once again if the opportunity arises (say, we have a falling out with CFC and decide to take all their stuff). Although as you say we could always disband the FP city and relocate that way, it's just more efficient to use the Palace for core mobility.

Ideally, I see things turning out thus:

1. Fobidden Palace completed in Karina.
2. Palace jumped to some city in ex-GCA lands.
3. Great Leader generated in war versus CFC.
4. Victory versus CFC.
5. Palace relocated to ex-CFC lands.


Dominae

	26-10-2003 10:43									#22
	Re: Re: The Plan: Rough outline Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

quote: Originally posted by Dominae I highly recommend a major focus on more expansion before we concentrate on these improvements. Each productive city should build at least a couple of Settlers (and mabe some Workers for good measure) before proceeding on to a Maketplace. Our opponents are out of the way; we've got the land to expand into unimpeded. Let's use this opportunity to do just that. Then we can start talking about Marketplaces and such. Also, with our FP built under 10 tiles from the current Palace location, all of our core cities will still be nicely productive after the Palace jump, and so building Courthouses preemptively is a romantic notion here, IMO. Dominae

I was planning on intermixing the builds as much as possible. But also, if we get our GA, we don't want to be using up some of that extra sheilds and trade while REX'ing. We do want to try to balance it out, so that we can get the best of both worlds.

But first, we have other things of major concern, like GCA now having Iron and Pikemen/MI's

E_T

	26-10-2003 20:57									#23
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I agree with Dominae, nye... the FP maneuver you describe sounds like a lotta time and a lotta shields.

I also agree that we should be REXing like bunnies; pop and units are gonna win this thing.

	27-10-2003 06:44									#24
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This picture has the Palace currently at Apolyton The colored rings are the distances out to 15 that a city would be if it was at any location.

For all of our cities, their distance from the capitol:
Incensity - 2
Ming, BFC and Banana - 3
Hispanica - 4
Lux - 5
Tripoli, Big Bend, Karina and HoD - 7
Possum - 8
Cuido - 9
Nevermore - 12
Equil - 15

New Possum would be at 9 and New Cuido at 10



As you can see, it is better spread out to the east and west than North and south. But the reason that it looks like a squashed Elipse, is because of the tile shape.

MoI E_T

	27-10-2003 19:51									#25
	Having the FP at Karina Full PM-box? Change here!

with the plan to have the FP built in Karina, the distances will be:

With the Palace having been moved

Lux - 2
Big Bend - 3
Ming, New Cuildo, New Possum & HoD - 4
Banana - 5
Hisp, Tripoli- 6
[Apolyton, possibly not rebuilt] - 7
BFC - 8
Insencity - 9
Equil - 11



While the Palace is still in Apolyton AND after the FP s built in Karina; Ming, Inc, BFC, Banana & Hisp will still be Palace Centric, while the other cities will be FP centric.

MoI E_T

	27-10-2003 21:39									#26
	The Palace Placement in Old GCA lands Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

First off, we have no Idea as to if GCA will Abandon Catchopolus. They have the Great Library there now and just might destroy it to keep it out of our hands. If this happens, then we have an option that we should take advantage of

First off, here is a Picture with the Ring tool showing the Palace at Catchopolis



And here is a Picture showing a New Catopolis that is 7 from the old one (still on a river).



I will show in another post, that it would behoove us to have the Capitol at the new location because it allows for better city placement around the New Capitol.

And IF GCA doesn't Abandon Catchopolis, we should look at moving the city ourselves.

More later.

MoI E_T

	28-10-2003 00:42									#27
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I agree with E_T's plan.

We shouldn't undertake a large REXing effort until the FP (and probably the Palace jump) is completed. We should not waste population on building cities 20 tiles from a palace or deep in the jungle where they don't produce anything.

We need a balanced approach to improving our cities while still expanding. Keep in mind we have a GA on the horizon and it won't do us much good if our core is all size 3 and 4 and we have a bunch of cities in jungle and completely corrupt.

	28-10-2003 01:24									#28
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Now, before we continue, there is one thing that needs to be addressed. It's the resently reveiled Palace/FP Rank Exploit. I don't have a link to the pertenant details but here is basically now it works:

The rank (for the number of cities part of the Corruption calculations) of a city that is FP centric depends on how many cities are closer to the Palace, from the same distance.

What that means, is if you have 4 cities that are at 2, 3, 3 and 4 distances from the Palace and you have a city that is distance 4 from the FP (nothing else matters for the FP because of this bug), then that city is at a rank of 4. If there are as many cities that you can pack into the 4 ring (and closer) around the FP, then that city still has a rank of 4.

The converse is true, if there were no cities closer to the palace than that distance 4 city is to the FP, then that city is now at a rank of 1. Also, all of the cities (if you again pack that 4 ring), will all be a rank of 1.

The main exploit comes from moving the Palace to a remote location and then having all of the rest of the cities (which are around your FP) enjoy a Minumum of corruption, because they are all at a Rank of 1.

Moving our Palace to the GCA lands might be intepreted as using this exploit. Conversly, If we pack that area with a lot of cities, we will make the FP cities suffer because of their Increased Rank.

But no matter what we do, we will have to balance both, so that we don't become blamed with using a known bug/exploit, but also not to make our other cities not useful to us in any way.

MoI E_T

P.S. if someone could provide the links to the exploit discussions on CFC and I think Poly, I would be very appricieated. You can edit this post if you want, to put them in.

E_T

	28-10-2003 05:54									#29
	General Overall City Placement Plan #1 Increase the size of your Attachments

The sites are numbered from 1 to 31. These Include Cities like BoP, which might not be there and would require us to resettle it. The number is NOT indicative of when they would be settled, they are just for referance purposes.

[EDIT] site #15 has been removed from consideration, so ignore it on this picture



MoI E_T

Last edited by E_T on 14-12-2003 at 22:26

	28-10-2003 07:00									#30
	Phase I: Now Until the end of the war Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

Proposed Plan for Phase I

We secure the Silks and the area around the Furs. If need be, we can use a Colony until the borders expand from the New Palace in New Catch OR we can rush build a Temple in BoP or New Catch. I'm more for the Colony myself. If anything, we can use one of the workers that are down south OR the one from Nevermore.

Sites 1 & 2 are the New Locations of Possum and Cuido. I've moved Cuido (from it's originally planned spot) to give Karina a bit more room, plus to have that other Iron available. The settlers for these are coming from the cities that are being moved.

Site 3 will be a worker and settler pump, but without a Granary. This is nessisary with the corruption that it will have. One of the 3 current settlers (the one that is furtherest away) will go there and build.

Sites 4 & 5 are incase we have to rebuild them. The other 2 settlers that we currently have will head there ASAP.

Sites 6 & 7 will help to secure the Southern Silks and the area around the Furs. These settlers still have to be built.



MoI E_T