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geniemalin
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Needing iron and coal to build Railroad means if you don't have and can't trade for either of them, you're in trouble (as developing through the industrial/modern era basically assumes you have railroads - not to mention the military advantages they convey....)
In the games where I haven't had Coal (I've funnily enough never had a no-iron game) I've been forced to launch a war to get it.
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Arrian
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Kneel before Grog!
Jul 2001
time: 00:32
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I like the idea of scarcity, but perhaps it's been a little overdone? I haven't played enough epic games to really make a judgement on that yet.
I've played as the Maya: iron and horses, but I went a REALLY long way to get iron (and fairly far to get horsies). I only got iron because I blew the AI away in REXing (Monarch level). On a higher difficulty, I would have had horses but no iron (but I also had ivory... and well, we know what that allows).
I played the Iroquois and had horses. I captured iron (archer rush). That game ended up as an Ultimate Power game.
I played another Iroquois game and had both iron and horses on my island (lucky, I know), and by the time other major resources were discovered, I'd conquered large territories off my island. Still, I barely had coal.
My most recent game, as Greece, also provided me with both iron and horses. I had coal, but wouldn't have had it if I hadn't conquered large territories that weren't mine to begin with.
I've done quite a bit of fighting in each game, so I often don't notice shortages of resources. It's iron, horses and maybe ivory that matter the most. With them, you can get the rest.
-Arrian
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Donegeal
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Apolyton's Resident Law Enforcement Officer. Founder of the Glory of War, Champions of Apolyton!
Jul 2002
time: 05:32
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In the games I was talking about, getting RR is not that difficult, you just have to time it right. The first thisng you do when you discover you don't have coal, is look to see if someone has an extra source. You will also need an extra source of Iron somewhere as well if you don't have it (like in my games). If you don't have a trading partner, you have no choice but to fight (Lots of Trebuche/Cannon and Longbowmen  ). If you do have trading partners, bee line for replacable parts IMMEDIATELY!!!!! Note: do not attempt to trade for coal at this time. Once you have gained Replacable Parts, trade tech, Lux or whatever you need to get the vitial Coal and Iron. The reason to wait to get RP is because your workers work twice as fast once you get this tech. You will now have 20 turns to RR as fast as possible. If you have a large empire, use stacks of workers to connect your cities with rails first. Once all your cities have been connected then RR the flat tiles (Desert/Plains/Grass). DO the flat tiles first cause you can rail a flat tile in one turn with 2 native workers (ie, they are the easyist). Once this is accomplished, Rail hills/Mountians in only the productive cities first using stacks of workers. If you start to get close to the 20 turn limit of the deal, break up the stacks and go with one worker per tile to be RR (once the worker starts an action, it won't stop just because the resource ran out, just like production). Using this no Coal/Iron Strat, I have been able to RR my entire empire in 8-12 turns.
Reguarding city Productions, I would recomend switching all builds to Factories immediately (for me it was always all cities because between Palace/FP placement I did not have very many corrupt cities) and I would rush buy as many as you can just before the 20 turn limit is up to start on Coal Plants (if you decide to go with Coal plants that is. I usually go for Hoovers and don't have much need). Once this is all done, or at least started, don't worry about the coal supply running out. Your Factories and Coal plants don't actually need coal to operate, you just need it to start building.
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Snotty
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I really like the resource scarcity. I just won a MP ladder game as Japan having no horses or iron. There was only one of each on my continent and they were held by the other two players. Greece and I trashed the horse guy, and I was faced with the prospect of taking on Greece with only archers! I absolutely had to take him on before he got to feud. Things would have got messy otherwise. Hair raising but exhilarating that I managed to pull it off.
I am a dyed in the wool warmonger so paradoxically it makes it easier for me to tolerate the scarcity.
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petermarkab
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To conserve the apparent scarcity of some strategic resources, but to ensure no civ is too disadvantaged, why not always have as many strategic resources as there are civs, but cluster the resources, in much the same way as luxuries are currently.
This way, a small number of civs can in theory control a lot of the resources, but at the same time, other civs can trade for them. All that remains to be done is for the price demanded by the AI to other AIs, (and all other permutations) is related to the availability of known resources, through map visibility, and the trade screen.
Whaddya think?
regards,
Pete
ps. I've not experienced anything like the resource scarcity described in this thread.
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19-12-2003 03:55
More interesting when there's not enough to go around.
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