20-12-2003 06:18									#1
	RingWraiths vs. Dementors Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

The Nine have entered the Potterverse, searching for the One Ring. They've managed to located it in Azkaban Prision. Who wins?

Dementor
Guards at Azkaban
Emotional leeches
Cause traumatic thoughts in their prey
Tall, dark and ugly


Ringwraiths:
Former men, now servants of Sauron
Invisible (unless you have the ring)
Corporeal
able to sense the Ring


I'm running with the Ringwraiths, like a guy on sdmb said; "Anything LOTR beats anything HP!".

Plus, the RingWraiths might borrow a page from Eowyn and just stab the Dementors "In the Fvcking face"

	20-12-2003 06:45									#2
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I'm not very familiar with Dementors, but it strikes me that Ringwraiths would not be the most succeptible things to "traumatic thoughts." If they are total slaves to Sauron's will, it doesn't seem like any amount of emotional jibber-jabber would faze them.

Besides, there's always the stab-in-the-face factor, and the fact that they are immensely hard to kill.

	20-12-2003 07:11									#3
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Tom Bombadil is really the Witch King.

	20-12-2003 07:23									#4
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Dementors are a bunch of wusses.

	20-12-2003 07:34									#5
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quote: I'm not very familiar with Dementors, but it strikes me that Ringwraiths would not be the most succeptible things to "traumatic thoughts." If they are total slaves to Sauron's will, it doesn't seem like any amount of emotional jibber-jabber would faze them.

Well it isn't exactly traumatic thoughts. They basically inspire hopelessness and dread in their enemies... kind of like the Ringwraiths do.

We aren't exactly sure what the Dementors are. They look kind of like dead men who have magically become holes of dark thoughts.

That and the fact there are more than 9 Dementors (much more) makes me think the Dementors win .

	20-12-2003 07:59									#6
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How are the Dementors going to kill the Ringwraiths? I doubt they have any blades of Westernesse on hand, so it's going to be impossible. And don't tell me you think the Dementors can instill hopelessness in the hearts of wraiths that have no hearts to begin with...

	20-12-2003 08:28									#7
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My theory is that the Ringwraiths can't feel hopelessness. I think Sauron's corruption of them means that they can only feel hate, greed, and violence as long as his power sustains them.

	20-12-2003 10:15									#8
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quote: How are the Dementors going to kill the Ringwraiths? I doubt they have any blades of Westernesse on hand, so it's going to be impossible.

Have you ever heard of a Dementor actually dying? For all we know they might be invincible (at least to semi-conventional weapons... maybe there is some spell out there) .

	20-12-2003 10:16									#9
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui Well it isn't exactly traumatic thoughts. They basically inspire hopelessness and dread in their enemies... kind of like the Ringwraiths do. We aren't exactly sure what the Dementors are. They look kind of like dead men who have magically become holes of dark thoughts. That and the fact there are more than 9 Dementors (much more) makes me think the Dementors win .

Ah, But Dementors have never been seen using weapons, and are scared of silvery animals. Whereas Nazghul can ride on down on Fell-beasts and stab them in the face with Morghul Blades.

In addition, I highly doubt there are that many happy thoughts the Ringwraiths have left, so the Dementor's own power would be, well, useless. And there is the distinct lack of Soul.

PLus I bet the Old Witch-King could whip up some spells that would make Dumbledummy and He-who-is-a-idjit wet their pants.

(ROTK and PoA trailor is a deadly combo)

	20-12-2003 10:18									#10
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Why wouldn't the Dementors be working for Sauron with him being the supreme evil and all?

	20-12-2003 10:20									#11
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They are still carrying out their duties as Guards, and are too shocked to see Lookalikes-but-more-badass on Fell Beasts with Swords they can use to to stab people with. And scream and scare them.

* Lonestar envisions Nazghul dive-bombing Dementors, and scooping them up.

	20-12-2003 10:22									#12
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quote: are scared of silvery animals.

Is a Patronus actually an animal?

quote: Whereas Nazghul can ride on down on Fell-beasts and stab them in the face with Morghul Blades.

Would that kill them? How do we know?

quote: PLus I bet the Old Witch-King could whip up some spells that would make Dumbledummy and He-who-is-a-idjit wet their pants.

If Dumbledore was in LOTR, the Ring would have been destroyed in 100 pages .

	20-12-2003 10:29									#13
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui Is a Patronus actually an animal?

It's at least a facsimile of one!

quote: Would that kill them? How do we know?

Weapons forged in the City of the Dead? I suppose it has a better chance than a Ginsu.

quote: If Dumbledore was in LOTR, the Ring would have been destroyed in 100 pages .

Yeah? Let's compare the Premier Wizards of Middle-Earth and the Potterverse.

(courtesy of grudge-match.com)

First Book
Dumbledore managed to set a little kid in front of somebody's door without dropping him.
Gandalf discovered the origin of the most evil and powerful object in the history of anything, started a quest to destroyed it, and killed a demon of heinous and untold power.

Second Book
Dumbledore went away on business just when he could actually be useful.
Gandalf came back from the dead, mustered an army of walking trees, made the head of the Order of Wizards look like a little sissyboy, and generally kicked ass.

Third Book
Dumbledore aided the escape of a convicted criminal.

Gandalf fended off the Dark Lord's most powerful lieutenant at the doors of the greatest city on (Middle-)Earth. He saved the life of the heir to the Stewardship of the biggest damned kingdom ever, assembled a vast army which marched on the Dark Lord himself, and managed to hold off the largest army in the history of anything by standing on a hill virtually by himself long enough for the Dark Lord to cork off.

Fourth Book
Dumbledore had a lieutenant and servant of evil right in front of him for a year. It took him that long to notice, even though the dude was in the guise of his best friend.
We don't know what Gandalf was up to. But even sipping pina coladas at the country club would be more impressive than THAT.


Hmmm.... I'd say the actions speak for themselves.

	20-12-2003 10:31									#14
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Zing!

	20-12-2003 10:38									#15
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quote: It's at least a facsimile of one!

Doesn't mean it has anything do with animals. Dementors can't see. They react to the pure goodness of the Patronus.

quote: Weapons forged in the City of the Dead? I suppose it has a better chance than a Ginsu.

But may have no effect.

quote: Let's compare the Premier Wizards of Middle-Earth and the Potterverse.

Yes, let's. Before TSS, Dumbledore was well acknowledged as the most powerful wizard, at the very least, in England. In TSS, he created an amazingy brilliant trap to keep TSS hidden (and it would have continued to be if Harry hadn't come upon it). In CoS, he once again allows Harry to be tested... you wonder why he knows everything at the end of the books... not like he wasn't paying attention. In PoA, he helped an innocent man escape. In GoF, anyone can be confused by the Polyjuice Potion, especially by one as smart as Barty Crouch. In OotP, Dumbledore was in charge of the Order of the Phoenix and battled Voldemort in a momentus battle and would have killed him nicely had he not been linked to Harry.

You have obviously never read OotP, or else you'd know why Dumbledore (nor no one else) can kill Voldemort aside from Harry. Therefore, it'd be pointless for him to do anything.

Once again, he knows all the happens. I don't remember Gandalf being omnipressent. In fact, Gandalf died while facing the Balrog. Dumbledore would have destroyed him, or that the least, disapparated and apparated on the bridge as the Balrog fell to the bottom.

	20-12-2003 10:48									#16
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Lonestar

The problem (for me) is that I'm not sure what the Dementors are exactly. The Nazgul were former kings of Haradistan or mighty sorcerers of the East. I can't imagine them being defeated by walking depression miasmas.

	20-12-2003 10:49									#17
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quote: Yeah? Let's compare the Premier Wizards of Middle-Earth and the Potterverse.

	20-12-2003 10:50									#18
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I pciture an exchange between the two as something like this:

Dumlbedore: Could you let me get my wand? I seem to have left it over there.
Gandalf: YOU SHALL NOT PASS!!
Dumbledore: No need to yell. Here, fight Harry for a while. I have a meeting to attend... at the... somewhere else...
Harry: Beware... I've defeated Voldemort three times.
(elsewhere, Voldemort has become the Balrog's indentured servant)
Gandalf: You're not even worth using magic on. (Hits him over the head with his staff)
Dumbledore: Wait, you're not supposed to do that! (begins mumbling spells)
Gandalf: Shut up! (Points staff, kills Dumbledore


Gandalf is an Order of Magnitude beyond Dumbledore. His a Fricking Angel, man. At the (real) Battle of Pelennor Fields Gandalf smote the Armies of Mordor Good. ( or was it at the Battle of the Black Gate, point is, he held them a damn long time)

Dumbledore, lets see...well, we know he can knock out multiple people at once, but so can Gandalf (with Chain Lightening!). He can Duel an evil wizard...so can Gandalf...

Yep, I'll run with accomplishments here.

	20-12-2003 10:51									#19
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quote: Dumbledore would have destroyed him, or that the least, disapparated and apparated on the bridge as the Balrog fell to the bottom.

For the last time, you cannot apparate within the Mines of Moria! Honestly, haven't any of you read Moria: A History?

	20-12-2003 10:53									#20
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quote: Moria: A History

What is that?

	20-12-2003 10:54									#21
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Both a made-up book and a reference you obviously didn't get...

	20-12-2003 10:56									#22
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I'm going to bed. But this isn't over Imran,
not by a longshot.

	20-12-2003 11:04									#23
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quote: Originally posted by Drake Tungsten Both a made-up book and a reference you obviously didn't get...

Oh, one of those things. I see.

	20-12-2003 13:15									#24
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Ringwraiths. But I contend that Dumbledore could take Gandalf any day.

	20-12-2003 13:15									#25
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quote: Originally posted by Drake Tungsten quote: Dumbledore would have destroyed him, or that the least, disapparated and apparated on the bridge as the Balrog fell to the bottom. For the last time, you cannot apparate within the Mines of Moria! Honestly, haven't any of you read Moria: A History?

	20-12-2003 13:22									#26
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[sluggy]ringwraiths can run, and therefore win[/sluggy]

	20-12-2003 13:29									#27
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quote: you cannot apparate within the Mines of Moria!

Of course you can .

quote: Gandalf is an Order of Magnitude beyond Dumbledore. His a Fricking Angel, man.

And Dumbledore is the most power creature in the Potterverse... sounds akin to an angel to me.

quote: He can Duel an evil wizard...so can Gandalf...

Gandalf lost to his evil wizard, IIRC .

... btw, you don't need a wand to cast magic if you are powerful enough. The best spells come with a wand, but they are easily ready.

I'd take Dumbledore over Gandalf.

quote: ut I contend that Dumbledore could take Gandalf any day.

	20-12-2003 13:44									#28
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Are we talking Gandalf the Grey, or Gandalf the White?

SP

	20-12-2003 18:17									#29
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui Yes, let's. Before TSS, Dumbledore was well acknowledged as the most powerful wizard, at the very least, in England. In TSS, he created an amazingy brilliant trap to keep TSS hidden (and it would have continued to be if Harry hadn't come upon it). In CoS, he once again allows Harry to be tested... you wonder why he knows everything at the end of the books... not like he wasn't paying attention. In PoA, he helped an innocent man escape. In GoF, anyone can be confused by the Polyjuice Potion, especially by one as smart as Barty Crouch. In OotP, Dumbledore was in charge of the Order of the Phoenix and battled Voldemort in a momentus battle and would have killed him nicely had he not been linked to Harry. You have obviously never read OotP, or else you'd know why Dumbledore (nor no one else) can kill Voldemort aside from Harry. Therefore, it'd be pointless for him to do anything. Once again, he knows all the happens. I don't remember Gandalf being omnipressent. In fact, Gandalf died while facing the Balrog. Dumbledore would have destroyed him, or that the least, disapparated and apparated on the bridge as the Balrog fell to the bottom.

Yech, an omnipressent deus ex machina? Thanks - You've cleared up any thoughts I had that Harry Potter might actually be worth reading.

	20-12-2003 19:48									#30
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my vote is with gandalf and the ringwraiths over dumbledore and the dementors.

why?

gandalf's got a longer beard, and a staff. dumbledore's got a shorter beard, and a wand.

the ringwraiths have huge fellbeast mounts. the dementors just kinda float.