23-12-2003 01:17									#31
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

I'd suggest a 48 hour 'play clock'. If we can provide reliable refs for all games, they would play and send the turn on. Otherwise, it would be a disqualification, and a replacement would be drawn from the pool of players waiting for the next tournement, or it could be a second chance for someone already eliminated.

If we make all games 4 players on tiny, there's no need to debate land size, just wait for enough participants to join and fill all available slots (16?). Having one outright winner and a second, point based qualifier, we would have a 3 round tourney of 4 player games. Winners could be 'seeded' higher and be given preference of Civ choice over point qulaifiers.

I'm not sure I understand your point about barbarians either Sir Ralph. Are you talking about different advantages between Civs (ie, free slaves for Mayans, no goodies for expansionist)?

	23-12-2003 02:41									#32
	Tired of ads?

This is getting complicated. Would someone (anyone) like to make a simple proposal we can all understand and go with?

	23-12-2003 02:55									#33
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

I agree with Sir Ralph. I think the Barbarian level should be the same for all games not random. It can have a far bigger effect on score than the other factors.

	23-12-2003 03:40									#34
	Tired of ads?

why not random everything on a small map, 6 players, and whoever wins is the champion of the PBEM tournament?

we could start it right now.

	23-12-2003 03:48									#35
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

Should we include 'locked alliances' ??

	23-12-2003 04:00									#36
	Support Apolyton

aren't locked alliances for AI stuff? there's going to be no AIs i thought

	23-12-2003 04:36									#37
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

I think I'll take a stab at this.

I vote for Raging Barbs and standard Map all across the board. Should this Map be Set up and approved by Whomever the judges turn out to be??

* E_T thinks a Tournament requires judges...

Also, NO EXPLOITS!!!

E_T

	23-12-2003 04:41									#38
	hmmmm Put an end to popups!

so how much players still missing?
i think we should get past the rules phase more fast.....

	23-12-2003 05:40									#39
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

quote: Also, NO EXPLOITS!!!

Define exploit ?!

	23-12-2003 16:02									#40
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

quote: Originally posted by GhengisFarb I agree with Sir Ralph. I think the Barbarian level should be the same for all games not random. It can have a far bigger effect on score than the other factors.

Yes, barbs can have a great effect on scores, but how can this hurt in the games between?

If one games players gets these scores:
1048
776
518
175

And in another game they get lower scores because of low barb activity they get:
423
185
111
100

But how can this hurt the tournament?
The winner from each game goes into the finals, not worrying about how much score the other players in the other games got...




Btw, I've got a huge problem... since I reinstalled WinXP yesterday, I can't get Conquest working... could someone please take a look at my thread in the help section? Otherwise I have to get out of the tournament
Here's the thread:
http://apolyton.net/forums/showthre...638#post2583516

	23-12-2003 20:39									#41
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

quote: why not random everything on a small map, 6 players, and whoever wins is the champion of the PBEM tournament?

We have more than 6 players who want in.

quote: Would someone (anyone) like to make a simple proposal we can all understand and go with?

The simplest, fairest tournement structure would be four 4-player 'qualifiers', a single winner from each one competing in the championship 4-player final. Why mess around with points at all?

quote: ADG alva GhengisFarb Sir Ralph notyoueither smellymummy Paddy the Scot Rommel2D rogerurb Tarquinius CerberusIV

E_T

Is everyone still interested? Can we drum up 4 more players? How about refs/judges?

Is there anything we can agree on yet? :-/

	23-12-2003 21:08									#42
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Let's start with the first vote: Tournament or not?

Should we have it this way:
4 games, 4 players each game (# of players to be discussed)
The winner of each game will go to the final (The winner is the first player to get a victory of some sort, based on Civ-types of Victory). The final is played by 4 players... the winner of this game is the ultimate C3C PBEM player

Vote now: Yes/No


My vote for Yes

	23-12-2003 23:26									#43
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

yes

	23-12-2003 23:41									#44
	Put an end to popups!

Yes/No

	24-12-2003 02:54									#45
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Yes (I think)

	24-12-2003 16:21									#46
	Full PM-box? Change here!

Aye

	24-12-2003 16:49									#47
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

I will join the tournament if all three of the conditions below are met:

- In each particular game play at least 4 players
- The default player limits apply (4 on tiny, 5 or 6 on small, 7 or 8 on standard)
- No AIs

	24-12-2003 19:55									#48
	Get a bigger avatar today!

looks like theres enough players now to start.. should we just post our emails now and someone could start the game?

	25-12-2003 02:28									#49
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

We have 6 people that agree (more or less) on a four-player game, two round, single elimination tournement. We still need 10 more players to fill in all the games, plus perhaps someone to referee/judge.

We also need to agree on game specifics before starting. I haven't seen any objections to the following:
>Tiny world
>No AI
>Random settings for everything except land mass and barbarians

Points to hammer out:
>If random is no good for barbarians, what would be best?
Raging sounds like a good way to have some computer opponents without any diplomacy exploits.

>What victory conditions will we have?
Would there be any problems with the default rules?

>How do we determine land mass?
Different land masses would probably produce differently paced games. It would be best to have all first-round games finish as close to the same time as possible. I'd suggest all four should be Pangea. (This could be changed for the championship game.)

>How are civs picked/assigned?

>Play-what-you-get starts, or multiple starts with a group vote?

>?

Last edited by Rommel2D on 25-12-2003 at 02:33

	25-12-2003 17:17									#50
	Tired of ads?

And as mentioned earlier... I'm still not ready to begin any tournament... nobody has any clue on what could be wrong with my installation...

quote: Originally posted by Rommel2D >If random is no good for barbarians, what would be best?

I still go for random... this doesn't change the overall tournament anyway

quote: Originally posted by Rommel2D >What victory conditions will we have?

Just default...

quote: Originally posted by Rommel2D >How do we determine land mass?

I'd go with random, but pangea is fine with me

quote: Originally posted by Rommel2D >How are civs picked/assigned?

Not sure... random would probably be too unbalancing I guess!?!

	29-12-2003 05:15									#51
	Put an end to popups!

lets start...

Let's get someone to make a tiny Map, have them look it over for fairness and then we all use the same map for the first round.

I say Raging Barbs....

And I can deal with a Random Civ, as long as everyone else is also random....

And Pangea is fine, too.

E_T

	29-12-2003 05:25									#52
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

If you guys still need a judge/ref., I'd be willing to volunteer.

	29-12-2003 05:50									#53
	Remove this text

Fantastic, Welcome Aboard OctX. Yes, we need a judge/ref for this.

E_T

	29-12-2003 06:32									#54
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

If you need another player, I'm willing!

I can easily play one turn a night until the summer anyway (then work committments and holidays kick in).

I like raging barbarians, otherwise any rules are fine with me.

	29-12-2003 06:45									#55
	Tired of ads?

quote: If you guys still need a judge/ref., I'd be willing to volunteer.

Thanks Octavian. Have you played enough Conquests yet to have a good feel for the new Civs? If you generate a map on a tiny pangea, pick four roughly equal Civs, and make sure starting points and resources look Ok, we could use it for all four first round games.

I wouldn't mind random barbs, but I'd slightly prefer raging.

Most people don't seem very eager to make suggestions and/or comments about the tournement. Maybe everyone's distracted by the holidays? Hopefully if we start it, they will come...


We have:
smellymummy
GhengisFarb
CerberusIV
Rommel2D
Sir Ralph
E_T
[edit:] Soltz
ready for games, with ADG's status pending technical problems.
[edit:]One more will give us enough for two games.

Octavian X could pick four random players, or we could go with the first four to respond now. Anyone want to give more input?

	29-12-2003 06:57									#56
	Me too Put an end to popups!

Count me in too mate!
Roger Urb [/email]rogerurb@netvisao.pt[/email]

Last edited by rogerurb on 29-12-2003 at 15:49

	29-12-2003 06:59									#57
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

quote: Originally posted by Rommel2D [edit:]One more will give us enough for two games.

Is it too late to join up with you guys? If not, then yes, I would be interested in this.

	29-12-2003 07:01									#58
	Inflate your Upload Space

if my email is needed here it is

sm at inethighway dot com

when can we start?

	29-12-2003 16:14									#59
	Tired of ads?

Wittlich >> Seems like you'll be joining the 3rd game... and hopefully I will too

Here's the players for the first two games:

Game 1:
smellymummy
CerberusIV
Sir Ralph
Soltz

Game 2:
GhengisFarb
Rommel2D
E_T
rogerurb (GMT)

From which timezone are you guys?

Last edited by Adagio on 29-12-2003 at 16:22

	29-12-2003 16:16									#60
	Portugal here Remove this text

so my timezone is GMT=00:00