21-12-2003 00:23									#1
	Blood for Oil Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

One lie that the right has sought to purport is that we are not in the middle of an oil war.

The facts:
Oilproduction in the U.S has fallen 30 percent since 1970. The oil production in the UK Northsea oilfields is going to fall severely in the coming years.Until 2030 the demand for oil will be 30 percent higher than it is today.

While the Iraqi adventure has recieved a lot of media attention, Bush and Blair have quietly moved in to take control of the West-African oilfields.

However the one surefire proof that the oil business is nervous is that Shell and BP is currently investing heavily in sustainable energy solutions.

	21-12-2003 00:27									#2
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

Latest in a line of uninformed dumbasses.
Get your facts straight, kid.

	21-12-2003 00:28									#3
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

I'd like to agree with you, but you're speaking as a raving lunatic, you're not giving sources (you can never have enough of 'em), and you're using shaky logic in your last claim (about Shell and BP). Who knows if they're not just good 'ol fellows trying to find envirofriendly sources? Eh. They probably are nervous, but it's not enough to base your argument on. I'll bet a few of the horse buggy investors started investing in automobiles too, does that make them nervous or just good investors?

	21-12-2003 00:32									#4
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

Here, son. I even went to a damned Russkie source for you.
Don't EVEN try calling it a devil-Republican source.



The U.S currently imports a small amount of crude oil from Iraq. In November 2002, Iraq supplied 380,000 barrels per day of crude oil to the U.S. For the entire year, Iraq supplied about 450,000 barrels per day to the U.S. or less than 3 percent of U.S. oil consumption. Iraq provides roughly the same percentage of total world oil consumption.

http://www.russianoil.ru/eng_news.asp?pid=1351




Now, what other mistakes would you like me to clear up for you?

	21-12-2003 00:35									#5
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

No the thing is. If oil is safe, then why would oil companies invest in sustainable energy?

When people claimed that this war was about oil, the rightwing liars went out and claimed "no, the oil is safe, we've got plenty oil here."

	21-12-2003 00:36									#6
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

Lie eh?

THERE IS OIL IN IRAQ!!!! Is there anyone here who didn't know this, anyone? Of course it is an oil war, just like it is a humaitarioan war, a war of liberation, a war agains terror, and a war against dictators. Bush, Powell, Rumsfeld stated almost from the begining that oil was imoportant. It simply wssn't the issue they leaned on most. One of their first policy agreemenst on the coming war was how to deal with the oil. And considering that oil is what will eventually pay for Iraqi reconstruction, I think it was very much on their minds, especially if it will increase world oil supply and reduce prices WORLDWIDE!!!!

But since Iraq is of course ONLY about one issue, name me another war that had only one motive at its heart.

-Pat

	21-12-2003 00:39									#7
	Remove this text

oops

	21-12-2003 00:40									#8
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

Ok. Now you say that the war is about oil. Why did they not say that before the war. No it was consistently refused that the War was about oil. And to support that they said "we've got plenty of oil."

	21-12-2003 00:50									#9
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

They never said oil wasn't a factor Tripledoc, just that it wasn't the only or overriding factor.

The Reps have always argued big L litle O (Liberation/Oil), left argue big O little L. And since both sides are politicials and each is scewing the data, it is probobly somewhere in the middle.

-Pat

	21-12-2003 00:55									#10
	Put an end to popups!

quote: Originally posted by SlowwHand Here, son. Now, what other mistakes would you like me to clear up for you?

The fact that youre not his Dad would be a start

	21-12-2003 00:57									#11
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

quote: Originally posted by reds4ever The fact that youre not his Dad would be a start

	21-12-2003 00:57									#12
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

quote: No the thing is. If oil is safe, then why would oil companies invest in sustainable energy?

Curiosity. Perhaps they're seeing if a highly-refined wind or solar or hydrogen etc solution would be more profitable than oil? Never thought about that did you?

	21-12-2003 01:00									#13
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

The development of interest in West African oil hasn't been exactly "hush-hush," Tripledoc.

It's been covered in the media frequently ... if I remember right, either Knight Ridder or The Associated Press had a special series of articles detailing this interest back in February or March. There's been other stories as well ... so the information is there; just because you and others don't always take the time to read it doesn't mean it's some grand conspiracy on the part of Bush and Blair.

Last I heard, the United States was still in negotiations with various West African nations to allow for a U.S. naval base.

Gatekeeper

	21-12-2003 01:37									#14
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

quote: Originally posted by mrmitchell Curiosity. Perhaps they're seeing if a highly-refined wind or solar or hydrogen etc solution would be more profitable than oil? Never thought about that did you?

perhaps

	21-12-2003 05:30									#15
	Put an end to popups!

quote: Originally posted by Tripledoc No the thing is. If oil is safe, then why would oil companies invest in sustainable energy?

Anybody remotely interested and knowledgable about the petrochemical industry can tell you that over the past decade, if not longer, oil companies are changing their approach and attitude towards their business - they're not just "oil" companies but "energy" companies. Given this, it is not surprising that they are expanding their current markets into other sources of energy.

Cite on the North Sea quote?

	21-12-2003 05:41									#16
	Increase the size of your Attachments

quote: Originally posted by JohnT Cite on the North Sea quote?

UK Department of Trade and Industry.

	21-12-2003 05:43									#17
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

Isn't this your fourth thread?

	21-12-2003 05:46									#18
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

http://www.eia.doe.gov/emeu/cabs/northsea.html

A pretty good analysis of the N. Sea oil situation for anybody who cares about such things.

	21-12-2003 05:47									#19
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

Yeah, but don't close this one, please. I like oil discussions.

Take it off my quota if you may.

	21-12-2003 05:57									#20
	Support Apolyton

If the USA wanted to invade a country for oil, it would have inveaded Venuzuala, not Iraq. We were getting several times the oil from them that we were getting from Iraq. It is closer and otherwsie much easier to reach than Iraq. It was having a goverment crises. Around half of its people were begging for us to intervene. QED.

	21-12-2003 05:58									#21
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by JohnT Yeah, but don't close this one, please. I like oil discussions. Take it off my quota if you may.

His other thread was closed... and he has been sent the traditional PM warning him not to start any new threads for a few days.

	21-12-2003 06:11									#22
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

I've no doubt that oil was a big factor in invading Iraq. Strategically speaking, stability in the largest oil producing region in the world is an important thing for the US. The Bush administration sees Iraq as, among other things, the key to stability in that region, however misguided that opinion may or may not be.

	21-12-2003 06:13									#23
	Put an end to popups!

quote: Originally posted by Ming His other thread was closed... and he has been sent the traditional PM warning him not to start any new threads for a few days.

Thanks.

Nice to see we're keeping up with the holiday traditions. Eggnog, a Xmas tree, and a warning PM. Sweeeet.

	21-12-2003 06:20									#24
	Get a bigger avatar today!

quote: Originally posted by Lefty Scaevola If the USA wanted to invade a country for oil, it would have inveaded Venuzuala, not Iraq.

Actually a coup was attempted in 2002 to prevent Hugo Chavez from nationalising the Venezuelan oil, or impose price controls.

	21-12-2003 06:42									#25
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

yeah, and it was done by business in Venuzula and the Bush Administration denounced the coup.

	21-12-2003 06:48									#26
	Increase Your PM Length

not faring so well Tripledoc....

	21-12-2003 06:51									#27
	Inflate your Upload Space

quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui yeah, and it was done by business in Venuzula and the Bush Administration denounced the coup.

Not exactly. The New York Times approved it. And the coup was actually traced to Colin Powell. Chavez was abducted by CIA agents, but released when the coup failed when the military choose to back Chavez instead of the neo-liberal coup.

	21-12-2003 06:53									#28
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

quote: The New York Times approved it. And the coup was actually traced to Colin Powell. Chavez was abducted by CIA agents

Watch out fo the black helicopters.

	21-12-2003 06:56									#29
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

Come on. This is common knowledge. Accusing me of wearing a tinfoil hat, is that all you can come up with?

	21-12-2003 07:05									#30
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

In regards to the N Sea oil production, this quote from Hubberts Peak is telling:

quote: The failure of the oil majors to sustain drilling and investment in new projects during the oil price slump of late 1977 through 1999 is blamed for the shock fall.

http://www.hubbertpeak.com/northsea/

Oil exploration and production is extremely price sensitive - except for wildcatters, there is a price where the exploration for new sources of petroleum just doesn't happen. This is especially true of oil found in terrain that is extreme and harsh - two words commonly associated with the N. Sea.

Given that the price of oil has been so low over the past 20 years, it is not at all surprising to find that N. Sea production is peaking and that exploration has ground to a halt. However if the price rose to (an adjusted) $35-40 a barrel as it did in the late 70s/early 80s, I can almost guarantee you that more reserves in that notoriously expensive and difficult environment will be found and that production will increase to form yet another peak (and then people will again worry about the N. Sea running out of oil).