31-12-2003 10:17									#31
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quote: Originally posted by Makeo The Egyptian government is in full support of the Carthaginians struggle to reclaim land rightfully theirs. The aggressive resettlement program adopted by the Spanish must be halted immediately and North African land now in Spanish hands returned to the Carthaginians. Makeozacoatl.

Hannibal is greatly heartened by this support, my friend.

I do not know if a peaceful solution can be found but the bottom line for the Carthaginians (or Chartagian as the Romans refer to us...) is that all land in the Northern African sector belongs to us. A map may be provided soon. It is recognised that the Spanish have expended resources in establishing a city in NW Africa so some type of deal is possible but the city must be handed to Carthaginian control.

Anything our allies can do to bring about a peaceful resolution to this issue is warmly welcomed.

	31-12-2003 11:58									#32
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(Actually my post before was a rip of final fantasy and fire emblem mainly, it may have had the tune of LotR, but hey I'm the gauls.)

As far as Spainish settlement of Northern Africa, I see a common problem. Gaul has meet neighbors as well, in lands that could be settled by our own people. Lines are demanded by the foreigners, and beyond which those lines are fertiles feilds which we are to be denied.

We clearly can't support wars for the use of such tactics. If that were the case, Gual would be at war with Spain, Rome, and perhaps Greece. They place cities on our borders and behind which lie lands that we desire. Is it not the same for you? Different perhaps in the details, the qualms of a small stretch of sea, allies with grudes held against and axes to grind, but no will to take directly to arms. Such support may urge some to war.

I see a double standard being held against Spain. Either that, or I should go kick some butt as well. Your opinions on the subject are welcome.

Last edited by Frank Johnson on 31-12-2003 at 13:15

	31-12-2003 15:53									#33
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quote: Originally posted by Frank Johnson As far as Spainish settlement of Northern Africa, I see a common problem. Gaul has meet neighbors as well, in lands that could be settled by our own people. Lines are demanded by the foreigners, and beyond which those lines are fertiles feilds which we are to be denied. We clearly can't support wars for the use of such tactics. If that were the case, Gual would be at war with Spain, Rome, and perhaps Greece. They place cities on our borders and behind which lie lands that we desire. Is it not the same for you? Different perhaps in the details, the qualms of a small stretch of sea, allies with grudes held against and axes to grind, but no will to take directly to arms. Such support may urge some to war. I see a double standard being held against Spain. Either that, or I should go kick some butt as well. Your opinions on the subject are welcome.

I take your point but it hardly seems a reasonable analysis of the situation, particularly given the origins of each civilisation. It seems as though Gaullic thinking is somewhat swayed... you, with your lush river lands and logical borders with Spain and Rome. Spain with lush lands not fully developed.

But, Hannibal can see that continuing this argument would be futile.

The Gauls and Babylonians seem to simply have a position of opposing war; rather than attempting to apply any diplomatic pressure at all on Spain to assist their less well off Carthaginian neighbours. The Gauls position is non sympathetic and it is tough luck for the Carts where the borders fall.

We await Greek opinion on the matter.

	31-12-2003 17:24									#34
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quote: Originally posted by Makeo A Missive from King Makeozacoatl to Consul Hadrianus on behalf of the Egyptian trade consortium. Consul Hadrianus, I feel it would be mutually beneficial to our respective countries and citizens if a trade agreement can be reached. My merchant class is clamouring for trade rights to Sardinae and the market places of Cyprus are crying out for goods. Perhaps we can leave it to our respecitve economic advisors to hammer out the details as the intricate details that seem to fascinate them, frankly, bore me. Makeozacoatl.

Dear King Makeozacoatl,

We will grant full traderights into Sardiniae for our Egyptian friends, no tax will be collected.

Roman merchants are are proclaiming an interest in sending caravans to Cyprus but it will take a while before they will arive. We would like to ask a similar deal be granted for Roman merchants sailing for Cyprus.

Kind Regards
Hadrianus.

Consul of Rome.

	31-12-2003 17:30									#35
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quote: Originally posted by deity Hannibal is greatly heartened by this support, my friend. I do not know if a peaceful solution can be found but the bottom line for the Carthaginians (or Chartagian as the Romans refer to us...) is that all land in the Northern African sector belongs to us. A map may be provided soon. It is recognised that the Spanish have expended resources in establishing a city in NW Africa so some type of deal is possible but the city must be handed to Carthaginian control. Anything our allies can do to bring about a peaceful resolution to this issue is warmly welcomed.

Off course we would like to assist our allies in their time of need

We are willing to forego our claims to reparations and end the naval blockade against Spanish ships if a peacefull agreement can be reached.
This will also mean that we will grant Spain trading rights to Sardiniae at least untill foreign schollars stop flocking to Pisae.

	31-12-2003 17:51									#36
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quote: Originally posted by Frank Johnson As far as Spainish settlement of Northern Africa, I see a common problem. Gaul has meet neighbors as well, in lands that could be settled by our own people. Lines are demanded by the foreigners, and beyond which those lines are fertiles feilds which we are to be denied. We clearly can't support wars for the use of such tactics. If that were the case, Gual would be at war with Spain, Rome, and perhaps Greece. They place cities on our borders and behind which lie lands that we desire. Is it not the same for you? Different perhaps in the details, the qualms of a small stretch of sea, allies with grudes held against and axes to grind, but no will to take directly to arms. Such support may urge some to war. I see a double standard being held against Spain. Either that, or I should go kick some butt as well. Your opinions on the subject are welcome.

Dear Gaulic leader,

We apreciate your concerns about your lands running out, the Roman people are experiencing similar problems with Guals in the west,
Greeks advancing in the east and the seas to our south.

As you can see on your maps Roma major has few resources or rivers and is mainly made up of mountains and hills with barren seas witch provide little food for our fishermen. If we look to the Gaulic maps their homelands seem to be filled with great rivers with lush grasslands at their banks and planty of forrests for hunting and building materials.

In this light we feel that the teritory north of Roma major rightfully belongs to the Roman republic and let us remind our Gaulic friends that this border was decided in mutual agreement between the Gaulic and Roman republics in the threaty of Bern.

But we might have an idea of how our Gaulic friends can satisfy their citizens seemingly unsatiable thirst for land:

Our scouts have found a mountainrange in the east and travellers tell of far-stretched grasslands and rivers running from the slopes untill the eastern end of the world.
We suggest our Gaul friends contact the Greeks and Babylonians who seem to have more knowledge about these lands.

We would be willing to let a band of Gaul settlers cross our lands in search of new lands providing any settlements would be build east of the mountainrange.

Let us make it clear that Rome has no interests in these lands but feel they should be shared by the country's in this worlds with the smallest arible lands.

Kind Regards.
Hadrianus

Consul of the Roman republic.

	31-12-2003 21:20									#37
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Shucks, the Greeks don't have Cypress? Oh well.

	01-01-2004 03:19									#38
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A personal note from Lord Geznikor Whompbukket, recently promoted to Lead Foreign Advisor of Babylon, to the Egyptians:

Lord Makeozacoatl,

I am sorry that we were unable to meet in person. The magnanimous Grottencrotch was, to his chagrin, called away at the last minute on personal business of considerable importance. As we speak, he is abroad in Athens partitioning the territories around the Caspian and Black seas with our just allies, the Greeks. Have you met the Greek ruler? What a character! Fantastic at card tricks, and he makes the best boullabaise in the world!

Grottencrotch has asked me to deliver his thanks for your grand proposal. Although the eastern bank is little more than a poorly fertilized sandbox, I assure you the land will be used to ensure peace and prosperity for both our peoples. Already, two settlements are in place, with plans for 2 more by the mellenium.

His Lordship has also authorized me to open talks regarding potential trade routes between our peoples.

Let's have dinner next week!

Yours,

Geznikor Whompbukket
Office of Foreign Affairs

Last edited by Dylan Baker on 01-01-2004 at 03:35

	01-01-2004 04:46									#39
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Would it be possible for the Babs (and possibly the Romans) to post maps of their partitioning of unclaimed worlds?

	02-01-2004 10:28									#40
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quote: Originally posted by deity Would it be possible for the Babs (and possibly the Romans) to post maps of their partitioning of unclaimed worlds?

News of our explorer's discoveries is en route to Babylon and Athens. Until it arrives, there is little that I can do for the public record.

	02-01-2004 10:58									#41
	On the Carthaginian/Spanish Crisis Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

A personal note from Lord Grottencrotch to Hannibal

My dearest Hannibal,

I am sorry that this letter is so long in reaching you. I am currently abroad in Athens negotiating territorial issues with Ozzy, great ruler of Greece. Twice now I have sent sailors southwest in search of Carthage, and twice ships have been lost at sea. Rumors abound that the unfortunate seamen have been eaten by a giant squid!

But to business. I am quite concerned with the recent events in northwest Africa. Yes, the Spanish have been aggressive in their acquisition of territory, this is beyond dispute. What is also beyond dispute is that you have piggy-bagged your demands for a withdrawal on the heels of an espionage incident that did not involve your civilization. This strikes me as opportunistic, nothing more.

Hannibal, in many ways, geopolitics simply the art of compromise. I am sure, after 3000 years, you have learned this as well as I. Yet, I see no compromise on the table. I see panicked letters on my desk, parchment filled with threats and ultimatums. Yes, the words "peaceful" and "diplomatic" grace their pages, but peace and diplomacy, again, assume compromise. What are you offering?

You are wise and experienced beyond words, a great ruler of a thriving people. Now is the time to act like it.

I remain very truly yours,

Grottencrotch

	02-01-2004 11:29									#42
	Re: On the Carthaginian/Spanish Crisis Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

quote: Originally posted by Dylan Baker A personal note from Lord Grottencrotch to Hannibal My dearest Hannibal, I am sorry that this letter is so long in reaching you. I am currently abroad in Athens negotiating territorial issues with Ozzy, great ruler of Greece. Twice now I have sent sailors southwest in search of Carthage, and twice ships have been lost at sea. Rumors abound that the unfortunate seamen have been eaten by a giant squid! But to business. I am quite concerned with the recent events in northwest Africa. Yes, the Spanish have been aggressive in their acquisition of territory, this is beyond dispute. What is also beyond dispute is that you have piggy-bagged your demands for a withdrawal on the heels of an espionage incident that did not involve your civilization. This strikes me as opportunistic, nothing more. Hannibal, in many ways, geopolitics simply the art of compromise. I am sure, after 3000 years, you have learned this as well as I. Yet, I see no compromise on the table. I see panicked letters on my desk, parchment filled with threats and ultimatums. Yes, the words "peaceful" and "diplomatic" grace their pages, but peace and diplomacy, again, assume compromise. What are you offering? You are wise and experienced beyond words, a great ruler of a thriving people. Now is the time to act like it. I remain very truly yours, Grottencrotch

Reply to Lord Grottencrotch:

No one has heard from the Spanish as yet. If you could bring them to the negotiating table maybe a deal can be worked out?

Already the Romans and Egyptians have stated that NW Africa should be in Carthaginian hands and the Romans have offerred a deal already that is linked to the espionage incident, if you'd care to review your diplomatic papers?

And the Carthaginians are on public notice as saying, "It is recognised that the Spanish have expended resources in establishing a city in NW Africa so some type of deal is possible but the city must be handed to Carthaginian control."

Thanking you for your efforts Grottencrotch.

We look forward to Emperor Zylka's involvement in diplomacy...

	02-01-2004 11:59									#43
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~De Espana, 575ad~

To the fearsome and respected leader of the grandé Roman Empire,

Young Hadrianus; I have just recently come home to much of this international clash so seemingly seamed by our own Spanish swoop. I shan't bore you too much with the details of my leave in which there has been lack of needed reply; but can only ask now your forgiveness for such tardiness and the aforementioned dissapearence of your top scholar Maximus Pompeius.

Yet in truth - I must sadly explain that your brilliant scientist has actually defected to Spain and now hides somewhere in the ghettos of Madrid; prompted only by insanity to remain amongst those shadows. I must assure you that he is currently being sought out by only the best of our Pike Poliza internal affairs forces.

In any case, it seems that while en routine border scout/patrol, a small band of our own men were approached by the research cabinet of Maximus himself; each one as deathly intoxicated as their leader by drink we simply can not arrive at in estimation. They did carry much of a liquid element known only as "la plata tonto" by Ibizan natives.

Their request to stay in our lands was approved by a man who acted well above his authority (one who has been promptly discharged) and a sort of reperation is being constructed beyond what you have asked. We will have dear Maximus found and returned near immediately, along with our own small group of bilingual scholars for permanent residence in Rome. In any case, as the search continues - here is sadly all I can provide for contact with Maxiums; dropped off anonymously at the wrong consolate but included here:

Dear Consul Hadrianas, please excuse me absence, but the lab men and I had tired dearly of that metal stuffs we researched an' played around with and decided on a sunny Spanish beach vacation! These very nice Spanish soldier fellows promise us the vacation we gots too - even bagged us up and carried us to thar beach in leather sacks, where we had wonderful conversation on the military work we did for those Archer divisions. Really nice young men I must reitorate, but I wish they'd stop shifting and turning into Bruscaddo ham before fornicating my Mums on top o' tha great library! Where are ye, Mumsy - I'm on an int'l letter!

Oh but don't worry, we brought some of the stuffs with us to finish up the study maybe in the sun, BUT WE REALLY WANT YOU TO COME ALONG! People keep trying to steal me magic hats so fors now stay here, but not tell where is. They know it and find me then!

Just says that all is lovely, Spain is beautiful with lots of smiling, helpful (yet HAT STEALING) people, I have tons of open fields to chase rabbits & mice in... it's almost like I've truly gone to scholar heaven! That's woy yew should come to!!

Sigh.. In any case, my dearest apolgies for your having to go through reading that. Hearing of you as a stern military man of realistic opinion very much as myself - I must say; what a shame.

So.. I am in a week en route to Roma immediately for discussion of your reimburssment for this embarrassing little mishap. I hope you enjoy the world's finest merlot and "entertainment" entourages of young hispanic women.

Yet for now I move on to addressing the last issue of importance in today's pile; that of an apparent land help claim from our wonderful Gaullic neighbours alike. Since my main objective in the next few work months is to work towards a sort of "Triangle of the Romances" Economic/Science relationship; I would ask your consideration in what we can do to help strengthen The Gaulls position for growth in the next while.

Oh, correct. There's also apparently a Carthaginian dispute regarding a sort of contract they had made up and signed on their own to deal with.. my apologies if this little itch on the back holds my arrival up a few days. I'm really quite good at scrathing them in general, but only when I can reach - you know?

Do not hesitate to contact me on private express mail.
General Zylka

	02-01-2004 14:00									#44
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this seems cool

I haven't played CIv2 iona while

Jon Miller

	02-01-2004 17:02									#45
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quote: Originally posted by Zylka ~De Espana, 575ad~ To the fearsome and respected leader of the grandé Roman Empire, Young Hadrianus; I have just recently come home to much of this international clash so seemingly seamed by our own Spanish swoop. I shan't bore you too much with the details of my leave in which there has been lack of needed reply; but can only ask now your forgiveness for such tardiness and the aforementioned dissapearence of your top scholar Maximus Pompeius. Yet in truth - I must sadly explain that your brilliant scientist has actually defected to Spain and now hides somewhere in the ghettos of Madrid; prompted only by insanity to remain amongst those shadows. I must assure you that he is currently being sought out by only the best of our Pike Poliza internal affairs forces. In any case, it seems that while en routine border scout/patrol, a small band of our own men were approached by the research cabinet of Maximus himself; each one as deathly intoxicated as their leader by drink we simply can not arrive at in estimation. They did carry much of a liquid element known only as "la plata tonto" by Ibizan natives. Their request to stay in our lands was approved by a man who acted well above his authority (one who has been promptly discharged) and a sort of reperation is being constructed beyond what you have asked. We will have dear Maximus found and returned near immediately, along with our own small group of bilingual scholars for permanent residence in Rome. In any case, as the search continues - here is sadly all I can provide for contact with Maxiums; dropped off anonymously at the wrong consolate but included here: [b][i]Dear Consul Hadrianas, please excuse me absence, but the lab men and I had tired dearly of that metal stuffs we researched an' played around with and decided on a sunny Spanish beach vacation! These very nice Spanish soldier fellows promise us the vacation we gots too - even bagged us up and carried us to thar beach in leather sacks, where we had wonderful conversation on the military work we did for those Archer divisions. Really nice young men I must reitorate, but I wish they'd stop shifting and turning into Bruscaddo ham before fornicating my Mums on top o' tha great library! Where are ye, Mumsy - I'm on an int'l letter! Oh but don't worry, we brought some of the stuffs with us to finish up the study maybe in the sun, BUT WE REALLY WANT YOU TO COME ALONG! People keep trying to steal me magic hats so fors now stay here, but not tell where is. They know it and find me then! Just says that all is lovely, Spain is beautiful with lots of smiling, helpful (yet HAT STEALING) people, I have tons of open fields to chase rabbits & mice in... it's almost like I've truly gone to scholar heaven! That's woy yew should come to!! [i][b]

I suggest General Zylka takes a good look at his own inteligence agencies as these men were clearly drugged by Spanish infiltrators and lured into Spain with promisses of girls, drugs and non-stop party's.
We checked this letter with family and close friends of Maximus Pompeius and they all agreed these were not his words but the words of an imposter, either that or Maximus has gone completely insain.

quote: Sigh.. In any case, my dearest apolgies for your having to go through reading that. Hearing of you as a stern military man of realistic opinion very much as myself - I must say; what a shame. So.. I am in a week en route to Roma immediately for discussion of your reimburssment for this embarrassing little mishap. I hope you enjoy the world's finest merlot and "entertainment" entourages of young hispanic women.

We await your arivel to hear your proposal.
Please make sure you arive by land though as we cannot get the message to our fleet commanders in time to let you pass so they will follow previous orders......

quote: Yet for now I move on to addressing the last issue of importance in today's pile; that of an apparent land help claim from our wonderful Gaullic neighbours alike. Since my main objective in the next few work months is to work towards a sort of "Triangle of the Romances" Economic/Science relationship; I would ask your consideration in what we can do to help strengthen The Gaulls position for growth in the next while.

This is mainly an internal Gaulic issue. travellers report of small towns where the inhabitants are in a state of constant strife with each other, fights braking out each they, most of them related to the freshness of fish
The Gauls have plenty of arible lands but only a small part of this is actualy used, they should be able to accomedate 5-10 times their current inhabitants.
But perhaps the Spanish can give them controll of the city of Marsella to give them better access to the Mediteranian seas.

We await your arivel and proposals as we believe the Spanish hold the key to peace and coöperation in the western Maditeranian.

Hadrianus.
Consul of Rome.

	03-01-2004 02:32									#46
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quote: This is mainly an internal Gaulic issue. travellers report of small towns where the inhabitants are in a state of constant strife with each other, fights braking out each they, most of them related to the freshness of fish

I would not be so eager to dismiss the concerns of your neighbors. Our villages and towns are poised to grow tremondously, and they are already stacked in and located in a manner to make maximum use of the terrain, rather than the methods employed by more gifted nations.

Our people know of the great frotnier, and many say, we need to demand access to the Danube, to travel to the frontier, and if that is denied to us, the public will become quite riled.

	03-01-2004 04:29									#47
	Get a bigger avatar today!

It is unknown where the Greek tribes come from. Some of us think our ancestors came from the northern plains and valleys of Dacia, pushed away from there by the ice age and increasingly colder climate. The others claim we came from Asia Minor because the people there speak similar language. It doesn’t really matter now. We know we didn’t originate here. We know we conquered the local people at some point in the past. And we know our first settlements were founded at the southern tip of a peninsula known as the Balkans.

We call this country Greece and from there Greek people spread all over the world. We settled Epeiros (Epirus), Illyria, Makedonia (Macedonia), the most of Thrake (Thracia), Mvoia (Moesia), Byzantion (Byzatium) and southern parts of Pannonia. We also settled entire Asia Minor, nowadays called New Greece. We unfortunately failed to settle Kypros (Cyprus), but we maintain our claim on the island and we shall endeavour to acquire it when the opportunity presents itself.

In addition to already settled land, we lay claim to the following areas: the rest of Thrake (Thracia), Dacia, Pannonia, Krim (Crimea), Taras (Tarentum), Kypros (Cyprus) and Krete (Crete). We would also be willing to arrange a division of Dacia with the Romans and possibly include Pannonia in the deal. No such agreement exists, though noble Romans made two suggestions on various lines of separation of spheres of influence, both of which our wise king Alexandros (Alexander) the Great deemed unfair towards Greece and declined to either accept or reject. But he didn’t want to endanger friendly relations with our powerful neighbours and allies so he refrained from settling the disputed area until an agreement was reached. He left it to his heir.

We recognise Roman authority in Dalmatia, Sikelia (Sicilia) and Cisalpine Gaul. We recognise Egyptian authority in Egypt. We recognise Babylonian authority in Mesopotamia, Armenia, Judea, Arabia and Persia. We claim all lands north of Caucasus. We have no disputes with the Gaul.

Current state of affairs: Alliance with Romans, alliance with Babylonians, peace treaty with Gaul, no contact with Spanish, peace treaty with Egyptians, no contact with Carthaginians.

The map of the Greek world.

Attachment: greece 2.jpg
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Last edited by Ljube on 03-01-2004 at 04:38

	03-01-2004 05:18									#48
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It was during the reign of one of tyrants of Athens – Agamemnon. A group of Greek citizens boarded a ship in the port and sailed under the cover of the darkness to avoid the prosecution. They brought their families with them, because they knew a cruel man Agamemnon was would surely turn against them when he discovers his opponents escaped his vengeance.

They set their sails for the unexplored land of the east. They knew Agamemnon’s kingdom reached out to the borders with Armenia and Judea in the East, but they hoped they could find land in between two great kingdoms – Greece and Babylon – where they could settle and live peacefully. After many hardships, unforgiving tempest off the shores of Karia (Caria) that nearly destroyed their vessel and ruined the most of their provisions, the stop in the port Paphos on the island of Kypros where the hostile Egyptian savages nearly turned them to slaves, the exhausted Greek settlers finally reached their destination – the shores of Syria. There they discovered fertile land by the see and settled immediately. They named their settlement Herakleia after the name of their leader Herakles (Heracles) – the strongest man on Earth.

Little did they know about the agreement between Agamemnon and the Babylonian King Grottencrotch. To punish the rebels, Agamemnon arranged a border between Babylon and Greece which excluded Herakleia and urged Grottencrotch to establish his rule on the entire territory of Babylon. The King of Babylon assembled a great army numbering 50000 men, a feat worthy of Gods, and attacked the Greek settlement. Not even the superhuman strength of Herakles was enough – the Greek defenders were overwhelmed and Herakles himself perished.

Nevertheless, the deal between Agamemnon and Grottencrotch included 10000 slaves which were supposed to be given to Agamemnon for his renouncement of Herakleia, but deceitful Grottencrotch never honoured that part of the agreement. Maybe that’s why the relations between Greece and Babylon haven’t been so good lately even though an alliance is still in effect.


The map of the eastern part of the Greek world.

Attachment: greece.jpg
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	03-01-2004 06:13									#49
	On the Greek blunder.... Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

An excerpt from Grottencrotch's 'State of the Republic Address:'

"...the very sorts of things that school vouchers were designed to combat. And all this, after she was appointed head of the committee on Fecal Waste and Purple Things."

"And a message to the great Greek leader: Your 10000 slaves are in the mail!"

	03-01-2004 06:34									#50
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quote: Originally posted by Zylka ~De Espana, 575ad~ Oh, correct. There's also apparently a Carthaginian dispute regarding a sort of contract they had made up and signed on their own to deal with.. my apologies if this little itch on the back holds my arrival up a few days. I'm really quite good at scrathing them in general, but only when I can reach - you know?

Hannibal shook his head. His diplomacy had failed. Spain had dismissed Carthage.

He sought sanctuary in the great Temple and reached out to his deity. The message was clear. Without solid world support in reclaiming NW Africa the Carthaginians could not become the warmongers of the world. It was a time to bend, to seek friendship and trade.

His people were not happy upon hearing this news and he quickly became known as Hannibull.

	03-01-2004 06:47									#51
	The Colossus of Athens Get a bigger avatar today!

Even though Greece seems one nation to the outside observers, this is not the actual state. Cities in Greece have high degree of independence in most of the matters. In fact, Greece could easily be called a nation of city states.

Each of Greek cities has different society structure, unique among the others, different government ranging from the despotic tyranny to the democracy and different God protector. Athens, the capital of Greek alliance, celebrates Athena, daughter of the supreme God Zeus. But since Athens became a trade centre of the Greek world, many newcomers arrived in Athens and settled there. New shops were opened and merchants from all over the Greek world moved to Athens and brought their beliefs with them. Sun God Helios was considered a protector of merchants and the city started to celebrate Helios together with Athena. Intense trade soon brought prosperity to Athens and the citizens felt gratitude to their new protector Helios. They decided to build a monument of their God that would stand for all times and show the grandeur of their prosperous city. The citizens of nearby Knossos who also worshiped Helios offered their help and together these two cities constructed a bronze statue at the entrance to the port of Athens.

They named the statue Colossus

After this wonder of the world was completed, trade revenues in Athens increased twofold.

	03-01-2004 07:06									#52
	What the ****? Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

quote: Originally posted by Frank Johnson I would not be so eager to dismiss the concerns of your neighbors. Our villages and towns are poised to grow tremondously, and they are already stacked in and located in a manner to make maximum use of the terrain, rather than the methods employed by more gifted nations. Our people know of the great frotnier, and many say, we need to demand access to the Danube, to travel to the frontier, and if that is denied to us, the public will become quite riled.

As I explained in earlyer posts the Gauls are welcome to send a band of settlers across their lands in search of new homes.

If the Gauls want to threaten the Romans or their lifestyle, please go ahead but dont expect to have a civ left once the dust settles........

	03-01-2004 07:25									#53
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

This is the save I made at end of Session One

ABC 575

Attachment: classic_eurodip_session1_b575.net
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	03-01-2004 07:28									#54
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quote: Originally posted by ljcvetko It is unknown where the Greek tribes come from. Some of us think our ancestors came from the northern plains and valleys of Dacia, pushed away from there by the ice age and increasingly colder climate. The others claim we came from Asia Minor because the people there speak similar language. It doesn’t really matter now. We know we didn’t originate here. We know we conquered the local people at some point in the past. And we know our first settlements were founded at the southern tip of a peninsula known as the Balkans. We call this country Greece and from there Greek people spread all over the world. We settled Epeiros (Epirus), Illyria, Makedonia (Macedonia), the most of Thrake (Thracia), Mvoia (Moesia), Byzantion (Byzatium) and southern parts of Pannonia. We also settled entire Asia Minor, nowadays called New Greece. We unfortunately failed to settle Kypros (Cyprus), but we maintain our claim on the island and we shall endeavour to acquire it when the opportunity presents itself. In addition to already settled land, we lay claim to the following areas: the rest of Thrake (Thracia), Dacia, Pannonia, Krim (Crimea), Taras (Tarentum), Kypros (Cyprus) and Krete (Crete). We would also be willing to arrange a division of Dacia with the Romans and possibly include Pannonia in the deal. No such agreement exists, though noble Romans made two suggestions on various lines of separation of spheres of influence, both of which our wise king Alexandros (Alexander) the Great deemed unfair towards Greece and declined to either accept or reject. But he didn’t want to endanger friendly relations with our powerful neighbours and allies so he refrained from settling the disputed area until an agreement was reached. He left it to his heir. We recognise Roman authority in Dalmatia, Sikelia (Sicilia) and Cisalpine Gaul. We recognise Egyptian authority in Egypt. We recognise Babylonian authority in Mesopotamia, Armenia, Judea, Arabia and Persia. We claim all lands north of Caucasus. We have no disputes with the Gaul. Current state of affairs: Alliance with Romans, alliance with Babylonians, peace treaty with Gaul, no contact with Spanish, peace treaty with Egyptians, no contact with Carthaginians. The map of the Greek world.

We are plaesed to anounce we have reaced an agreement with the new Greek leader over land rights in Panonia and Dacia.

May we work together and prosper untill the end of days

	10-01-2004 07:28									#55
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Cesar Pelli is a Roman born urban designer who had moved to Spain with his parents in 560AD. He quickly grew into his destined proffession as a child prodigy, and at the ripe age of 22 now co-owns the nation's premiere firm with architect to the General, Antoni Gaudi



Barcelona House, center of state & private settlement planning/design in Spain

Past the end of the workday - a Mr. Pelli sits spent and tapping a table front window to aid thought; with only his propping arms thrown about the accompanying desk more chaotically than the parchments and scrolls of current work. His partner Antoni walks in with an adveritised sigh of relief

Antoni: Late afternoon, Cesar. Hope you're not having the degree of troubles I just finished over the Cruz family estate.

Cesar softly smiles and slights a quick shake of the head without turning

Cesar: Ahhh friend, if only you knew the stresses of strategic work for the crown. it's quite a lot more demanding than sketching the ornate columns of a spoiled belle's stables, in short.

Mr Gaudi laughs and pours his stressed partner a glass of Ravenna Red

Antoni: Drink, and be not so wound. You damn well know I've shared like frustrations over having my work forced into phallic mediocrity by that third testicle Zylka

Cesar: Hmm, best those words find death before audience, lest your scholar's register be withdrawn and replaced with "ghetto vermin patrol". Anyway, here –

Cesar pulls out the largest of water colored drawings in response to Antoni’s peaking

Cesar: This is the base map upon which I introduce a major crown consul the topic of land claim settlement with the Carthaginians in 3 days. Just look at it (Cesar thrusts the map at his partner like an unwanted child)

Antoni: Oh my… I’m sure those little men will be screaming for your head, on this. But… come now, you as well as I know how unfairly the symbiotic proportions of this un-telling illustration translate to the average man, even one “high up” in government. Near all of your monolith depicted “Carthage” is worth less than an eggshell, in comparison to the rest of the hospitable world!

Cesar: Yes, yes – I’m not playing a color game with you, of all. Take a look at the line I’ve drafted across the northern shelf of the continent.

Antoni: Just under Carthage city itself, with thew 3 nodes near by?

Cesar: Exactly. In short – that is the dividing spot on which I explain to the consul that everything north of, average equal to if not greater settlement value than in rolling Spain herself…

Antoni: Ahhh - and in quick sight, I’d say that area alone totals… 1/3 a greater mass than our nation?

Cesar: Near that, but alas explaining that our complete legal and tiny settlement on the far western sector still leaves their proportional control in excess does near nothing, apparently. More so important in the regarding crown’s eyes seems to be; believe it or not – that mass of harsh and arid land below.

Antoni: And why exactly would that be.

Cesar: Those nodes below you before mentioned, are each MINIMAL representation of a possible settlement that will reach what Spain classifies as a 6th stage city; around 200, 000 in size. This is without irrigation applied, and only showing of the cities which are assured to reach such size. With near 20 indicated, that’s a minimal population of 4 million immediately available in the region.

Antoni: Unbelievable.. near 3 times that of current Spain herself. So.. what direction is your estimation of sought conlcusion?

Cesar: Well, word is they’re looking to settle with Carthage on fair terms – but as for the rest of the region… I think something of an internationally controlled zone is desired, with a particular hand wanted from Rome and Gaul.

Cesar stares out the window and south across the Mediterranean for a moment before continuing

What Carthage thinks of such.. I can not yet hope to report

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Last edited by Zylka on 10-01-2004 at 07:33

	10-01-2004 11:01									#56
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"Sir, the Spanish have built a military fort on the top of Mount Olympus."
"This is an outrage! The Spanish are liars, theives and barbarians! That is the most holy place in all of Greece, how dare they occupy it."
"What shall we do, sir? They are well entrenched on that mountain. I am unsure. But one thing I do know is this is an act of war. Alert the world, Greece and Spain are now at war. Nothing short of total annhiliation of their vile desecration of Mount Olympus will stop this."

	10-01-2004 11:50									#57
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The following charts are made available for the world to see the hostile act undertaken by the vile Spanish.

Attachment: mt. olympus.jpg.bmp
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Last edited by OzzyKP on 10-01-2004 at 12:06

	10-01-2004 11:56									#58
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is there a second session save game missing ozzy ?? i didnt see that spanish development in the save that deity posted here...

	10-01-2004 12:02									#59
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We are still playing the second session. He just did that a few turns ago. The bastard.

	10-01-2004 12:28									#60
	Tsk tsk Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

How dareth these foreigners invade our sacred thread with tongue speak out of this (character) world?!