24-01-2004 07:32									#91
	The Egyptian Question... Get a bigger avatar today!

quote: This trade was apparently simply a business deal, one of many made throughout our empire every day. The spanish government has since requisitioned the vessel into the Royal Spanish Navy for use unknown to us at this stage.

In reply to the Egyptian explanation....

Sir, you have supplied a band of terrorists with an instrument of war, and have done so within 500 miles of the coast of empires known to be at war with your benefactor. And you ask us to passively dismiss this?

It is very unsettling to have a neighbor with no apparent conscience. It is even more unsettling to see the effects on Egyptian Rectal Cocaine on your short-term memory.

Judge your next words carefully, sir, for they will determine your future, or lack thereof.

Pensively,

Grottencrotch

	24-01-2004 07:51									#92
	Secret missive to Cart ally, Egypt Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by Makeo Extract of letter from the Egyptian ambassador to Greece to Consul Makeo. Sir, It appears that we are now, unknowingly, in the midst of an international storm in a tea cup. As you know our merchants are free to buy and sell goods at their discretion. It appears that one such merchant a Tanner Hall has traded one of his vessels for some kind of technological marvel with a spanish national. This trade was apparently simply a business deal, one of many made throughout our empire every day. The spanish government has since requisitioned the vessel into the Royal Spanish Navy for use unknown to us at this stage. Rumour has it that both the Greek and Babylonian governments have their pants in a twist believeing we are somehow linked with the Maveric Spanish government. Perhaps it would be a good idea for us to reassure our friends the Greeks and the Babylonians that the Egyptian government has no links whatsoever with the maveric Spaniards.

Take care my friend. Such an act can only encourage the aggressive colonisation plans of Spain. You do not need to do any deals with Spain, for they are our potential enemy. They had prepared to attack Girba in the last age but the swift building of city walls and vet defenders averted this action. We agreed to NOT use any city squares required by Spanish cities for our part of the deal to avoid a costly war on both sides:
"The Treaty of Girba"
But the world must take great care in all their actions with Spain and Gaul. This includes you my dear friend, our eternal ally who has never faltered in trust or conduct.

	24-01-2004 08:07									#93
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An Open Letter to All Nations
Re: The Egyptian Question

I echo the remarks of our friend and ally, Grottencrotch of the Babylonians. The action undertaken by the Egyptians is a deliberate act of war at worst, and an act of extreme negligence and disregard at best. In either circumstance consequences must result.

We do find the claim of an innocent business transaction to be perposterous however. Spanish merchants did not purchase a ship from Egyptian shipbuilders off in an Egyptian shipyard. Quite the contrary, the Egyptian vessels were present at a sea battle between Greece and Spain. After the brave Greece sailors defeated the enemy Spanish vessel, their celebration was interupted not more than a few hours later to find the peaceful Egyptian vessel that just passed by, to be returning flying the colors of Spain. These weary sailors will find it very difficult to repel an attack by the fresh crew of these Egyptian/Spanish sea men.

Furthermore, it is believed the Spanish fleet was sent to Greek waters for the purpose of providing defensive cover to an additional, illegal settlement in Athenian territory. Due to the Egyptian role in making this settlement possible, irregardless of their intention behind it, Greece has no choice but to declare war.

If however, this is an honest mistake Greece will immediately declare a resumption of normal diplomatic relations and forget this entire situation happened on the condition the fleet of ships are returned immediately to Egyptian control and sailed peacefully back to Egyptian waters. If this condition is met, everything will be forgiven and forgotten. If however this condition is not met, a state of war will exist between our peoples.

	24-01-2004 08:13									#94
	Session 4 save made by me... Get a bigger avatar today!

Raz has played Rome for a few turns...

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	24-01-2004 08:22									#95
	The Egyptian Question... Enter the AD-FREE zone

A portion of the transcript of an emergency meeting of Grottencrotch and Pericles

...indeed, pursuant to your recent proposal, that if met, will suffice. However, we cannot blindly accept that this will be an isolated incident. There are three possibilites:

1. The Egyptian government did saction the sale of a warship to renegades, or
2. The Egyptian government did sanction the free trade of warships in its coastal cities.
3. The Egyptian government lacks the power, or will, to discourage the free trade of warships among its private citizens.

None of these possibilites are acceptable.

Unless a complete overhaul of Egyptian military production and distribution methods, under the eyes of impartial foreign observers, is endeavored, I see little choice but to deny Egypt access to the sea. I hope this will not be a necessity.

But if it is, it can be accomplished in several ways. Your thoughts, Pericles?

	24-01-2004 09:05									#96
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68.145.215.185

Makeo join!

	24-01-2004 09:09									#97
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

I guess my icq is done for the moment.

	24-01-2004 09:12									#98
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

Hmm, these are obvously encrypted coordinates for a joint assault on Babylonian and Greek forces!

TREACHERY!

	24-01-2004 09:28									#99
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LOL!

	02-02-2004 01:38									#100
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

Case Study: Gaul and her expansion

At the time thriving; bolstered by the recent acquisition of three Roman cities through an incredibly controversial war - greater Gaul easily stands as the most infrastructure heavy, rurally networked land on earth. Masses of crop, transportation and trade projects shyly suggest a strong base of institutional support within the relatively large urban hubs, as well.

Yet Gaul still stands in a certain controversy which seems to linger from the 100ad war. With mixed emotions, the world either called for just example upon expansive greed of the Romans – or condemned Gallic forces in a burning Pisae as pure aggressors. While the resulting coup-reformed Rome and most of the world do recognize eastern territorial annexation, recent military fortification in a gray region of the alps seems not to currently help the easing of tensions.

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	02-02-2004 02:02									#101
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Case Study: Greater Carthage – the Northern Ridge

The most densely populated land of all the known world – the relatively thin, Mediterranean hugging strip known as The Northern Ridge is Carthaginian testament to her own policy & culture. Quality, not quantity is the key here – emphasized by rural networking challenging that of Gaul, and a trade base that stands unrivaled.

Yet the near total abandonment of an expansive nature is argued to have its’ drawbacks. Analysts say that the middle Nile of Egypt is soon to take hold of standing in density – with an underdog Spain rumored to have surprise running of dominant growth in such category within the next few hundred years. Extending Carthaginian trade and a quick rise to the scientifically leading culture seem to be crucial concerns for their presumed hope in securing leading power.

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	02-02-2004 03:05									#102
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Case Study: Two sides of the Red Sea

Neighboring indifference marks this traditionally quiet, yet wondering region. On the east is a modest arm of great Babylonian extension – a desert structure of settlement only hinting at the underlying megapower of a fairly dense and resource rich Tigris/Euphrates homeland. West past an arid and empty peninsula lay the ultra crowded – Nile led Egypt. The near perfectly rounded Babylon finds itself largest empire in the world on near all accounts, while modest Egypt commands an impressive lead in scientific innovation.

Yet relations in the area are in outside question; particularly with observation of the seemingly paranoid and rapidly expanding fortification structures lining Red Sea banks - and even international waters (by the newly elite Egyptian navy). Whether it be isolationist stance(s), a souring of diplomatic relations between the two, or outright mutual fear – the world knows not what specifically prompts this potentially tense situation.

Attachment: egyptbab2.jpg
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Last edited by Zylka on 02-02-2004 at 03:43

	02-02-2004 04:09									#103
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Case Study: The Greco-Spanish War

Age old "conflict" which seems to garnish little mind of the international community - Greece and Spain stand at technical (yet quiet) war over two local settlements. While only one was illegally settled by Spanish forefathers centuries ago, both stand apparent aggravant to the Greek ego.

Although Efforts from regarding sides have recently come to a halt over the small "Mont Angeles" fort-turned-town atop of the Grecian claimed Mount Olympus, relative conflict seems to be limited to any available naval skirmish. Yet with the dishonored Royal Spanish Armada recently disbanded for other resource cause - there is wonder as to how the war of centuries can even go on.

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	02-02-2004 09:43									#104
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quote: Originally posted by Zylka Case Study: Gaul and her expansion At the time thriving; bolstered by the recent acquisition of three Roman cities through an incredibly controversial war - greater Gaul easily stands as the most infrastructure heavy, rurally networked land on earth. Masses of crop, transportation and trade projects shyly suggest a strong base of institutional support within the relatively large urban hubs, as well. Yet Gaul still stands in a certain controversy which seems to linger from the 100ad war. With mixed emotions, the world either called for just example upon expansive greed of the Romans – or condemned Gallic forces in a burning Pisae as pure aggressors. While the resulting coup-reformed Rome and most of the world do recognize eastern territorial annexation, recent military fortification in a gray region of the alps seems not to currently help the easing of tensions.

The peace of Pisae must be up held. Gaul does not leave the words of far away leaders to be her only defense in time of crisis. Gaul ensures the peace with her own inpenatrable might. True, this leaves Gaul with the commanding position, determination of life and death, peace and war. Spurned by a hollow shell of an empire, a few enterprising young men kicked the rotten supports of the ignorant and assumptive Roman cancer. Now, the pathetic calls and whines of many nations signal a return to such misguided ways. Peace without defense. Trust and don't verify. Never call the bluff we make obvious with the lack of even basic defenses because we cannot stand the status quo. These are not the ways of Gaul, and no words can alter our views. Only actions. Those who fall are only those who deserve to. Any self-respecting nation would make better efforts to defend itself. We are far from a nation deiticated to merely efforts of war. We are a representative nation, committed to trade and science, but despite all these things, we were successful due to Rome's complete lack of responcibility to defend its people. Only a change in the attitude of the Roman government can correct this problem, because the world contains many villians, and not all of them are from Gaul.

	03-02-2004 01:08									#105
	Inflate your Upload Space

Case Study: Post-War Rome

Finally settled from the ensuing chaos of a disastrous treaty defeat, the Roman Empire has seemingly begun a new and prosperous era. The signs of competence and renewed confidence supporting such sparkle faintly across the mainland core. Near all cities in that area (and somewhat beyond) have filled out to a moderate, yet capable capacity. Industry and mining projects fully scatter a once sparse and baselessly expanding terrain. Trade has been revamped with a sizeable merchant fleet operating out of the Tyrrhenian - while three western neighbors offer comparatively lucrative export option. A more politically active Democracy has been exchanged for the old ways of the Republican elite.

Whether or not this sudden burst can provide enough momentum to carry Rome into greatness; is yet unknown. Significant in consideration is the state's limited room and resource for a commanding population. The equalizer may no doubt be - what deals Rome dreams up; and with whom.

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	03-02-2004 01:45									#106
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Case Study: Rise of the Far West

Small in numbers yet large by influence – the Spanish population scattered about the world has had to deal with significant compromise by the Crown’s historically aggressive imperial stance. Drastic change approaches this traditional policy, however. With territorial expansion halted for concentration on pure population & economic growth; the mainland and capital ring seem poised to swell to massive & hierarchical proportions.

The minds of the Spanish populace itself currently lay in other, more tumultuous issues. Crown significance in the now flourishing Democratic atmosphere has been put into repeated question – the influence of the voting class having even forced recent offering to submit an ill regarded Mt. Angeles to the Greeks. Although the status quo of such (and many other controversial issues) remains – one thing seems clear: all those under Spanish tongue are losing faith in war.

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	03-02-2004 03:33									#107
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~The Crown to Senate monthly review~

All rise for the honorable Crown representative

Greetings to you, elected representatives of the Royal Prefectures. Today we bring (after extensive working and Royal approval) a grande display of our nation's symbolic face in change. As the Spanish Senatorial Monarchy grows into her new needs and subsequent direction - we are greeted by an era which stands to surpass that of imperial structure and expectation.

As such an era begins - a new national sign adequately reflecting change has been deemed appropriate. Such will come in our glorious flag; which before next review will be seen atop our cities, carried by our military, and viewed at embassies world wide.

We will now by contract and ceremony sign out the old Gold and Red - one which pays respect to our needed past of a Golden Crown on top and in direct control of the passionate people

The old flag which is then dropped from the Royal house and ceremoniously wrapped looked as follows

Attachment: oldsf.gif
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	03-02-2004 03:44									#108
	Full PM-box? Change here!

~The Crown to Senate monthly review, cont.~

Our new Gold and Red will now be revealed and signed in!

The approved design is truly one of our future. With the naturally timed introduction of Democracy to our nurtured people - the Red (representative of the Spanish people and their passion) is now coupled in power with the Gold of the adminsitrative Crown.

The dimension of the flag itself is increased to symbolize our coming growth and intense structuring within - a logical progression from the once thin and reaching sign of our imperial past.

All Senator hands on the flag before the Crown chair. To Spain, and her future glory

*It must be noted that the current "people's Democracy" in equal to Royalty is of 7 elected Senators from a total of 4 prefectures. Only the top 20 economic percentage of male society are under constitutional registration for voting; with a handful of prominent exceptions per Prefecture

The flag sworn in before the chair looks as follows

Attachment: newsf.gif
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	12-02-2004 08:14									#109
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Brilliant stuff Z. I think we need another session to get the creative juices flowing again! Well Done!

	12-02-2004 08:22									#110
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

quote: Originally posted by Zylka Case Study: Greater Carthage – the Northern Ridge The most densely populated land of all the known world – the relatively thin, Mediterranean hugging strip known as The Northern Ridge is Carthaginian testament to her own policy & culture. Quality, not quantity is the key here – emphasized by rural networking challenging that of Gaul, and a trade base that stands unrivaled. Yet the near total abandonment of an expansive nature is argued to have its’ drawbacks. Analysts say that the middle Nile of Egypt is soon to take hold of standing in density – with an underdog Spain rumored to have surprise running of dominant growth in such category within the next few hundred years. Extending Carthaginian trade and a quick rise to the scientifically leading culture seem to be crucial concerns for their presumed hope in securing leading power.

Hannibal believes in culture and improving the lot of the masses. Colonisation is a repugnant concept to the Carts who will only expand when war is thrust upon them! Major growth is scheduled and huge metroplolosis will be beacons for future trade and prosperity.

The continuing alliance with Rome and Egypt is playing huge dividends. The ancient decision to allow Rome to build the GL by gifting Literacy and the Republic yields Carthage much the same as Rome. Further dealings with Egypt propell this advantage...

	13-02-2004 11:04									#111
	The Treaty of Girba! Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

The borders as agreed at the tense meeting in Madrid....

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	13-02-2004 11:25									#112
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

For the record in papyris, Carthage has generated 7 external trade routes, ages ago in ancient times. Another maybe generated soon. Only one external trade route has arrived from another nation, most disappointing!

	14-02-2004 01:52									#113
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Spanish crown accountants in Puerto Seville count 3 initiated external routes but must look over Gaul documentation regarding such before confirmation

	14-02-2004 05:00									#114
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Three external trade routes have been created by the Egyptians so far.

Regarding Greek Treachery.

It is clear that the cowardly greeks were intent on hostile action towards the Egyptians. Any pretext was, it seems, good enough to declare war. So a minor diplomatic blunder by the Egyptians eons ago was leaped upon by the warmongering greeks as justification for their war of conquest.

Where stands the Babylonians, who have shared friendly relations since the dawn of time with the Egyptians. We can only assume that the Babylonians must cancel their alliance with the hostile greeks, for who could support such aggressive actions?

So not only do the Greeks find themselves at war with Spain and Gaul, but must also attack the mighty Carthaginian/Egyptian alliance, and with Carthage at war with Greece can their ally the Romans do anything but join the fray to stop this menace to our world.

One wonders at the thinking of the greek leaders, or are they simply intent on throwing the world into chaos?

	14-02-2004 06:16									#115
	A personal note from Grottencrotch's top aide Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

An excerpt from the notebook of Geznikor Whompbukket, contributions by Scholar Mamet

[Quote]The problem is this - I am reluctant to put my name on anything which would disturb the "status quo." I do not know the facts of the case sufficiently to offer an opinion othe than, "It looks like many and right-thinking people are het up on both sides of the issue." But this sentiment, although "formally" acceptable and fine and so on, fills me, as I rehearse uttering it with a sense of incompletion.

So now is the time, I think, to consider, no, not the issue per se, but that mechanism whereby we decide that there must be "two sides to the story," and, having so decided, set out to create them.

Because, hell, are there, must there be "two sides?" I don't think so, for:

1.I think that this dictum itself is a perfect example of one-sidedness, as we're just meant to eat it, et cathedra, and
2. all this froofraw about "evenhandedness" is just a bunch of crap put out there by those who gain not by peace, synthesis, rest, relaxation, no, but by there existing conflict: legions, treiemes, colonialization, you know...

Or that perhaps, there might be "two sides," but who is it that says it? ALL THE PEOPLE ON THE OTHER SIDE.

For, if not, its just, "Let me talk myself out of the things I've thought because I'm No Damned Good, and Grottencrotch is right," or somesuch.

And now you ask me to sign up with you? To throw my hat into the ring and to endorse what very well may be a position which, had I though of it, I could support with no trouble at all. BUT, to be asked to enlist in the aid of one of which I must think - as you are asking me to fight against it, has to be a conflict, in which two positions exist, and, to add salt to the wound, to do it without even having time to weigh both sides; and plus which, which is, to me, the unfortunate, the artificial thing: to get caught in the immemorial trick bag of "there are two sides: choose one." and in all that arbitrariness - this is a situation I had hoped my age and position would excuse me from.

But he who flies from strife just trades the one thing fo rhte other. And here I am lathering myself, in an attempt to escape conflict! How funny!

Now to the merits of the case: I understand them incompletely.

But if I did understand them, or with a blade to by head, I'd have to side not with, as you have named it, free thought, no, but with the Institute.

Forgive me, if you must, but surely that is what one harvests if one sows discord.

Further, I think that Grottencrotch's petition is just a load of crap.

Who reads petitions, except people who thought that way in any case?

Or their opponents - just to indulge in an orgy of indignation?

Power comes from the edge of a scimitar.

Save you breath.

Gez

	14-02-2004 06:29									#116
	Reply to Egyptian chowderheadedness.. Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Makeo,

Any rifts, borders, and differences present in the world today exist because you have created them.

You have given me an thinly veiled ultimatum. I will not have any ultimatums put to me.

Only a desparate, doddering dolt would side with you, he who collaborates with Spaniards, instead of the noble and honourable Greeks.

Grottencrotch

	14-02-2004 06:43									#117
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Such recent insinuation of "siding" between Spanish and off continent neutrals is laughingly received, at best. Although our own crown has even ceremoniously hailed the late Egyptian captain of the traded vessel as hero; it still remains on symbolic terms, that he was heroic enough to disband his crew on the liferows and neutrally follow anew of Spaniards into battle. He was heroic in that he gave up military principle for a simple and LEGAL commercial purchase between two nations.

	14-02-2004 07:53									#118
	Got spare money?

Propaganda spins up and down the Nile and all around the Mediterranian as the trecherous Egyptians attempt to justify their betrayal of Greece to the imperialist Spanish barbarians.

They spread pure lies.

Greece had nothing but friendly intentions towards Egypt. We were friendly trading partners. This is why it has angered Greece so much to see its friend, Egypt, betray us by sending a ship to fight on behalf of Spain in the middle of a critical naval battle.

Our reaction was immediate and vocal. We issued an ultimatum that if that ship was not returned to Egyptian hands there would be war. Our demand was not met. Egypt made their own bed, but is whining about laying in it. Neither Cathaginia, Rome, nor Babylonia should have any sympathy for the Egyptians. In fact they should be careful lest they meet betrayal at a critical moment at Egypt's hands too.

	14-02-2004 09:11									#119
	A proposal to all civilized nations.... Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

Copies to be sent to Athens, Paris, Carthage and Rome for review.

The Parties to this Treaty,

Reaffirming their desire to live in peace with all governments, and desiring to strengthen the fabric of peace across the Mediteranean area,

Desiring to declare publicly and formally their common determination to defend themselves against external armed attack so that no potential aggressor could be under the illusion that either of them stands alone in the Mediteranean area,

Desiring further to strengthen their efforts for collective defense for the preservation of peace and security pending the development of a more comprehensive and effective system of regional security in the Mediteranean area,

Have agreed as follows:

Article 1
The Parties undertake to settle any international disputes in which they may be involved by peaceful means in such a manner that international peace and security and justice are not endangered and to refrain in their international relations from the threat or use of force in any manner inconsistent with the purposes of international law.

Article 2
The Parties will consult together whenever, in the opinion of either of them, the political independence or security of any of the Parties is threatened by external armed attack. Separately and jointly, by self-help and mutual aid, the Parties will maintain and develop appropriate means to deter armed attack and will take suitable measures in consultation and agreement to implement this Treat and to further its purposes.

Article 3
Each Party recognizes that an armed attack in the area on any of the Parties in territories now under their respective administrative control, or hereafter recognized by one of the Parties as lawfully brought under the administrative control of the other, would be dangerous to its own peace and safety and declares that it would act to meet the common danger in accordance with its constitutional processes.

Article 4
All signers grant, and all signers accept, the right to dispose their land, air and sea forces in and about their territory as determined by mutual agreement.

Article 5
This Treaty shall be ratified by all treaty participants in accordance with their respective constitutional processes and will come into force when instruments of ratification thereof have been exchanged by them at Babylon.

Article 6
This Treaty shall remain in force indefinately. Any party may terminate it five turns after notice has been given to the other Parties.


IN WITNESS WHEREOF the undersigned plenipotentiaries have signed this Treaty.

	14-02-2004 11:51									#120
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If one is attacked, all are attacked. Greece joins.