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High_Flyer
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quote:
Originally posted by fairline
Has anyone played this yet? Feedback of any kind would be appreciated, both negative and positive  |
Hi.
I have been playing the scenario.
Comments:
1) Very nicely put together scenario. I like the units, map, etc. It has a very polished look and feel about it.
2) While I have playing the scenario I have also been reading a book about Hannibal by Cottrell. This scenario, and the events, follow history quite well.
3) Is this scenario supposed to follow history exactly? OR is it loosely based on Hannibal's exploits?
The reason I mention this is because in the summer of 212 bc, the Romans staged a surprise attack on North Africa (after they discover the North African Tech).
Isn't this a bit early to have an invasion of NA? Scipio didn't attack until 202bc.
I don't mind this necessarily, but if you intend to keep this the same than I would suggest letting the player know in the readme that there could be some surprises in the scenario that deviates from history and the player should be prepared for attacks on cities etc. This would help keep the player on his toes.
Overall excellent scenario, and I like the fact I do not have to move lots of units. It will require careful planning and strategy to win. I highly recommend it and suggest anyone who is interested in the period to download it.
Suggestion:
1) It might also be interesting to do a scenario based on this, where the player controls the Romans and must defeat Hannibal's forces. This would be great since everything is already here to do this.
2) Do a scenario based on the famous Spartan stand at the Battle of Thermoplyae. With a specially designed map, new units, and events, I think it would be rather interesting.
Great job.
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fairline
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of the wing
Sep 2002
time: 05:17
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quote:
Originally posted by High_Flyer
1) Very nicely put together scenario. I like the units, map, etc. It has a very polished look and feel about it.
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Thanks! We both put a lot of effort into it, especially Pericles.
quote:
2) While I have playing the scenario I have also been reading a book about Hannibal by Cottrell. This scenario, and the events, follow history quite well.
3) Is this scenario supposed to follow history exactly? OR is it loosely based on Hannibal's exploits?
The reason I mention this is because in the summer of 212 bc, the Romans staged a surprise attack on North Africa (after they discover the North African Tech).
Isn't this a bit early to have an invasion of NA? Scipio didn't attack until 202bc.
I don't mind this necessarily, but if you intend to keep this the same than I would suggest letting the player know in the readme that there could be some surprises in the scenario that deviates from history and the player should be prepared for attacks on cities etc. This would help keep the player on his toes.
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The intention was to create a scenario that is acurate in terms of the characters involved, political situation, initial disposition of troops and also set up the possibility of retracing Hannibal's campaigns in Italy. The reason for making the Roman invasions of N Africa and Spain random (with tech-generated troops) was exactly as you say, to keep the player on his toes. As you know the dates of the historical events, it would be too easy for the player to prepare for them and have reinforcements ready to counteract them; by randomising them this is made more difficult to achieve. I'll look at adding something to the readme to this effect.
quote:
Overall excellent scenario, and I like the fact I do not have to move lots of units. It will require careful planning and strategy to win. I highly recommend it and suggest anyone who is interested in the period to download it.
Suggestion:
1) It might also be interesting to do a scenario based on this, where the player controls the Romans and must defeat Hannibal's forces. This would be great since everything is already here to do this.
2) Do a scenario based on the famous Spartan stand at the Battle of Thermoplyae. With a specially designed map, new units, and events, I think it would be rather interesting.
Great job. |
Thanks very much High_Fligher - the feedback is appreciated. As for your suggestions, I agree on both counts; obviously the first would be easiest to implement but I love The Greek-Persian wars era and Thermopylae would make a good scenario. The best scenarios from this era are Helles by John Ellis and the series of scenarios by Stefan Hartel, covering the Persian Wars up to the time of Alexander. They are highly recommended if you haven't already played them.
Any thoughts about anything you would change in Hannibal?
@Cifer, hope you enjoy it!
Last edited by fairline on 13-01-2004 at 18:13
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High_Flyer
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quote:
Originally posted by fairline
Any thoughts about anything you would change in Hannibal?
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I am a big ancient history fan, and have been looking for a good scenario about Hannibal. This is shaping up to be THAT scenario.
I have a few questions:
1) Is it worth it for the Carthaginians to do research? The player is given no information about any possible worthwhile techs.
2) Is Syracuase supposed to fall? I think perhaps Archimedes Defense may be too strong. I attacked that city with a catapault plus 8 military units, and lost them all against that single unit - Archimedes Defense. It is at least the most powerful unit in the game (so far). I re-loaded and attacked the Roman cities on Sicily instead.
3) It might be worthwhile to allow the Carthaginians to build the spy unit. They are given only one, and if they lose it - well . . .
Or at least provide another one via events for it to appear in North Africa for use in Sicily.
4) In Spain, I tore up all the roads and blunted the Roman attack. After several years there has been NO Roman threat to my cities in Spain from Rome - ie Not a single city has been attacked there by Rome.
I keep expecting an attack, but nothing happens. One possible solution might be to have a Roman army appear via events (with Scipio as leader) along with some engineers to build roads (in case the player does what I did), and have this army march south along the Spanish coast. The appearance of this Roman Army could be made to appear randomly, so the player will never know WHEN or WHERE this army will appear.
5) Overall, very nice scenario. This has obviously been playtested. So I am quite pleased with the play balance and the strategic choices the player must make.
For those playing this scenario: The Romans rule the waves. Try to find routes that will bypass the mighty Roman fleet. It may be difficult but it is possible.
This is one scenario where a player can try a number of different strategies. It is definitely a keeper and should be a classic scenario along with BeBro's Imperium Romanum.
Last edited by High_Flyer on 13-01-2004 at 22:44
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fairline
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of the wing
Sep 2002
time: 05:17
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quote:
Originally posted by High_Flyer
I am a big ancient history fan, and have been looking for a good scenario about Hannibal. This is shaping up to be THAT scenario.
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Thanks 
quote:
I have a few questions:
1) Is it worth it for the Carthaginians to do research? The player is given no information about any possible worthwhile techs.
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Most definitely yes. I won't give the game away by explaining all the techs, as they are crucial for the gameplay. Pericles spent an age on the Civilopedia entries with my help, and they fully explain units and techs. As an example, you can research improved naval units and receive the ability to build juggernaut siege vessels - very handy against those coastal cities (including Syracuse if you wish).
quote:
2) Is Syracuase supposed to fall? I think perhaps Archimedes Defense may be too strong. I attacked that city with a catapault plus 8 military units, and lost them all against that single unit - Archimedes Defense. It is at least the most powerful unit in the game (so far). I re-loaded and attacked the Roman cities on Sicily instead.
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As you know, Syracuse was an ally of Carthage and eventually fell to the Romans after a protracted siege. But it's also an objective city and you can be sneaky and subvert it with an agent...... or declare war and have a stack of juggernauts ready to assault it. As you know, Archimedes brilliant defences caused the Romans no end of bother, so I think it should be a tough nut to crack. It's also not essential to take Syracuse in order to win the game.
quote:
3) It might be worthwhile to allow the Carthaginians to build the spy unit. They are given only one, and if they lose it - well . . .
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You're actually awarded 3 agents through events during the course of the game and I've always found this sufficient. If Carthage has too many, it becomes too easy to subvert Roman ally cities as you will find you have the money to do it.
quote:
4) In Spain, I tore up all the roads and blunted the Roman attack. After several years there has been NO Roman threat to my cities in Spain from Rome - ie Not a single city has been attacked there by Rome.
I keep expecting an attack, but nothing happens. One possible solution might be to have a Roman army appear via events (with Scipio as leader) along with some engineers to build roads (in case the player does what I did), and have this army march south along the Spanish coast. The appearance of this Roman Army could be made to appear randomly, so the player will never know WHEN or WHERE this army will appear.
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This can sometimes happen given the random nature of the Roman invasions. I've played a game where the Romans repeatedly invaded N Africa and Spain and then another where only N Africa was invaded. We maybe need to look at increasing the odds of an invasion happening. I like the idea of giving them an engineer for road building (so long as he doesn't build a city - we might have to reduce the terrain fertility values). BTW, If the Romans should take Carthago Nova, they are awarded some juicy techs and you're in for a spot of bother...
I'll discuss these ideas with Palaiologos.
quote:
5) Overall, very nice scenario. This has obviously been playtested. So I am quite pleased with the play balance and the strategic choices the player must make.
For those playing this scenario: The Romans rule the waves. Try to find routes that will bypass the mighty Roman fleet. It may be difficult but it is possible.
This is one scenario where a player can try a number of different strategies. It is definitely a keeper and should be a classic scenario along with BeBro's Imperium Romanum. |
Thanks again High-Fligher - good feedback and I'm glad you enjoyed it
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High_Flyer
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Thanks for the answers.
When the player starts this scenario he is left slightly in the dark.
My suggestion would be to include a small section in the readme with a few hints about gameplay, namely:
1) The Carthaginians should do research to obtain valuable techs - ie better ships to attack cities;
2) More agents will appear throughout the scenario;
3) That Roman armies have a random chance to attack any Carthaginian city, including North Africa. Thus the player must be vigilant and protect all his cities. This doesn't spoil any surprises, and in fact will cause the player even more tension if he knows that he must protect all his cities, leaving fewer units for invading Italy.
4) It might be worthwhile to have a separate random Roman Army attack North Africa AND Spain. This would involve two separate armies that would appear on a random turn.
This seems historical to me. In Spain I was building up quite a military force, and even contemplated marching on Italy via Spain. This would have been a completely separate army from the one Hannibal had in Italy and from the one I had sent to Sicily.
5) I note that there are lots of spaces left in the units file. If it doesn't involve a lot of extra work, it would be kinda cool to have Hannibal's brothers (such as Hasdrubal) appear via events (and named) to undertake their historical roles. I also think it might be worthwhile to have Maharbal (who was one of the greatest cavalry leaders of ancient times) as a separate cavalry unit for the Carthaginians.
6) Finally, what exactly does the player need in order to win the scenario? Mention is made of attacking Corsica, but those cities are not objective cities. Is this scenario objective points based? IE: Does the player need to control a certain number of cities by the scenario's end? Or does the player just need to survive?
From this don't think I found this scenario easy. I didn't. As I played I found myself having to re-start the scenario after being confronted by events or military units. For example, in the first few turns, the player should NOT send his fleet into the Mediterranean. If you do, you'll be sorrryyyyy 
I think a few helpful hints and some overall guidelines will help the player when he first starts this scenario. If another random army is placed in Spain (either in Spain or in attacks along the coast), the player will have more than enough to keep his hands full.
Also, the sounds are very nice. They really add to the atmosphere of the scenario.
I hope you will continue to improve this scenario, as it is quite enjoyable to play.
Last edited by High_Flyer on 15-01-2004 at 01:59
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High_Flyer
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quote:
Originally posted by yaroslav
I don't know for sure, but I bet curtslibling would want Jennifer Aston as some gentlewoman from either Cathargo or Rome..  |
Hehe - Oh, of course we would need a love interest (for the gals), while we fellas would cheer at all the gory parts  (Hmm, is that thumbs up or down???)
Any who,
Just as in the movie "Spartacus" you had:
Rome vs the Slaves
Crassus vs Spartacus
Olivier vs Kirk Douglas
In "Hannibal" you could have:
Rome vs Carthage
Scipio vs Hannibal
Russell Crowe vs Mel Gibson
Crowe was great in Gladiator and Gibson was excellent in Braveheart.
Then add some pretty gals to swoon over our heroes, a cast of thousands, and a handful of geeky computer special effects guys, and voila - you have a major popcorn muncher, a blockbuster hit, and an Academy Award winner. . .
Well, it was just a thought. . . 
Last edited by High_Flyer on 15-01-2004 at 04:50
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fairline
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of the wing
Sep 2002
time: 05:17
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quote:
Originally posted by High_Flyer
My suggestion would be to include a small section in the readme with a few hints about gameplay, namely:
1) The Carthaginians should do research to obtain valuable techs - ie better ships to attack cities;
2) More agents will appear throughout the scenario;
3) That Roman armies have a random chance to attack any Carthaginian city, including North Africa. Thus the player must be vigilant and protect all his cities. This doesn't spoil any surprises, and in fact will cause the player even more tension if he knows that he must protect all his cities, leaving fewer units for invading Italy.
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I think you are right about more info of this nature being included in the readme. I'll look into it.
quote:
4) It might be worthwhile to have a separate random Roman Army attack North Africa AND Spain. This would involve two separate armies that would appear on a random turn.
This seems historical to me. In Spain I was building up quite a military force, and even contemplated marching on Italy via Spain. This would have been a completely separate army from the one Hannibal had in Italy and from the one I had sent to Sicily.
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There are events for both invasions already, but I think we need to increase the likelihood of them occurring
quote:
5) I note that there are lots of spaces left in the units file. If it doesn't involve a lot of extra work, it would be kinda cool to have Hannibal's brothers (such as Hasdrubal) appear via events (and named) to undertake their historical roles. I also think it might be worthwhile to have Maharbal (who was one of the greatest cavalry leaders of ancient times) as a separate cavalry unit for the Carthaginians.
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This is a very good idea that I'll discuss with Pericles when he returns
quote:
6) Finally, what exactly does the player need in order to win the scenario? Mention is made of attacking Corsica, but those cities are not objective cities. Is this scenario objective points based? IE: Does the player need to control a certain number of cities by the scenario's end? Or does the player just need to survive?
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If you press F9 you'll get the civ score pop-up. As you will see from this, the scenario is objective-based; there are 16 objectives in total and capturing 9 gives a decisive victory. Maybe we should put this in the readme as well.
quote:
From this don't think I found this scenario easy. I didn't. As I played I found myself having to re-start the scenario after being confronted by events or military units. For example, in the first few turns, the player should NOT send his fleet into the Mediterranean. If you do, you'll be sorrryyyyy
I think a few helpful hints and some overall guidelines will help the player when he first starts this scenario. If another random army is placed in Spain (either in Spain or in attacks along the coast), the player will have more than enough to keep his hands full.
Also, the sounds are very nice. They really add to the atmosphere of the scenario.
I hope you will continue to improve this scenario, as it is quite enjoyable to play. |
Thanks again - the sounds were the work of Palaiologos. There is a lot of useful stuff in your feedback that I will discuss with him for inclusion
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Palaiologos
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Constantinople, Queen of Cities
Aug 2002
time: 05:17
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Read the posts with extreme interest.
High-Flyer your feedback is most interesting, thanks.
1.The agent unit is actually buildable. Democratic sympathies is the tech name.
2.Scipio DOES appear at the head of a large army in Spain. There are TWO invasion of Spain techs.One is normally researchable by the Romans to make sure they attempt something in the penisula and the other is randomly given.
3.The engineer idea is good. Actually i planned to give engineers to all civs but there was no way to prohibit them from building any cities. The Romans historically did use engineers in Spain as they constructed forts and stuff near Tarraco.
4.Hanni's bro Hasdrubal is represented by the "General" unit in Carthago nova-he was left in charge there by Hanni. I for one prefer that only the major adversaries make an appearance as specific units in the scenario. The other Carthaginian general unit that makes its appearance is Hasdrubal Gisgo.
5.Research is vital. Check the civilopaedia;You can focus Carthage's resources on a specific front(Sicily, Southern Italy, Iberia etc...) to recieve reinforcements, stage a coup and overthrow the Senate and various other stuff.
6.The civilopaedia includes everything: Units, Terrain, wonders, improvements and most importantly technologies. Just take the time and quick read it.Not only you will understand the scenario itself better but you will also have the chance to read about "techs" such as "Analysis of the Punic wars", "Polybius history" etc that have been included just for the hell of it.
7.The city in Corsica was an objective the last time i checked.
We have tried to base the victory conditions on the historical strategical interests of Carthage-i.e Sicily, Corsica and Sardenia despite the fact that Hannibal's army posed no serious threat to any of these.
8.Actually i personally don't like the sounds much-i just ripped them off from other people's scenarios. I had found many other cool sound bits(waves, fires burning etc) but were not in .wav format and therefore unusable by the civ2 engine.
9.High-flyer, the event space is already filled up so no Romans attacking Gades or any other distant city. The way it is currently their prime target is Utica, then Carthage then Hadrumentum. Also if Capua is taken make sure you have enough forces there to bear the full strengh of the Roman confederate army.
Originally there were events for Barbarian uprisings in Spain and i was even contemplating about Macedonian reinforcements but sadly lack of space severly limited our options.
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High_Flyer
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Palaiologos:
Excellent scenario
Thanks for the replies.
Just a few points:
1) The readme indicates that Corsica and Sardinia are objective islands. However, the cities Aleria, Olbia and Caralis have not been given the "Objective" status. So their capture will not count towards the final score.
2) It would have been interesting to have had a few more named units, but it doesn't take away from the scenario itself. I think it would have added a bit more historical flavour.
3) I realize that Scipio is in Spain. However, when I tore up all the roads, and waited to be attacked, the Romans were less than enthusiastic about venturing south. As a result, I was able to build a sizeable army, and was then building a large fleet. After several turns, there was still no activity from Rome in Spain. This could be a random turn thing, but I thought I would point it out.
4) Is it possible to give the Roman Legions the engineer ability so they can build roads, but not build cities?
5) I also understand that the events.txt has reached its limits, but a .bat file could extend this, could it not?
The areas I have mentioned are merely ways to add to an already great scenario. I have enjoyed it and anything that could be added to it will only make it even better.
Again, very well put together scenario.
BTW, I took Hannibal's historic route up the river and across the Alps. And after many bloody battles, my forces currently stand poised outside of Cannae. No matter how many Roman Legions I destroy, they continue to raise more armies to send against me. Don't the Romans know when they are beaten? Hehe
However, the Romans attacked North Africa and took one of my cities there (something I wasn't expecting), so I may re-start the scenario, now knowing more about the scenario.
I like your idea about giving the player the option of attacking south or going over the Alps.
One of the strong points about this scenario (and there are many) is that the player has many different strategies/options that he can pursue. It is like a stylish chess game.
Last edited by High_Flyer on 16-01-2004 at 21:41
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09-01-2004 23:23
I knew the quote as
I was the graphics and unit info monkey, with a bit of text and historical info help thrown in. I'm very much the junior partner in this one. 
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