07-01-2004 03:12									#1
	1st Unofficial Apolyton MP tournament. Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

Is anyone interested in a CTP2 Multiplayer tournament? Format can be agreed once we have 8+ players definitely interested.

Suggested timescale / format.


6th – 18th Jan, Registration / logging of interest, agreeing rules & drawing of opponent tree. Then 1 game to be played each week commencing 19/1/03 until the final i.e. if its an 8 players, 1v1 will take 4 weeks.

Players not available to complete their games in the alloted week will forfeit etc etc (as I said we can agree final rules / game format once we know who is interested).

Come on put you name down / post your interest below.

	07-01-2004 06:35									#2
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Well this isnt the 1st CtP2 MP Tournament the other one died on its arse after 1 round...........

Put my name down, we should start as small as possible this time, not get too carried away..... how about a 1v1? no but i think 4 people would be a good start, 8 if we can get them.

If you do sign up, please know that you need to play at least 2 games and complete them. 1v1 games take roughly 1-6hrs, depending on how equally matched the players are and the map size, so bare that it mind. Dont let all this put you off though, its fun, even when you lose, isnt that right Barley?

	08-01-2004 19:10									#3
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Well, if you can find enough players, feel free to call it the 2nd official Apolyton Tournament

I won't have time to play myself, but if I can help in organizing stuff I'll gladly do so (though I'll be on holiday for most of February).

If I haven't posted a news item about this by this time tomorrow, feel free to give me a firm kick in the butt

	09-01-2004 00:19									#4
	Remove this text

Thanks for your support Locutus. I nearly made it into the SP Tournament once but got to busy. I wasnt sure if there had been a MP tourament which is why I called it 'unofficial' yes it'll be the 2nd official tournament...

I'll see how the interest goes, im sure Toni & Quimby will play probably Cloud and some others (the 1st two are away till Feb as well so depending on the support I might postpone it. It doesnt matter even if there are only 4 of us (even 2, as will be easier to win lol).

I'll probably consult the SP Tournament thread for ideas re format, rules etc once I know who is interested. I should be able to manage ok but will let you know if I need any help - thanks.

Oh lastly, what's the 'news item' bit, where do people read / get news? I only ever read the forums - or is it in the forum and im missing it / being stupid?

	10-01-2004 16:00									#5
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Hey, how is it going guys, am still on my holiday. I will be back playing, starting from 27th of this month, so guys count me in for the T. Good job Barley for coming up with the idea, hope we get some more players into it.

	10-01-2004 20:51									#6
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

Past experience suggest that trying to do this in any remotely formal way will simply make it fall apart entirely - I suggest that you make simply allow players to play games which they agree are to be official, and collect the results. If you try to actually tell people who to play they'll probably never get around to it, but maybe you could arrange a final playoff between the top two players...

	10-01-2004 21:11									#7
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

Toni - nice to hear from you. Hope the holiday id going well, look forward to seeing you back at the end of the month (ill postpone the tournement start till Feb).

J Blytheway - I agree, I can see that happening when I come to think of it. I did want to have a straight knock out tournament though. I know players that will be reliable, im yet to decide but I may still try and go along with my format, players will just have to understand that incomplete games will result in them being voided.

I will have to think about this, maybe it would be a better idea to have a league table(something we could pick up in a seperate thread). This could be along the lines of the old Guardian Game League (if they dont mind me hijacking their formula).

Im not laying down any rules yet and I want this to be a consensus, its up to us to collectively decide how and iff we want to progress a tournament / league. Im definatly up for both, may just do a 4 or 8 player tournament 1st as a trial to see how it goes.

	10-01-2004 21:59									#8
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Hey Toni, we still have a 4 player game to finish with Maz and Cloud, hope we can finish that one.

In the end, we'll get 8 players if we're lucky, a Tournament would be nice for non-regulars because its only a short period thing, but id prefer a on-going league, then anyone could join whenever they want and we can just keep the table rolling, even if theres only 4 of us..... as i said, ill play in a tournament though.

	10-01-2004 22:37									#9
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

New to the forum, but long time player. I'm interested in playing.

	10-01-2004 22:47									#10
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

Hi Daniel

So if we say,

Barley
Maquiladora
Toni
Quimby
Daniel Kesinger

Possibles with Cloud and Maz but without those, 3 more and we got ourselves a rodeo

	10-01-2004 23:16									#11
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

Is there any thing I need on my end to ensure a successful online game? I have not played online before.

	10-01-2004 23:25									#12
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quote: Originally posted by Daniel Kesinger Is there any thing I need on my end to ensure a successful online game? I have not played online before.

Make sure youve got the updated servers.dat file (attached to this post) and replace the old one in, ...Call To Power 2\ctp2_program\ctp.

We may also change some rules, but i think that should be down to the 2 players in their game to decide.

	10-01-2004 23:28									#13
	Is there any thing I need on my end to ensure a successful online game? I have not pl Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

I assume you also have the Activision 1.11 patch (available in the Apolyton Directory).

	10-01-2004 23:33									#14
	Support Apolyton

Yes I have the patch. (1.11) As far as the tournement goes, what is the setup? ie is there AI's?, map size?, etc.?

	10-01-2004 23:39									#15
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Just so everyone is clear, for the knock out tournament im working on the basis of the following timescale now.

Knockout format to be agreed by 29/1/04.

Final Confirmation by each player of their availability to participate by 29/1/04. Ensure you return to the thread to confirm your availability.


Draw to take place over weekend 30th-31st (ill have to think of a way to do this - i.e. so its impartial)

1st round to be complete by the end of week commencing 1/2/04 i.e. 7/1/04).

	10-01-2004 23:44									#16
	Inflate your Upload Space

That sounds abit strict, we dont even have 8 players

Lets just wait and see if we get 8, then get someone impartial to do the draw, (ie not taking part) then its upto the players to arrange and complete their games in a reasonable amount of time, maybe a week or a little over, like you said.

As for rules i think we should leave it totally in the hands of the 2 players to decide what rules they want to play. For example id want to play with no AI's on a regular map with very little ocean, to keep the game fairly short, but exciting...... but thats only my preferance.

For standard rules we should definately play without settlers, cities and advances from ruins.

	11-01-2004 00:03									#17
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My initial idea's for the game format.

Huge Map (land setings to be agreed by players)
No AI players (pure 1 v 1)
Barb settings - No Barbs
Doughnut World
Start in Ancient era
Victory conditions - Conquest or Oponent Surrender Wonders, Slavers, Pollution & Nukes disabled

Games to be played with original version of CTP2 with 1.11 patch. A slightly modified 'Risks' file is probably to be used, the only changes with will incorporate are the removal of Techs, Settlers and Cities from Ruins, this is done to negate the significant in-balance such finds can cause. If your not familiar with changes to single game files dont worry I am a complete techno phobe and I found it easy, all you will have to do is overwrite a file in the CTP folder with one which will be posted in this thread.

Im sure ive forgot some stuff but these are my initial thoughts.

Maq - they were just initial thoughts - maybe a bit strict but its open for all to agree.

	11-01-2004 00:27									#18
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I like the sound of the initial setup. Though it could be a longer game then most would like.

	11-01-2004 01:13									#19
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Thats a good point Daniel and also raises the question of how strict the timetable is given a Huge map game could potentially require 10+ hours of gameplay to complete. Maybe a smaller map or more flexible rules.

	11-01-2004 01:23									#20
	Increase Your PM Length

Thats why i prefer regular map, theres a massive time difference between regular and huge.

Other factors can also increase time like huge swamp/glacier fields between 2 players lol or obviously starting on different islands far away from each other can slow things alot too.

	11-01-2004 05:32									#21
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

I would also like to join in. I have played ctp2 off and on for the last few years but I'm sure multiplayer offers more of a challenge.

	11-01-2004 07:13									#22
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

Welcome EPW.

Barley
Maquiladora
Toni
Daniel Kesinger
EPW

Quimby (tbc)
Cloud (tbc)
Mazaika (tbc)

	11-01-2004 15:44									#23
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Its nice to see how the Tournament is starting to take shape. Hey Maq yes we should try to finish the 4th player game lol. Sounds nice that each two player could pick their own rules for their game, i think it would be much more interesting to play without ranking graphs, this spices up much more the game. Looking forward to start playing, but seeing the players which have joined i should try and practice a little, try to get into top shape

	11-01-2004 16:49									#24
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Well id still say youre the best player in the Tournament as of now, im not sure Maz will have the time or desire to join but certainly ask him, Cloud ill ask too, Quimby is a regular so thats a pretty safe 6th player.

The thing about Ranking graphs is its very unusual to play without them, i agree it really does make for an even more interesting game but its hard to get used to, i know the first time i played without graphs my first game i was pretty lost. We can leave that to the players involved to decide though, but because its unfair for someone whos never played no graphs to suddenly force them to use none too, it gives the other player an advantage.

	11-01-2004 22:08									#25
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

Yea Maq i guess you are right. So when is Quimby coming back, is he 100% playing with us? Best as Barley says to have a 4 serious players and build on that, even with just 4 it would be fun to have a tourney.

	11-01-2004 23:05									#26
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I havent heard from Quimby in a few days but im pretty confident he'll join.

Me and Daniel played a game this afternoon which basically confirmed the decision to play without techs from ruins, i was almost researching Gunpowder but he didnt have Feudalism yet I mustve got around 10 good advances from ruins. Good game though we both had our fair share of scares early on.

The game lasted 3 and a half hours, regular size map, and we were seperated by about 8 lines of forest, so it was a nice speed but decided the tech gap between us was too big so he surrendered.

	12-01-2004 00:29									#27
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

How do you disable the graphs? I would like to practice a little with it in case it is decided that they will be disabled.

	12-01-2004 00:42									#28
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I have to say i dont know how he did the graphs thing i havent inspected the changed files enough, but Mazaika made a patch that would have the following effects.....

* No Setters, Cities or Advances from ruins. (on ''ruins only'' barb setting)
* No Ranking Graphs.
* Gigantic map is 2x bigger.
* Scientists allowed from start of game.
* All but "City Manager" and "National Manager" rushbuy buttons disabled.
* Science costs (roughly) 5.5x more.

The zip file is attached, if you extract make sure you know what youre doing, its not a mod made for modswapper, it will change your files for good if theyre arent backed up.

Attachment: mp_patch.zip
This has been downloaded 4 time(s).

	12-01-2004 03:28									#29
	Increase Your PM Length

Sounds an interesting Mod Maq (my compliments to Maz), a few stupid questions.

1) Why is rush buy disabled in all but City Manager and National Manager?

2) Im assuming by the 5.5 science thingy that this means it takes 5.5 times as much research to gain each advance (this was the stupid question I was referring to in the first line lol).

Not sure about the scientists being able to be changed from the start I think its right that this should be a benefit of Classica; Education, what are your thoughts/experience with playing with this (how did it work out).

On a modification related point, im sure your aware of the City Manager bug in MP games, i.e. opening City Manager to change scientists medium way through a game causes the game to crash? Is there a fix or a way around this?


Toni, now that weve set up the thread to canvas for players to join the tournament I think it would be unfair to restrict it to 4, having said that there is no reason, you, Maq, I or anyone else that wants a 4 player tournament to put one together.

	12-01-2004 03:40									#30
	Increase Your PM Length

quote: 1) Why is rush buy disabled in all but City Manager and National Manager?

Well his aim (i assume) was to disable every rushbuy button, except the National Manager one, so it makes it alot harder to use rushbuy bug. But at the time he made it he missed the City Manager one.

quote: 2) Im assuming by the 5.5 science thingy that this means it takes 5.5 times as much research to gain each advance (this was the stupid question I was referring to in the first line lol).

Yep, thats exactly what it means.

quote: Not sure about the scientists being able to be changed from the start I think its right that this should be a benefit of Classica; Education, what are your thoughts/experience with playing with this (how did it work out).

On the positive side, it did add a new depth to the early game, managing scientists in different ways, on the negative, it made the growth number (the green bar) even more important, more growth means you can apply more scientists with less loss to growth. Personally its not something id definately want, either way is good for me.

quote: On a modification related point, im sure your aware of the City Manager bug in MP games, i.e. opening City Manager to change scientists medium way through a game causes the game to crash? Is there a fix or a way around this?

Hmm, have to say i havent ever had this bug.......

quote: Toni, now that weve set up the thread to canvas for players to join the tournament I think it would be unfair to restrict it to 4, having said that there is no reason, you, Maq, I or anyone else that wants a 4 player tournament to put one together.

We should finish this Tournament first, then maybe we can make a league? Hopefully using the sourcecode rushbuy fixes etc...... ?