07-01-2004 16:45									#1
	Turn 160 : 450AD Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

GoW have accepted the furs/winesdeal, but awkwardly, it seems that accepting peace with ND at the start of the turn is not a good idea. We're getting significant happiness from that war which is keeping our cities over size 10 happy. Was anyone expecting that?

Can we not accept this turn, set 10% lux and re-offer, as it seems that the game mechanics only allow the deal to be accepted at the start of the turn. Or should we take the disorder hit for this turn? We can give ND some excuse for the delay, if needed.

Also, Pamplona is now an ND city. It looks like GoW/ND are not falling out - so hopefully they will go and hit Lego next.

	07-01-2004 16:47									#2
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Or should we just stay at war with ND for the time being?

	07-01-2004 20:46									#3
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Do we have any sort of peace deal with ND? If not, what's stopping us from staying at war a little while longer for the happiness bonus?

Other than that it could be considered a tad exploitish, but it pales in comparison to unit teleportation anyway. Let's not make peace with ND, but send them a note explaining that we didn't because accepting would throw some of our cities into disorder, and we need a turn to sort that out. If I understand the problem correctly, once we get the luxury deal done we're ok, so we could no accept the ND peace, accept the lux deal, and then re-offer peace accepted to ND?

-Arrian

	07-01-2004 20:56									#4
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Even with GoW's wine as our 4th lux, accepting the peace with ND disorders five large cities this turn. We can afford up to 20% lux on the slider without affecting the 2 turns till astro, so we can prepare this turn for a happiness drop the next. I'm just amazed that we're still getting a happy bonus this long into a war where dozens of units have been mashed.

	07-01-2004 20:58									#5
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Both ND and GoW declared war on us, so we're losing a double happiness bonus (unless I'm misunderstanding how it works). And has the war really been that long? It might seem that way because of the PBEM format, but it wasn't really that long. Plus, IIRC, we didn't lose any cities. RP did, but not us.

-Arrian

	07-01-2004 21:05									#6
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ND declared war turn 128, GoW followed on turn 131. It's now turn 160. That's quite a lot of war with high casualties. Before now in SP I've been crippled with war weariness about 5 turns into a cavalry vs infantry war where I lost 20 or 30 (maybe a few more) units in that time, withouth losing any cities. Had large stacks in ememy territory. That was in democracy though. We've been at war far longer, and taken much, much higher losses. And how are GoW hurt by WW when they haven't lost any cities, and probably have lower losses than we do? Is WW only affecting the agressor in PBEM or something? Or is it the effect of having many troops in enemy territory (and having lots of deaths in enemy territory - we were fighting in friendly or neutral territory all the time - do those deaths cause less WW)?

	07-01-2004 21:22									#7
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Who had the Cav in that war, vulture?

	07-01-2004 21:52									#8
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I did - I was burning cavalry going against (French) infantry in metropolises with no artillery backup. Which normally would be a deeply stupid thing to do, but i had 50-60 cavalry sitting around, wasn't far from tanks, and figured I may as well use up the cavalry trying to get rid of the last 5 or 6 foreign cities on my continent - they were going to be obsolete in a minute, so I might as well get some use out of them. I manged to get two cities (including Paris), and could have taken most of the rest if the war weariness hadn't kicked in so savagely.

One of the cities flipped back to France a few turns after making peace, taking another 10 cavs with it.

	07-01-2004 21:57									#9
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WW is generally toned down in MP, isn't it? Second, I imagine that fighting primarily in neutral territory has helped quite a bit. Third, no city losses.

We've lost troops (ok, a lot of troops) in neutral territory to civs that declared war on us. I'm not surprised we still have a positive WW effect.

-Arrian

	08-01-2004 04:38									#10
	The Turn Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Start of Turn and Diplo
Escape out of ND peace offer, and accept wines for furs from GoW
Set lux to 10%

Astro in 2 turns

Sent Gunpowder to RP
Sent Peace accepted to ND. Hopefully that will be OK.

Builds

Diss builds Temple - starts aqua - aqua and growth to size 7 in 13 turns. Irrigation around Diss would allow the mountains to be used

Sandstorm builds library - starts mkt - little food for growth, though could switch to an aqua if preferred - it could sustain size 7.


Moves:

Worker ar Eli-77 moves south

Worker at Blizzard-2 and Arashi-7 irrigate Santa-Ana-2
Worker at Arashi-7 and Blizzard irrigate Santa-Ana-1
Santa Ana gets Aqua and growth in 8 turns

3 workers at Santa Ana-87 move to mnt on Inchoff-4

Worker at Sandstorm-99 moves north

Knights on east coast replace workers near Hurricane who move central to Sandstorm-2, and one to replace the settler at Santa Ana-3

Knights at Bolderburg-3 join south coast workers and settlers who'll be added to Sufa when it's aqua is done in 8 turns.

Cyclone is still going as a two-turn worker pump, but needs MM each turn - alternating between 7fpt and 3fpt, sharing Typhoon-9

Workers near OG move towards monsoon for when it completes its aqua in 5 turns.

Pike & MI at Arashi-7 move north and other units shuffle to relieve worker and settler north of Diss. Settler moves towards Monsoon. Worker moves 333

Worker at EotS to Sandstorm-32

Cats on South coast shuffle nothwards


Forthcoming attractions

Tempest : Uni in 1 turn
EotS : Uni in 3 turns
Bolderburg : Mkt in 3 turns
Tornado : Mkt in 5 turns
Inchoff : Courthouse in 1 turn
Sufa : Aqua and growth in 8
Monsoon : Aqua and growth in 5
Blizzard : Aqua and growth in 8
Diss : Aqua and growth in 13

nice, eh

	08-01-2004 04:47									#11
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turn sent

	10-01-2004 06:38									#12
	Re: The Turn Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by Cort Haus Forthcoming attractions Tempest : Uni in 1 turn EotS : Uni in 3 turns Bolderburg : Mkt in 3 turns Tornado : Mkt in 5 turns Inchoff : Courthouse in 1 turn Sufa : Aqua and growth in 8 Monsoon : Aqua and growth in 5 Blizzard : Aqua and growth in 8 Diss : Aqua and growth in 13 nice, eh

Yes. Me likey.

Posted elsewhere, but what is in the works for Typhoon?

	10-01-2004 16:35									#13
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Typhoon explained here