09-01-2004 13:45									#1
	ND start talking trade Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

Message from Darekill (copy in log) :

quote: Hello, we finally have come to a peace agreement I guess. No GS troops nor citys on borconia anymore. That's fine. I think Zayxus already aceptet the peace offer you sent. So concerning the futur relations between ND and GS. We are open for almost everything. Do you have plans for trading? If so please let us know what you have in mind Greetings.

So do we want to trade one luxury or two? I'm inclined to go all the way for two. Furs and Incence for Spices and Ivory.

	09-01-2004 14:41									#2
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one thing to watch out for is that we don't get too many luxuries: both ND and GoW can supply us with the same lux, while we hold the monopoly on furs and incense. Let's split the lux from ND and GoW, keep both happy, and still keep something for future trades (SP, tech or gold).

It would be interesting to see if they would go for a furs+incense for SP trade, though.

Is there any chance that with all lux, our cities go into WLTKD? If that's the case, we should pursue it, otherwise just enough lux as we need for 0% slider is okay.

DeepO

	09-01-2004 15:31									#3
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With 2 lux from ND added to the temples and markets going in now, we'd get plenty of WLTK, yes - which is why I'd like to do that - more than Saltpeter which we don't really need atm with our current turtle policy.

On the tech front - with PP coming from Vox, and Banking from RP (maybe 19 turns), we're looking at either Navigation or Chemistry next. GoW are closing on Chem - perhaps ND have it. If we get 2 lux from ND, we still have 1 to trade with GoW - perhaps part payment for Chemistry.

Deepo, you're our biggest naval advocate. With our coast sealed with units, and assuming we are to remain at peace (doesn't look like a Bob bust-up is coming), we're paying 24gpt for the navy - that's nearly 500g over twenty turns. The minimum we need is a lookout around Estonia, so we know it's safe to move our units aside to allow RP to gradually take over their sea wall with cats. If we kept six for Estonian lookout, disbanding 18 would give 135 shields, if my maths is right.

The best case for keeping a strong navy is if either GoW/ND fight (unlikely) or we get invited into a joint assult on Lego.

What do you think?

	09-01-2004 15:38									#4
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Lego may also want to trade for Incense now we've made peace with ND - but perhaps we're less inclined to do additional business with them while they're on trajectory for victory. they may offer us something attractive, though tech-wise, as they are vunerable in the luxury department.

	09-01-2004 15:43									#5
	Remove this text

Another decision we have to make, while I think of it, is Arashi. It's nearly finished a Knight, but as we're not moving FP in the forseeable future, I think it should switch to a Uni.

If we get Copernicus, then added to perhaps eight size 10-12 cities soon, and a modest military budget we should be able to kick some serious research butt. I'm already dreaming of Stormian Coal deposits.

	09-01-2004 16:11									#6
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Sicne ND presumably already have all lux deals in place that they are going to have with GoW, Lego and Vox, and presuming that they aren't going to get any luxes from RP, then it might be worth doing a wee bit of city investigation to see what their luxury status is. If we don't need luxuries except to get WLTKD while they need them to maintain happiness (unlikely, I know) then a deal helps them without really helping us.

But we know which luxuries Lego has, and we can see what is on Bob, so I guess we already have a fair idea of how many luxuries ND can get, so the investigating part is probably pointless. So what is NDs current lux situation?

	09-01-2004 16:33									#7
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Wines (from GoW), Spices, Ivory, Gems, Silks, maybe Lego's Dye. They could have the lot if we trade with them.

If Lego are to bleed (which they must), and we're to Turtle, then it's down to the Bobians to take the Blockheads down a peg or two. A right meatgrinder would suit us well, so it may not be so bad to see ND highly productive for 20 turns. Their military is less than GoW atm.

	09-01-2004 16:53									#8
	Inflate your Upload Space

draft reply to Darekill :

quote: Hello Darekill, thanks for the PM, and happy new year to all at ND. We would be pleased to open business relations with yourselves, are discussing possible trades on our forum. Interestingly, it seems that our citizens on Stormia were happier at war with yourselves than at peace, but we have given them a tax-break and promised that they will cheer up once GS and ND start trading. We hope you appreciate this gesture of peace, goodwill, and progress. So we are considering immediate luxury trade(s) with ND, if you are interested, and perhaps looking ahead to a possible research partnership. We are close to discovering Astronomy and have a strong research potential for the future. Do you have any suggestions in this area?

	09-01-2004 17:21									#9
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One second, CH. can we get 2 lux from GoW, instead of from ND? In that case, we should make sure that whoever gets our second lux gets the least out of it. It seems to me ND has more lux then GoW, so if possible, we should have 2 lux deals with GoW. At least try to make the deal for our second lux last, and make sure it is a common lux for both GoW and ND (I mean, if both have incense, trade for the other lux first).

RP doesn't need lux soon, which is good. Otherwise we should seriously consider trading one of our lux, for a ND or GoW lux to RP.

your reply seems to be fine, CH

as to the naval question: maybe this deserves its own thread. I still want more naval presence, yes, not only for lookout, but also for defense. A naval blokkade will go a long way as long as we can't occupy the whole coast. I'm not sure on the numbers, I'm not sure if we need 24 of them. Would it be possible to post a zoomed out map with all our galleys positions? I don't know exactly where they are...

We have to start considering that one of these turns, Lego will have the required techs, and the power to launch an invasion on our coasts. We have to spot that before getting surprised, even if it has a high cost in gpt. Our objectives might have changed, but whatever happens, we should not risk any invasion of Stormia before the advent of marines if we want to keep any slim chance of winning this game.

DeepO

	09-01-2004 17:30									#10
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Our coast is already covered - completely. I'd rather have every tile covered and lose the galleys than disband other units and keep the galleys, and risk have to spend hours counting tiles every turn if someone showed up.

	09-01-2004 17:40									#11
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GoW only have wines as surplus - and even if ND are moving south - as it seems, GoW are not obviously about to come into an immediate surplus of anything else. What the long-term deal is with GoW-ND we can only guess.

	09-01-2004 17:45									#12
	Remove this text

Could we be cheeky and say to ND that our people are experiencing war-joy at the moment, and peace will hurt our cities. We want to make peace, and as the ND cup overfloweth with luxuries, could they manage a two-for-one deal to compensate our people?

	09-01-2004 17:57									#13
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We already made peace, though, right? So yeah, kinda cheeky.

If we can do a 2-for-2 luxury trade with ND, do it.

And yes to the Uni in Arashi.

-Arrian

	09-01-2004 18:31									#14
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quote: Originally posted by Cort Haus Our coast is already covered - completely. I'd rather have every tile covered and lose the galleys than disband other units and keep the galleys, and risk have to spend hours counting tiles every turn if someone showed up.

If that's possible, I agree, I was working on the impression that our coast is too large to cover...

If GoW has only wines, ND's lux will be fine, of course.

As to war joy: I would mention it to ND, but not ask for a 2 on 1 deal. Just let them know they benefit more then we is enough.

DeepO

	09-01-2004 22:35									#15
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OK, message sent to Darekill as above, adding explicit suggestion of a two-for-two lux deal. Copy in log

	12-01-2004 17:22									#16
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In-game we can see that ND have only 1 lux available - spice. They have agreed (see log) to a spice-for-furs deal, which we can enact over the next two turns.